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E85 conversion for economy

Old 07-29-2010, 12:46 PM
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Part of the problem with the gas mileage issue is that E85 has a much richer stoichiometric ratio than gasoline. That means that in order to get the most efficient burn out of E85, you have to run it significantly richer (20-30%). This is why you see a reduction in gas mileage. I've been playing around with running a "lean burn" for cruising to try to get around some of this, but I don't have any concrete results yet.

As far as running it with all stock injectors/fuel pump, you may be able to get away with that by significantly lowering your boost levels. This would allow you to keep high load a/f in a safe range. Of course the lowest boost you can run is going to be limited by your wastegate spring, but I think that should be enough.

Flex fuel cars have their fuel systems oversized to handle E85. They also run an ethanol sensor that measures the concentration of ethanol in the fuel mixture and the ECU adjusts its fueling and timing accordingly.


-- Ed
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:32 PM
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anyway to get bigger injectors that 850cc for side feed? 1000cc possibly? I don't want to have to get an 07 intake manifold set up or whatever it is.
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:38 PM
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im looking to also get my car setup to e85 but im not sure what else i need.

my current mods
hey ed im looking to go e85 soon in my 2004 wrx but im unsure of what needs to be done. i know that i need to upgrade my fuel system(bigger and injectors and possibly dual fuel pumps?) i was also thinking of getting a bigger turbo and turbo inlet. within the next month, im going to be doing a timing belt job which includes (trust timing belt, oem pensioner, all idler pulleys, water pump, thermostat, oil pump) if there is something that i am leaving out or missing please let me know i really want to go e85.

my current mods:
cobb apv2 currently e-tuned by clarks tuning on the east cost
Deadbolt 16g turbo ported n polished
area 1320 iwg bracket
565 sti pink injectors
denso 255 fuel pump
injen phantom front mount kit
injen short ram intake
tial bov
grimmspeed ewg up pipe
44mm tial ewg
gruppe-s unequal length headers
cusco jdm downpipe with a fujitsubo legalis r catback
prodrive 3port boost controll solenoid
exedy stage 1 clutch with fidanza lighten flywheel
hks grounding kit
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:01 PM
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I think you're good to go with just bigger injectors and your current 255 pump.
You can run much better timing and more boost with E85, but your 16g might run out of breath and I think 1000cc should be enough for your mods
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:25 PM
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^^^ I wouldn't expect better mileage though
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagleye View Post
anyway to get bigger injectors that 850cc for side feed? 1000cc possibly? I don't want to have to get an 07 intake manifold set up or whatever it is.
We're currently testing a couple beta sets of 1000cc sidefeed injectors for Deatschwerks. They're working on a V3 beta and we'll be testing those as soon as they're ready. There are also options from Injector Dynamics but they require a conversion kit which consists of new fuel rails and spacers, but you also have to run new fuel lines to the rails.

Thanks
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by xhengmanx View Post
im looking to also get my car setup to e85 but im not sure what else i need.

my current mods
hey ed im looking to go e85 soon in my 2004 wrx but im unsure of what needs to be done. i know that i need to upgrade my fuel system(bigger and injectors and possibly dual fuel pumps?) i was also thinking of getting a bigger turbo and turbo inlet. within the next month, im going to be doing a timing belt job which includes (trust timing belt, oem pensioner, all idler pulleys, water pump, thermostat, oil pump) if there is something that i am leaving out or missing please let me know i really want to go e85.

my current mods:
cobb apv2 currently e-tuned by clarks tuning on the east cost
Deadbolt 16g turbo ported n polished
area 1320 iwg bracket
565 sti pink injectors
denso 255 fuel pump
injen phantom front mount kit
injen short ram intake
tial bov
grimmspeed ewg up pipe
44mm tial ewg
gruppe-s unequal length headers
cusco jdm downpipe with a fujitsubo legalis r catback
prodrive 3port boost controll solenoid
exedy stage 1 clutch with fidanza lighten flywheel
hks grounding kit
You'll just need injectors large enough to handle the turbo. You should be able to get away with an 850-900cc injector for the 16g, but you'll have to go bigger for a larger turbo. Since you run top feeds, I'd recommend just getting some DW 1200's. We're actually going to be testing a set of 1300 top feeds for them in the next week. You could also go with the Injector Dynamics 1600's as they run quite well

Thanks
-- Ed
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bwaynep View Post
^^^ I wouldn't expect better mileage though
Definitely don't expect better gas mileage. You'll generally see a 25% reduction in mileage. I have been playing around with the tune trying to get reduce the mileage loss, but I haven't had much time to gather any real conclusions yet.

Thanks
-- Ed
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:48 PM
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I get 3 e85 pumps next to my house in this December Ed!! All I can think about is Beast haha!!
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:06 PM
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i have 3 around me right now!
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:08 PM
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does DW still give you credit if you send in your old injectors?
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:10 PM
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also what about the bosch injectors are they any good?
http://cgi.ebay.com/BOSCH-INDY-BLUE-...item2eaeb81479
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by xhengmanx View Post
i have 3 around me right now!
Did the one on Montague open already? I know the one on Capitol just opened and of course the one on Commercial has been open for sometime now.

Nicole from Propel Fuels sent me a email with a list and their is also going to open one on 1st St. at the 76 Gas station.
San Jose 76
1002 N 1st St.
San Jose, CA

San Jose will have 4 pumps with E85 after they are all open. Not bad, but I mentioned to her the eastside(Alum Rock/McKee Rd.) would also like to see some E85 pumps

Last edited by XxSti05xX; 08-04-2010 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 08-04-2010, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by xhengmanx View Post
does DW still give you credit if you send in your old injectors?
Yep they still give credit for the stock injectors. I believe its $30-$50/injector depending on the year.

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Old 08-04-2010, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by xhengmanx View Post
also what about the bosch injectors are they any good?
http://cgi.ebay.com/BOSCH-INDY-BLUE-...item2eaeb81479
I wouldn't recommend the Bosch injectors. I've gotten them running before, but they run very poorly at idle and low load. the Injector Dynamics 1600's are based on the Bosch cores but modified to work much better at low flow rates.

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