need advice on Heel and toe technique
04-29-2004, 03:49 AM
#1
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need advice on Heel and toe technique
Hey guys..... I was just wondering something about the heel and toe technique. Most people say that you should press the clutch, shift to neutral, brake, then lift the clutch and blip the throttle.
My question is... why can't I just skip the 'shift to neutral' part and just press the clutch while braking, and with the clutch STILL pressed, blip the throttle... then switch to a lower gear and then only release the throttle???
This seems to be a much simpler way of doing it. Is there any importance in shifting to neutral first, and lifting the throttle before blipping the throttle? I don't see the point in lifting the clutch because if I just kept my foot on the clutch all the time, with the gear NOT in neutral, no power would be transferred anyway, right??
My question is... why can't I just skip the 'shift to neutral' part and just press the clutch while braking, and with the clutch STILL pressed, blip the throttle... then switch to a lower gear and then only release the throttle???
This seems to be a much simpler way of doing it. Is there any importance in shifting to neutral first, and lifting the throttle before blipping the throttle? I don't see the point in lifting the clutch because if I just kept my foot on the clutch all the time, with the gear NOT in neutral, no power would be transferred anyway, right??
04-29-2004, 08:02 AM
#3
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Car Info: 2002 Honda S2000
Your method as stated above is about double clutching, heal toe, is where you are braking, with the clutch in and also pressing the gas at the same time, hence "Heal" "Toe" heal on the gas toe on the brake. This is good to keep the rpms up while braking around a curve or whatever.
04-29-2004, 08:41 PM
#7
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If you use those techniques your syncros will live longer. I haven't heard of that being an issue with the WRX (or any other modern) transmission but if you plan to keep the car for 4-5+ years and driving it hard often, you may want to make it a habit.
04-30-2004, 02:54 AM
#9
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Location: Foster City, CA
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Car Info: sonic yellow 03 WRX sedan
You have to let go of the clutch to blip the throttle because you are trying to match the speed of the gear you are trying to downshift to (always dependent on the speed of the drivetrain) with the speed of the synchro on the flywheel side of the transmission (dependent on the speed of the engine when clutch is engaged). You perform this step in neutral because you are trying to alter only the flywheel side of the synchro.
If you don't engage the clutch before reving your engine, you won't actually spin the synchro (i.e: only the flywheel). Proper double clutching decreases wear on the synchro because the two rotating sides of the synchro previously operating at vastly different speeds are now already almost in sync as you engage the clutch with the transmission in gear.
Heel and toe is essentially double clutching while braking simultaneously.
If you don't engage the clutch before reving your engine, you won't actually spin the synchro (i.e: only the flywheel). Proper double clutching decreases wear on the synchro because the two rotating sides of the synchro previously operating at vastly different speeds are now already almost in sync as you engage the clutch with the transmission in gear.
Heel and toe is essentially double clutching while braking simultaneously.
04-30-2004, 01:33 PM
#10
you dont put it in neutral
heel and toe is for downshifting under hard braking.
for example, 3ed to 2nd heel and toe would be
3rd gear - braking - cltuch in,gas to match the rev,shift at the same time while still braking - 2nd gear still braking
double clutch is mainly for upshift
2nd gear acceleration, clutch in, shift to neutral, gas, clutch in,, shift to 3rd, 3rd gear acceleration
it'll releave the stress of upshift and protects transmission.
no rev match upshift = upshift kirp = stress to tranny,
you wont need to do this technique unless you are doing endurance race or when the tranny is about to die
heel and toe is for downshifting under hard braking.
for example, 3ed to 2nd heel and toe would be
3rd gear - braking - cltuch in,gas to match the rev,shift at the same time while still braking - 2nd gear still braking
double clutch is mainly for upshift
2nd gear acceleration, clutch in, shift to neutral, gas, clutch in,, shift to 3rd, 3rd gear acceleration
it'll releave the stress of upshift and protects transmission.
no rev match upshift = upshift kirp = stress to tranny,
you wont need to do this technique unless you are doing endurance race or when the tranny is about to die
04-30-2004, 10:03 PM
#11
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Boston
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I have never heard of double clutching for upshifts. If you shift quickly it seems unneccesary since everything is rev matched, you know this by the smoothness of the clutch engagement in the next gear.
05-03-2004, 12:06 AM
#12
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Kailua
Posts: 207
Car Info: Bugeye
Originally posted by go go go
double clutch is mainly for upshift
2nd gear acceleration, clutch in, shift to neutral, gas, clutch in,, shift to 3rd, 3rd gear acceleration
it'll releave the stress of upshift and protects transmission.
no rev match upshift = upshift kirp = stress to tranny,
you wont need to do this technique unless you are doing endurance race or when the tranny is about to die
double clutch is mainly for upshift
2nd gear acceleration, clutch in, shift to neutral, gas, clutch in,, shift to 3rd, 3rd gear acceleration
it'll releave the stress of upshift and protects transmission.
no rev match upshift = upshift kirp = stress to tranny,
you wont need to do this technique unless you are doing endurance race or when the tranny is about to die
TVA
AHHHHH I hate that quote!!!!! lol
05-03-2004, 03:27 PM
#14
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it also helps to have size 11 1/2 eee feet. the year my wife and i got married we bought a 1971 bmw 2002. the 3 of us are still together. the 4 speed tranys were strong but the syncros are week. any one owning a 2002 learns to double clutch. the heal&toe comes in so you can push in the clutch heal the brake (to slow down the car) and toe the gas to match the revs to the next lower gear. bliping the gas pedal is only till you get to learn what rpm is needed to match the lower gear to the speed you are going. now on the xt i will double clutch when there is a large speed drop, like end of off ramp. practice! when you get it all together it will give you lots-0-smiles.
manual transmission 101