im looking into doing a meth kit on my 04 wrx. its basically stock with exception to some bolts on's. i want to do a meth kit with a few foundation mods. injectors, fuel pump, cai. i was wondering if it was possible and if there is anyhting i would need, such as, ap/mbc,new solenoid,etc?

 

a good tuner and a massage from azn121184

 

-1 :ban:

 

that did not help at all..

 

ttt. i plan on doing the meth kit soon. any help would be great.

 

You don't need injectors unless you're upgrading turbos OR plan on running E85. Not sure of what 'bolt ons' you have but Meth would not be my next recommended mod to you.

Either way in current form, you should get some type of EM whether its AP, Enginuity/OpenECU, Ecutek, UTEC, etc....

With Meth you will NEED a custom tune to take advantage of the additional fuel & octane. Not sure what your goals are, you need to answer that first.

 

We've got three threads floating around now about meth kits, so perhaps someone should clarify what they are for and how they function. I'm certainly not an expert in the field, but to my knowledge a meth kit is used to surpress detonation and acts as a pseudo-octane booster for fuel; thus it only comes in to play if you have already tuned the engine to the extent that it needs higher-octane fuel to survive or run well, which means high levels of boost, a lean mixture and insufficient (for whatever reason) intercooling. The methanol does not combust or add energy to the actual combustion, thus it does NOT add horsepower (although unscrupulous magazines and web ads suggest otherwise -- yeah, and the turbonator adds 40hp!). To my mind a meth kit is a safety net you add to an engine after it has already undergone significant tuning and upgrades, and then only if you can't get the engine to perform well with normal (91 or 93) octane without detonation.

Water and propane injection are commonplace in turbo diesels, but those are radically different applications and engines. In gasoline engines, not a single production car ships with meth or water injection installed, a clear sign that the industry hasn't endorsed it as a solid path to more power.

 

Methanol DOES combust. I know we've had this arguement before. True, water injection does not combust, it is basically a detonation suppressant(which allows you to run more timing & boost, maybe even a little leaner). Whereas Methanol Injection does both. It adds a fuel (a high octane fuel at that), & it also acts as a chemical cooling agent similar to water (allowing you to run much leaner, much more timing & quite a bit more boost).

Methanol has a HMIS flammability of rating of 3.

^ this means it combusts....

Many run a 50/50 (or some mixture) of Methanol & water including myself, best of both worlds. Methanold OR any type of additional injection is not for everyone. 99% NEED a custom tune to pull fuel out of your fuel map otherwise the ecu will not be able to compensate for the additional fuel you are injecting.

The only way I would think you wouldn't need a custom tune is if you were running really crappy fuel & only injecting a minute amount of methanol, then the ecu could probably compensate for it, being that the crappy isn't what the ecu wants anyways.

THe turbinator doesn't add 40whp?

 

The methanol does combust, yes; I wasn't being totally clear on my part. What I meant is that it doesn't combust enough to be considered a fuel in itself -- you are delivering tiny amounts, as a mist, and only when under full boost. It might add a HP or two of itself, but its value is much stronger in how it cools the intake charge, which is why IMO meth/water injection is MUCH safer than nitrous, especially wet nitrous.

 

Most who run Methanol inject a minimum of 3 gph = 189cc/min, most run at least a 5gph = 315cc/min, some upto 10gph = 630cc. The only one I consider a minute amount of fuel is the 189cc/min, even though on a stock 2.0L WRX that is still an additional 10% more fuel than the max injector capacity.

We probably agree that neither is 'safe' but you pay to play so to speak.

IMHO, Nitrous especially a wet shot is safer than any of the above.

Reason why:
When injecting a 'wet shot' you are injecting fuel(gasoline in a metered amount) as well as nitrous. No need for the ecu to compensate OR engine to run too lean. If the system fails to come ON for some reason, nothing happens. It would be as though the system was running w/o nitrous, the ecu continues to run normally.
note: Only some that I know actually tune the ecu's to work with the wet shot, in that case it is less safe than above scenario.

Reason why Methanol isn't safe:
For most who run methanol, you will lean out the fuel map to ~12-12.5:1 AFR, add 3-5 degrees of timing and raise the boost 2-3-4-5psi. What happens when the system fails to come online? The ecu will still lean out(actually much more than target 12:1 because no meth fuel to rich it back up), the ecu will still add timing, & still raise boost. The engine after 100-500 revolutions at 13:1AFR running 5 degrees more advance & a few more psi of boost will more than likely be blown. The ecu will attempt to pull timing when knock occurs but it cannot pull it fast enough or enough of it to save the engine.

 

Hm, that's interesting. I've got a friend with a turbo'd LS300 with meth injection and he goes through very little of it, perhaps a pint every few weeks, and he's feeding a bigger engine.

The other hidden danger of methanol injection is the fact that you're counting on the evaporative effect to cool the intake charge, but in high humidity you are going to get less evaporation and cooling. If you tune it on a dry day and then drive it on a high-humidity day, you'd get unexpected and most likely poor results. Here in Arizona it would be pretty reliable, but imagine someplace like Portland...

I've seen enough YouTube videos of people's intake manifolds exploding with nitrous setups to convince me that any sort of pre-combustion-chamber injection is a risky idea. No matter how foolproof it is, someone manages to screw it up -- thankfully they catch it on tape for us to enjoy! :-)

 

Once the air goes thru the hot compressor the air will be much dryer than what it went in at, then you are cooling it down at the IC. I doubt seriously that you will see much a difference in the post-IC humidity even is if outside air humidity is 40% more or less. There's far too many people running methanol injection making consistant results, this is the first time I'd every heard such a theory.

 

The person who mentioned this to me actually worked for GM for over a decade, and he said the skunkworks (prototypes lab) worked on alcohol-injected turbo diesels for over five years before giving up on them for that exact reason, back in the '80s. They couldn't get consistent year-round performance out of them.

He's also tuned dozens of WRX and STIs, and said that in his experience, a CO2 ring on the intercooler and 93 octane had pretty much the exact same effect as alchohol injection, without the added tuning hassle.

 

sorry, I don't believe that at all....obviously he's never seen a properly tuned car on methanol then.