Any net geeks out there...
Thread Starter
Pr0n King
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 26,618
From: The Land of Rocks
Car Info: Turncoat Turbo
Any net geeks out there...
...ever do a migration from NT to 2000 where user accounts/passwords and file and share permissions need to be retained?
I normally just re-create the domains when doing Win2k Server installs (I rarely work with clients that have more than 20 client machines and a couple of hundred megabytes of data).
I now have some BIG projects coming up (old NT servers are dying) and I'm interested in trying a more automated migration approach.
Anybody have personal anecdotes from the following strategies?
1. Tape backup/restore
2. Scopy
3. Robocopy
4. Permcopy
5. Add BDC, synchronize, promote to PDC, demote old PDC (still have to move files but that should take care of user accounts/passwords right?)
6. ADMT
I can type fast - but I don't want to add HUNDREDS of user accounts (with their corresponding home folders and permissions) and gigs of data shares (all with set security permissions)...
I know there are a number of ways to tackle this (I've used many of them) but I'm looking for some ACTUAL testimonials to their efficacy and ease of use...
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
I normally just re-create the domains when doing Win2k Server installs (I rarely work with clients that have more than 20 client machines and a couple of hundred megabytes of data).
I now have some BIG projects coming up (old NT servers are dying) and I'm interested in trying a more automated migration approach.
Anybody have personal anecdotes from the following strategies?
1. Tape backup/restore
2. Scopy
3. Robocopy
4. Permcopy
5. Add BDC, synchronize, promote to PDC, demote old PDC (still have to move files but that should take care of user accounts/passwords right?)
6. ADMT
I can type fast - but I don't want to add HUNDREDS of user accounts (with their corresponding home folders and permissions) and gigs of data shares (all with set security permissions)...
I know there are a number of ways to tackle this (I've used many of them) but I'm looking for some ACTUAL testimonials to their efficacy and ease of use...
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
Guest
Posts: n/a
option 5 please :)
Hola,
This issue came up on a IT mailing list I'm on and there was a stellar response from one of our windows gurus. Lucky for you I saved it for when I need to do this to my own domain(s).
Here was the original question.
"I need to replace an NT domain controller with a newer model machine. I
plan on changing domain names but all the computers and users who
connect to it will be the same. Does anyone know of an easy way to transfer the computer and user IDs to the new domain controller? Or do I have to
recreate them all?"
...the initial responder had the following to say...
"Unfortunately, all the domain computer IDs and user IDs contain the
domain ID as well, so you would not be able to transfer them easily
(i.e. without some serious hacking or tool)to a new domain. From my
brief research into the problem, I have found a tool that would enable
you to do the user transfers (including passwords) for a fairly good
price, considering how many man hours it would take to redo everything
manually. The tool is called Ideal Migration, and you can read more
about it at the following URL: http://www.pointdev.com/IM_descr_us.htm"
...this was followed on by the win-guru!
"You can do this without buying 3rd party software, but there are some caveats you need to consider.
First of all, in order to simplify the transfer, I'd recommend installing Windows NT 4 Server on your new machine, being careful to bring it up as a BDC in your existing domain. This way, you will get it to sync its SID with the PDC and replicate the SAM database. Then, install drivers, updates, server apps you need on the new BDC.
Next, promote the new machine to PDC, which will automatically demote your old BDC. Don't remove the BDC from the network or the PDC SAM yet. What's left is to rename your NT 4 domain to the new name you like, and then remove the BDC.
For this, I recommend Sean Daily's (of--what is now--Windows/.NET mag fame) February 1999 article, "How to Rename Your NT Domain", also on-line at
http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Ind...ArticleID=4784
Sean has detailed the steps very carefully. When you skim the article, you will notice the primary concern are trust relationships, server apps, and services who are closely tied to the existing domain name; while I am not familiar with your setup, one MIT supported such app is the NetShield anti-virus software (and associated service) for NT 4 servers. You probably have this, and should carefully follow Sean's instructions in correctly migrating it. He also mentions others like Exchange, SQL Server, IIS, SMS, etc.
