Evo's suck, sorry Dan, but I had to say it!
09-30-2004, 07:47 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by keirnna
Sorry I wasn't being Bill Nye the Science Guy, but I could better descibe what I am talking about by actually speaking to someone in person instead of posting it on the forum. Either way it felt like the EVO had a tendancy to understeer, just like the STi. It felt like it lost traction at less g's than the STi does. Like Greg said the torque leave much to be desired. The suspension seemed prone to excessive body roll compared to the STi. The STi feels like it is one solid car that is well grounded. In the EVO felt as if the body was almost moving independantly of the rest of the car. For a lack of a better way to describe it the sti felt like a solid bone while the EVO felt like 2 bones connected by a joint. On braking the car felt like the front brakes were apply much more stopping power than the rear; therefore the entire car rolled to the front.
For instance, I LOVE my G35 and wouldn't trade it for an EVO any day, but I'll get my *** handed to me on the track going up against a modded EVO.
09-30-2004, 07:54 PM
#33
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I have never seen Sean (NoLimit) so tactful.
Kudos, bro.
Nathan, I haven't read this thread. Seemed like argument bait to me, but I will say that after driving in a few trackdays and autox'es, where I once felt like I was an 'adequate' driver on the streets, that halucination has been greatly diminished. Even further, after watching and riding with some of the better drivers at the above-mentioned events, it's that much more clearer how those guys that have oodles more butt-time than I are just better drivers than I.
Best way that I can explain it is by saying this. Given that I was/am a huge novice at AutoX, I saw what times I was getting by what I considered 'pushing' my car. Then I saw the guy who runs the event in his well prepped 240 or 260Z (I don't recall which) and how much faster his times were. Then I saw guys in their lesser but still well-prepped Subaru street cars (Patrick Olsen in his Legacy, Francis, Joey, Mike, and Sean in their assorted WRX/STI's...and on separate occasion's with Mike and Sean in someone's EVO8) who consistently take 2nd overall, and IIRC, Mike won overall in the EVO.
What it comes down to is those 'marks' that the magazines and TV shows use, like accleration, 0-60 braking, lateral G's....can't be fully appreciated unless one knows how to push the car to it's max in all of those areas. You may be able to do just that, but I've learned that when I 'thought' that I was pushing my car, Joey (Ditchhanger) got in my car with me riding in it, and showed me how to push MY car to it's limits.
Now, not once did I say that the EVO is better than the STI nor vice versa. I can't because I've never driven it. However, I've wisened up just a little bit over time to know that in accordance with the magazine articles, TV shows and Best Motoring-type vids, watching the car perform in the hands of friends whom I know the level of their driving skill...the EVO is comparable enough to the STI that if anyone were to state a 'fact' about the car that was to the effect of "the EVO was 3 seconds slower than the STI" or "The EVO doesn't corner as well as the STI", I'd immediately be suspect.
I've seen EVO's at the drag strip do 15's and I've seen a stock-except-downpipe (that's what Eric's was, right?) do consistent 13.3's. I've seen pretty much the same out of the STI. I saw Mike and Sean whup up on the competition at AutoX. It's hard for me to abide someone making comments like yours when it's obvious that you didn't push the car (like the dealer graciously did for you.)
The 4G63 is proven. Period. The 16G is proven. The Brembos are proven (and some say they even work better on the EVO than on the STI.) Also, if the car were as unbalanced (with regards to the STI) as you say, then how could someone beat STI's (with many of them someone's being really great drivers) with an out-of-balance car?
I have seen other posts that you have made and you are really fond of stating things as empirical. There's nothing like stirring up the waters. What I'd challenge you with is to hook up a little somthin-somthin for the next AutoX. You say that you'd really like to go. I think that you would really be even MORE impressed with your STI after you've had a chance to drive it there, and even more if you allow someone with some tracktime to take you around in it. Also, see if you can't invite an EVO-owning friend to come as well. Ride with him. Take a turn in it yourself. More importantly, see if you couldn't right-seat-ride in it with an experienced AutoX'er like Joey, Francis, Jason, or Patrick. I can almost guarantee you that you will have a newfound admiration for the EVO. (Just don't let Patrick take you around a sweeper. He has a thing for flipping other folks cars.)
If you can't hook it up there, maybe you and I will be able to attend one up at Purdue or on 16th Street in Indy.
Now, I'm about to post an X-box problem question in another thread. I could use your help.
Kudos, bro.Nathan, I haven't read this thread. Seemed like argument bait to me, but I will say that after driving in a few trackdays and autox'es, where I once felt like I was an 'adequate' driver on the streets, that halucination has been greatly diminished. Even further, after watching and riding with some of the better drivers at the above-mentioned events, it's that much more clearer how those guys that have oodles more butt-time than I are just better drivers than I.
