WickedSpeed

I have been planning to buy myself a WRX Wagon ever since they came out in '01 and just about have enough saved up to buy one outright. However all this recent talk about the Forester XT has me taking another look at the Forester. I still need to test drive one, and I will. But first I wanted to see what the general conseus was like for tipping over that vehicle and handling prowess. It obviously has a higher center of gravity than the Wagon, but I like the steath idea, and more importantly, the 2.5 liter displacemet.

I will drive fast in the twisties, do a track day or two, etc. I come from a background of small 2-seat RWD sportscars that drive well sideways. Trail-braking into swining U-turns, using throttle to control full blown drifts and showboating under a full throttle. I would like to continue to drive like that but can this be done consistently with the Forester without worrying about rolling over? If it's likely to roll, I don't know how I could learn it's limits without lifting wheels and probably tumbling off of the road. It's not like sliding which is much more predictable and easier to control and learn from.

Thanks in advance,

-Wicked

qship

yhe wrx wagon likes to oversteer. my friend that also owns a 911s claims that they both have similar handling. get some performance tires a set of sti like swaybars and drop the springs about an inch, any more would spoil the stealthness, and you will be able to cornner with most sporty cars, and blow their doors off on the straights.

WickedSpeed

What about rolling over? Is the Forester's center of gravity low enough that rolling over is hardly a concern that needs to be raised?

Decent sticky tires, upgraded and slightly lower suspension and anti-sway bars, barreling downhill into a 2nd gear off-camber series of S-curve while trail braking - Is this car going roll?

-Wicked

qship

no

qship

if you realy want to carve those corners get a sedan. but the wagons oversteer might soil your bvds. the xt low center of gravity will keep you upright. it is the lowest suv out there. not much taller than a passat wagon.

WickedSpeed

Oversteer is fun. When I test drove a wagon, it didn't do it though. It would just get into a drift, the back end would step out by about half a foot and just hold it. Very predictable.

Wicked

qship

i have seen wrx wagons due 180's at more than 1 autocross. not too bad on a flat unused runway but it could be scary on public roads. it's not a bad car but you have to know it's limits. the forester is about 5 to 6 inch taller than your aveage sedan. this includes cars like the new caddy cts-v. the forester has a low center of gravity due to it's flat boxer engine.
i think that you might be happy with the wrx wagon. its quite a good car with a few changes like removeing the air snorkel ,stiffer sway bars,and high performance tires. for stelth remove the badges. this will give you the car you want and save you a few grand to boot. have fun in the cornners!

inthewoods

I have an otherwise stock '04 automatic XT with the STi 20mm rear anti-sway bar installed. There is no chance that you'll flip the car on dry pavement with the stock tires. There is almost no chance that you'd roll it with gumballs.

With the 20mm bar and stock tires, I find the handling very neutral with only a hint of oversteer near the limit. I'm sure that lift-throttle snap oversteer is achievable, but I haven't tried to provoke it. In fact, I found the stock Forester to be more of a handful at the limit (more likely to lose the rear end) because the factory hollow 17mm bar allows so much body roll that the understeer / oversteer transition is harder to judge and compensate for.

I have done a few four-wheel drifts on pavement and on gravel and was very comfortable with the control. You'll find that you won't be doing much tail-out showboating on pavement with an AWD car. Dirt and snow are a different story

I have no intention of autocrossing and, for me, the extra space and ground-clearance provided by the Forester were compelling.

Even notoriously unstable cars like the Bronco II and Suzuki Samuri would not flip under "skid-pad" manuevers. The condition has to be induced by slaloming the car just right.

Additional information on roll-over propensity is available from the NHTSA website http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2944.html

The '04 Forester is ranked 1.24 versus 1.37 for the '02 Impreza Wagon and 1.19 for the previous generation Forester. The 2003 BMW six-cylinder X5 was rated at 1.14 and nobody worries about those flipping over.

WickedSpeed

Thanks for chiming in, good info in the favor of the Forester XT.

As a sidenote, I have a friend who has a Bronco with cheapo tires and I saw him once get it up on two wheels trail-braking around an intersection corner. I also saw a video of a X5 flipping over, but it was in a big lot and the driver was going about 30 MPH backwards and tried to whip it around. I think it was at the unveiling of the X5. Oops.

-Wicked

inthewoods

Wow, my sister had a Bronco II and I don't think we ever got it up on two wheels, but it definately was tippy.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Forester lift an inside tire on an autox course (ala VW Golfs), but in aggressive street driving they are plenty stable.

mda2000

I have an completely stock 2003 Forester. I put a K&N air filter in, and that's it. Still have the stock tires, which don't grip all that well- traction rating B. When I test drove the Forester, I went to a sub devision with curves that normal people would take at 20 and I took them at 40+. I turn at intersections at 30+. The only problem is a little bit of lean, and my inside rear tire chirps. Might be the limited-slip rear end combined with the weight off due to lateral inertia shift. There is no roll over label anywhere on the vehicle because it will not roll over. If it does, you most likely hit a hole. One problem with AWD, can't do donuts on ice like you can in a RWD. It does grip much better though.

Bobshere

Wicked,

When you test FXT you're not going to like the way it handles. Rest assured that is easily remedied. I have the 20mm STi rear swaybar and Plus Sized to 17" Falken Ziex 512 (225/50R17). The handling now is absolutely amazing. I recently tested a Porsche Cayenne Turbo, for fun comparison, and I like the way the FXT handles (with these mods!) better. While the sales guy assured me that the CT could go with the 911's in the twisties I just couldn't bring myself to push it because you're so high up (like the Explorer I dumped to get the FXT). There is no feeling of rollover fear with my FXT, even with the mods that allow me to take the twisties as fast as I dare. It is glued in, totally. Why they don't sell FXT like this right out of the box is beyond me (PS: I can still SUV with the FXT as I didn't lower it). (PPS: Try the AT. Many prefer it over the manual even though it is slightly slower).

Cheers,

Bob

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/foresterxt/