Finally, you _will_ need to rejoin the workstations to the new domain. Typically this involves repeating the process on every machine, but planning ahead (before changing the domain name), you could create a _local_ logon script for each of the workstations that would join them to the new domain to execute at login (albeit with cached credentials at that time since your old domain will be gone, hence _local_ script). For details, see the John Savill's Windows2000FAQ article at
http://www.windows2000faq.com/Articl...rticleID=13524
Note he describes how you can pre-configure the machine accounts such that normal users can join the domain without admin rights. They will, of course, need to reboot, which could also be scripted. With a little tweaking, you can use Mark Russinovich and Bryce Cogswell's Sysinternals utility PsShutdown. See
http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/fr.../pstools.shtml
http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/fr...shutdown.shtml
For other legacy (Windows 9x, Me) workstations, you might have to rejoin manually.
This should be able to get you going where you want. Since Sean's instructions involve shutting down a lot of domain services, I recommend doing this over a weekend or at least overnight to minimize impact on users; and order pizza should something go wrong
"
Good luck and happy computing!
-tp
[edit: fix broken lynx]
This issue came up on a IT mailing list I'm on and there was a stellar response from one of our windows gurus. Lucky for you I saved it for when I need to do this to my own domain(s).

Here was the original question.
"I need to replace an NT domain controller with a newer model machine. I
plan on changing domain names but all the computers and users who
connect to it will be the same. Does anyone know of an easy way to transfer the computer and user IDs to the new domain controller? Or do I have to
recreate them all?"
...the initial responder had the following to say...
"Unfortunately, all the domain computer IDs and user IDs contain the
domain ID as well, so you would not be able to transfer them easily
(i.e. without some serious hacking or tool)to a new domain. From my
brief research into the problem, I have found a tool that would enable
you to do the user transfers (including passwords) for a fairly good
price, considering how many man hours it would take to redo everything
manually. The tool is called Ideal Migration, and you can read more
about it at the following URL: http://www.pointdev.com/IM_descr_us.htm"
...this was followed on by the win-guru!
"You can do this without buying 3rd party software, but there are some caveats you need to consider.
First of all, in order to simplify the transfer, I'd recommend installing Windows NT 4 Server on your new machine, being careful to bring it up as a BDC in your existing domain. This way, you will get it to sync its SID with the PDC and replicate the SAM database. Then, install drivers, updates, server apps you need on the new BDC.
Next, promote the new machine to PDC, which will automatically demote your old BDC. Don't remove the BDC from the network or the PDC SAM yet. What's left is to rename your NT 4 domain to the new name you like, and then remove the BDC.
For this, I recommend Sean Daily's (of--what is now--Windows/.NET mag fame) February 1999 article, "How to Rename Your NT Domain", also on-line at
http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Ind...ArticleID=4784
Sean has detailed the steps very carefully. When you skim the article, you will notice the primary concern are trust relationships, server apps, and services who are closely tied to the existing domain name; while I am not familiar with your setup, one MIT supported such app is the NetShield anti-virus software (and associated service) for NT 4 servers. You probably have this, and should carefully follow Sean's instructions in correctly migrating it. He also mentions others like Exchange, SQL Server, IIS, SMS, etc.
Finally, you _will_ need to rejoin the workstations to the new domain. Typically this involves repeating the process on every machine, but planning ahead (before changing the domain name), you could create a _local_ logon script for each of the workstations that would join them to the new domain to execute at login (albeit with cached credentials at that time since your old domain will be gone, hence _local_ script). For details, see the John Savill's Windows2000FAQ article at
http://www.windows2000faq.com/Articl...rticleID=13524
Note he describes how you can pre-configure the machine accounts such that normal users can join the domain without admin rights. They will, of course, need to reboot, which could also be scripted. With a little tweaking, you can use Mark Russinovich and Bryce Cogswell's Sysinternals utility PsShutdown. See
http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/fr.../pstools.shtml
http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/fr...shutdown.shtml
For other legacy (Windows 9x, Me) workstations, you might have to rejoin manually.
This should be able to get you going where you want. Since Sean's instructions involve shutting down a lot of domain services, I recommend doing this over a weekend or at least overnight to minimize impact on users; and order pizza should something go wrong

"
Good luck and happy computing!
-tp
[edit: fix broken lynx]
Last edited by Teep; Jul 1, 2003 at 04:25 PM.
Thread Starter
Pr0n King
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 26,618
From: The Land of Rocks
Car Info: Turncoat Turbo
Muchalos, Bro!!! 
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
VIP Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,518
From: Plymouth, MN
Car Info: 94 T-Leg Sedan and a 00 M5
I was doing OK until I got to this part
All those acronyms mean something to me... in my job. But if I told you what they mean, I'd have to kill you.