Best way that I can explain it is by saying this. Given that I was/am a huge novice at AutoX, I saw what times I was getting by what I considered 'pushing' my car. Then I saw the guy who runs the event in his well prepped 240 or 260Z (I don't recall which) and how much faster his times were. Then I saw guys in their lesser but still well-prepped Subaru street cars (Patrick Olsen in his Legacy, Francis, Joey, Mike, and Sean in their assorted WRX/STI's...and on separate occasion's with Mike and Sean in someone's EVO8) who consistently take 2nd overall, and IIRC, Mike won overall in the EVO.
What it comes down to is those 'marks' that the magazines and TV shows use, like accleration, 0-60 braking, lateral G's....can't be fully appreciated unless one knows how to push the car to it's max in all of those areas. You may be able to do just that, but I've learned that when I 'thought' that I was pushing my car, Joey (Ditchhanger) got in my car with me riding in it, and showed me how to push MY car to it's limits.
Now, not once did I say that the EVO is better than the STI nor vice versa. I can't because I've never driven it. However, I've wisened up just a little bit over time to know that in accordance with the magazine articles, TV shows and Best Motoring-type vids, watching the car perform in the hands of friends whom I know the level of their driving skill...the EVO is comparable enough to the STI that if anyone were to state a 'fact' about the car that was to the effect of "the EVO was 3 seconds slower than the STI" or "The EVO doesn't corner as well as the STI", I'd immediately be suspect.
I've seen EVO's at the drag strip do 15's and I've seen a stock-except-downpipe (that's what Eric's was, right?) do consistent 13.3's. I've seen pretty much the same out of the STI. I saw Mike and Sean whup up on the competition at AutoX. It's hard for me to abide someone making comments like yours when it's obvious that you didn't push the car (like the dealer graciously did for you.
)The 4G63 is proven. Period. The 16G is proven. The Brembos are proven (and some say they even work better on the EVO than on the STI.) Also, if the car were as unbalanced (with regards to the STI) as you say, then how could someone beat STI's (with many of them someone's being really great drivers) with an out-of-balance car?
I have seen other posts that you have made and you are really fond of stating things as empirical. There's nothing like stirring up the waters. What I'd challenge you with is to hook up a little somthin-somthin for the next AutoX. You say that you'd really like to go. I think that you would really be even MORE impressed with your STI after you've had a chance to drive it there, and even more if you allow someone with some tracktime to take you around in it. Also, see if you can't invite an EVO-owning friend to come as well. Ride with him. Take a turn in it yourself. More importantly, see if you couldn't right-seat-ride in it with an experienced AutoX'er like Joey, Francis, Jason, or Patrick. I can almost guarantee you that you will have a newfound admiration for the EVO. (Just don't let Patrick take you around a sweeper. He has a thing for flipping other folks cars.
)If you can't hook it up there, maybe you and I will be able to attend one up at Purdue or on 16th Street in Indy.
Now, I'm about to post an X-box problem question in another thread. I could use your help.
09-30-2004, 07:58 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by keirnna
I have yet to go to any AutoX's, but the second I have a chance I'll be in one.
The next Auto-X is THIS sunday. So it is safe to assume that you will be attending then? I will be there and would like to witness your "hardcore" driving.
09-30-2004, 08:05 PM
#36
AUTOCROSs
YIPPIE!!!! AutoX this sunday. What's up w/ the EVO guys. There isn't even 1 EVO who is out there using the car for what it's designed for.
Damn, just wished that Tire Rack would get their back order of V700's filled.
Vern, might be picking up a used crashed 86 NA MR2. What parts do you need. Let me know before I decide to buy it.
LaR
Damn, just wished that Tire Rack would get their back order of V700's filled.
Vern, might be picking up a used crashed 86 NA MR2. What parts do you need. Let me know before I decide to buy it.
LaR
09-30-2004, 08:08 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by islandx
I think we can all agree that the Mitsubishi dealer here sucks.
Could you please explain how your STI handles U turns ? I think you were experiencing oversteer with the EVO and over correcting, thereby causing said "lack of control" From my understanding many people can't handle the EVO's quick steering and tend to put perfectly good cars into ditches/walls/showrooms, etc.
Could you please explain how your STI handles U turns ? I think you were experiencing oversteer with the EVO and over correcting, thereby causing said "lack of control" From my understanding many people can't handle the EVO's quick steering and tend to put perfectly good cars into ditches/walls/showrooms, etc.
EXACTLY.. COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF!!!
09-30-2004, 08:33 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by Scubaru
The next Auto-X is THIS sunday. So it is safe to assume that you will be attending then? I will be there and would like to witness your "hardcore" driving.
09-30-2004, 08:38 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Scubaru
I hope not, as the UK spec Focus RS OWNS... 
09-30-2004, 08:52 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by WRX151
YIPPIE!!!! AutoX this sunday. What's up w/ the EVO guys. There isn't even 1 EVO who is out there using the car for what it's designed for.
Damn, just wished that Tire Rack would get their back order of V700's filled.
Vern, might be picking up a used crashed 86 NA MR2. What parts do you need. Let me know before I decide to buy it.
LaR
Damn, just wished that Tire Rack would get their back order of V700's filled.
Vern, might be picking up a used crashed 86 NA MR2. What parts do you need. Let me know before I decide to buy it.
LaR
09-30-2004, 08:58 PM
#42
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Look yes we've heard many good things about the EVO 8, and I'd agree its getting alot of props on U.S. soil and abroad. I also got to drive the dealer ship EVO, I say "Dealership EVO" because it sucked. The dealer pushed it then I pushed it. Now he really sucked at driving but thats not my point. I wont say am a pro driver but am better than alot of other people. And if you feel the need to test well come test. Thats another matter though, my point still stands. Just like some STI owners\drivers that are actually going down to the track to see what kind of performance they can get from a car they spent so much money on. They wanted a car with performance and not a car to show off with. I know you've heard it before as gay as it sounds. "It's not how you stand by your car its how you drive it". You might be asking how does this relate to the EVO thing. I dont know I was just pissed cause you never know what kind of crap comes out of the Mitsu dealer ship here.
09-30-2004, 08:59 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by keirnna
I'll be there! What do I need to bring and where can I get some more information on it? I can't wait. I don't even care if I am the slowest guy out there I just want to ahve some fun. Please email me any info to keirnna@gmail.com. Thanks for telling me about this autoX. One more question do I need to be an SCCA member or anything like that?
just be at tracks 8am to get checked in and tech. not sure on your class, but at least you can walk the course some and see how cars take some turns.
if you have a helmet, bring it and hope that it passes tech, if not, then you can use the loaner. shoes, suntan lotion are musts with water. oh yeah, if you are messy like me, empty your car out the night before.
info at
sccahawaii.org
be sure to look at the event changes on the web site.
b
09-30-2004, 09:03 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by Nolimit
.......
Second, the EVO spanks the STi on the "track" all the time. Hell, the EVO is killing supercars on the race track. As a matter of fact, the Cyber EVO is breaking long standing track records on American soil.
Now, don't get me wrong, the STi is a Wonderful car, but so is the EVO.
<snip>
Of course, it is good to get many people's opinions about big purchases like these, but I think more care should be used in what is said or claimed.
again, just my 2¢
Sean
oh, so how's everybody doing over there?
Second, the EVO spanks the STi on the "track" all the time. Hell, the EVO is killing supercars on the race track. As a matter of fact, the Cyber EVO is breaking long standing track records on American soil.
Now, don't get me wrong, the STi is a Wonderful car, but so is the EVO.
<snip>
Of course, it is good to get many people's opinions about big purchases like these, but I think more care should be used in what is said or claimed.
again, just my 2¢
Sean
oh, so how's everybody doing over there?
Totally agree. The Evo is a nice piece of driving machinery and would be in my garage right now if not for the stupid dealership here. I have considered going on a little trip to the mainland to pick one up but I think I'll wait a while and see how the MR looks.
Sean, things are okay here. Lots of new faces in HIIC. Hope things are going well for you in San Diego. Do they still Auto-X over at Qualcom stadium? If so you might run into a couple MR-2 buddies of mine, Randy Chase and Dave Hawkins. Tell 'em I said "howzit" if you see 'em.
-Dean
09-30-2004, 09:28 PM
#45
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Comparing
apples to oranges in my mind. Like comparing a WRX to an STI. Totally different cars. I got a ride at the track in an STI, after racing all day in my stock turbo WRX. I couldn't believe that I was faster than all but one STI (Egmar by 0.007 of a second) in my WRX. Considering the stickier STI tires, we were very well matched (and Egmar can drive). My WRX didn't "pin me back" in the seat like the STI. But I don't have to shift every other second either. No kidding, the pin you to the back of the seat value is very misleading. When I was at the track with Mike (STI), we were literally running the same times until I cooked my brakes. Sean (NoLimit) can be brutal on this board, but he has a point when he questions the fact that it may be more driver related than car related when you say the EVO sucks and the STI rules. I saw him at Auto-X with the EVO and the EVO handles great (if a bit quick). The EVO can also be made considerably faster with very little money. Iron block, FMIC, and red Brembos (I'm not a fan of the gold) are nice too. I like Auto-X, but consider open track the real test of a car. Auto-X lasts less than a minute. 15 to 20 minutes lapping sessions will test your abilities (and your car's).
San
San