Next, promote the new machine to PDC, which will automatically demote your old BDC. Don't remove the BDC from the network or the PDC SAM yet. What's left is to rename your NT 4 domain to the new name you like, and then remove the BDC.
Thread Starter
Pr0n King
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 26,618
From: The Land of Rocks
Car Info: Turncoat Turbo
Can you hint to us what they mean so you only have to threaten us?

__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
VIP Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,518
From: Plymouth, MN
Car Info: 94 T-Leg Sedan and a 00 M5
Originally posted by IS2Scooby
Can you hint to us what they mean so you only have to threaten us?
Can you hint to us what they mean so you only have to threaten us?
If I were you, I'd stay away from bell towers, grassy knolls, and book depositories...
Thread Starter
Pr0n King
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 26,618
From: The Land of Rocks
Car Info: Turncoat Turbo
Re: I could be missing something,
Originally posted by oldmansan
but why don't you use the Active Directory Migration Tool?
San
but why don't you use the Active Directory Migration Tool?
San
The file server is what I'm most interested in automating the transfer of. I have GIGABYTES of data in THOUSANDS of folders that have very specific file permissions set on them.
I have tried permcopy in the past and it ABSOLUTELY does NOT work as advertised (and a quick Google shows I'm not the only one). I haven't used Scopy or Xcopy in a full-blown file directory migration yet... Does these tools work well in the field?
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,176
From: Southern California
Car Info: 2016 Z51 C7, 2007 Exige S, 2008 ZX-10R, 2016 Taco
I have an NT domain
that will be migrated soon to a 2000 domain, but I don't own that particular 2000 domain. I also have a domain runing Advanced Server 2000 but I won't be migrating an NT domain to it. So I haven't actually used the ADMT as I haven't needed it. According to Sunbelt, Secure Copy should work.
San
San
We did an NT4 -> Win2k migration at my old job (200+ users I think) about 2yrs ago. I know we tried several different methods (none were really automated but didnt involve recreating) in a test environment (tried keeping existing domain name, new name/moving users, etc) and I remember it being a b****. I believe there was a bunch of articles in Technet that were similar to the info posted above. I'll try and find them but I may have thrown them away (since I'm doing more physical labor now..haha). You've probably checked them out but you probably wanna search them if you haven't.....if I remember correctly they talk about replicating the SAM database and maintaining trust and stuff.
A few months ago we just got through with a NT 4 domain transfer to a win2k AD. The process we did was NT 4 BDC into the doamin, promote to PDC upgrade to win2k AD, bring in another win2k DC, then make that the GC and the handle everything since its clean with no 4 upgrade. then we re did all our DCs to join into the domain. this was for about 5000 users with a total of aobut 100 servers (6 DCS). try migrating 600 printers on a print server from nt4 to 2k. if you need any tips or help just shoot me an email or pm me.
-Snuff
-Snuff
Re: Re: I could be missing something,
Originally posted by IS2Scooby
San, you're not missing a thing. The ADMT was one of the options that I'm heavily considering, however I haven't had very much luck with it at all in the past. Have you used it in before personally to perform an NT to 2k/AD migration? Did it work well for you?
The file server is what I'm most interested in automating the transfer of. I have GIGABYTES of data in THOUSANDS of folders that have very specific file permissions set on them.
I have tried permcopy in the past and it ABSOLUTELY does NOT work as advertised (and a quick Google shows I'm not the only one). I haven't used Scopy or Xcopy in a full-blown file directory migration yet... Does these tools work well in the field?
San, you're not missing a thing. The ADMT was one of the options that I'm heavily considering, however I haven't had very much luck with it at all in the past. Have you used it in before personally to perform an NT to 2k/AD migration? Did it work well for you?
The file server is what I'm most interested in automating the transfer of. I have GIGABYTES of data in THOUSANDS of folders that have very specific file permissions set on them.
I have tried permcopy in the past and it ABSOLUTELY does NOT work as advertised (and a quick Google shows I'm not the only one). I haven't used Scopy or Xcopy in a full-blown file directory migration yet... Does these tools work well in the field?
Thread Starter
Pr0n King
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 26,618
From: The Land of Rocks
Car Info: Turncoat Turbo
No, just 10/100. Time isn't the real issue. The pure SIZE of the data isn't it either, it's the number of folders and groups and individual users (I didn't create the mess - just have to deal with it) that infect the ACL's of all the files/folders. *shudder*
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote


