FWD can match AWD?
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Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Coquitlam
Car Info: 1985 Corolla AE82 FWD
FWD can match AWD?
*puts flame suit on*
okay, before I start a war and get an ****-whoopin, when I'm asking whether FWD can match AWD, I'm talking more about the understeer/oversteer elements of a car.
I know that AWD will still best FWD in snow, so I'm looking more for performance aspects in the dry (and perhaps even rain).
FWD has a tendency to understeer while AWD tends to have both mild understeer and oversteer. My question is this: Can a FWD be tuned (suspension-wise) so that it can have oversteer instead of understeer at the critical point (or can it be tuned so that it doesn't understeer in every corner)?
and how?
okay, before I start a war and get an ****-whoopin, when I'm asking whether FWD can match AWD, I'm talking more about the understeer/oversteer elements of a car.
I know that AWD will still best FWD in snow, so I'm looking more for performance aspects in the dry (and perhaps even rain).
FWD has a tendency to understeer while AWD tends to have both mild understeer and oversteer. My question is this: Can a FWD be tuned (suspension-wise) so that it can have oversteer instead of understeer at the critical point (or can it be tuned so that it doesn't understeer in every corner)?
and how?
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From: Mountains
Car Info: 2007 Nissan Frontier
FWD will have understeer.. thats just the nature of having the front wheels drive the car. No matter what you do you will still have understear.
Now AWD's understear and overstear can be handled with LSD's and Suspension tuning.
Cheers
-Jeff
Now AWD's understear and overstear can be handled with LSD's and Suspension tuning.
Cheers
-Jeff
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FWD no matter how well tuned will always have a disadvantage in that while FWD will ALWAYS put all the power to the front wheels promoting understeer, an AWD car can be dialed to have a rearward bias to make it perform more like a RWD car and eliminate most if not all understeer. So all things being equal (emphasis on that!!!) AWD will always be faster round the corners.
-DE
-DE
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From: my home is Portland but I'm @ School in Seattle
Car Info: 1998 Subaru Legacy L 5-speed
speaking from experience, FWD sucks in the rain. E-brake turns will do the trick but dont help you go much faster, its just more enjoyable then terminal understeer. AWD has been much more pleasing to drive. In the rain a few days I had a nice power slide out of the gas station. Much better than my old FWD beater could muster.
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Its not the car really. At a competition point of view with 2 fully race preped cars, one awd and one fwd, it is too hard to say. A driver who normally races awd cars will take a line on the track and the fwd driver will do the same but most likely their line will be different in nearly every turn. Its really all on driver when u have race preped cars.
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kinda depends on the car. subys understeer hard. my talon tsi (2wd) however does not. with my yokos it really sticks, no noticable understeer, unless waay too fast on wet road. but on dirt it reacts quite well. on the throttle it will power through the corners. let off and all the weight comes back to the front and the *** will slide out hard. just depends on the car.
-PJ
p.s. not bashing on the scoobs, i love 'em! i have a lot of experience driving all models, in all conditions.
-PJ
p.s. not bashing on the scoobs, i love 'em! i have a lot of experience driving all models, in all conditions.
Last edited by X1_SRT; Oct 22, 2003 at 09:56 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Western Washington
Car Info: i drive a beater
Yes, you can dial understeer out of a FWD via suspension settings. But doing this will NOT make it behave like a RWD car. It will just make it drive differently.
Take a look at the integra type Rs that we had (back when they were available ONLY in championship white). That was a VERY dialed in car from the factory, very neutral handling.
edit:
Are we talking about AT THE LIMIT driving with fully prepped cars or are we talking about something that would be daily driven in normal conditions?
Take a look at the integra type Rs that we had (back when they were available ONLY in championship white). That was a VERY dialed in car from the factory, very neutral handling.
edit:
Are we talking about AT THE LIMIT driving with fully prepped cars or are we talking about something that would be daily driven in normal conditions?
Last edited by Jgrahn555; Oct 22, 2003 at 11:11 AM.
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The 2 main factors that lead to understeer in FWD cars are: 1. Weight distribution, most are around 60/40 +/- due to the engine typically hanging out over the front axle. 2. Front wheels are being asked to steer as well as propel. Obviously understeer can be tuned out to a degree with suspension etc. but these are the 2 fundamental problems with the format that lead to understeer. Look to point 1 for the main reason why our cars understeer.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Coquitlam
Car Info: 1985 Corolla AE82 FWD
Originally posted by Jgrahn555
Are we talking about AT THE LIMIT driving with fully prepped cars or are we talking about something that would be daily driven in normal conditions?
Are we talking about AT THE LIMIT driving with fully prepped cars or are we talking about something that would be daily driven in normal conditions?
I think in daily driving (in city anyways), drivetrain doesn't make a huge huge different.
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AWD always makes a difference, until you let off the throttle 
Anyway, a good handling FWD car can generally have a deeper and faster entry speed to a corner, but their exit speeds are poor. With AWD, our exit speeds are much better, actually our power right before and all after an apex is what really makes AWD shine in terms of handling. With FWD, you can not get on the gas like we do (or at least I know I do)
Anyway, a good handling FWD car can generally have a deeper and faster entry speed to a corner, but their exit speeds are poor. With AWD, our exit speeds are much better, actually our power right before and all after an apex is what really makes AWD shine in terms of handling. With FWD, you can not get on the gas like we do (or at least I know I do)
Last edited by Kostamojen; Oct 22, 2003 at 10:39 PM.
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From: Cincinnati, OH
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Going back to your original question, why would you want a FWD car to have oversteer? You would want it to be as neutral as possible, otherwise you would throw it into a corner and continuously lose the back end with no way of correcting it. Just nit picking here.
X1_SRT you actually have a 2G TSI that is FWD. Those are pretty rare.
X1_SRT you actually have a 2G TSI that is FWD. Those are pretty rare.
it would be hard, maybe even impossible(correct me if im wrong). to oversteer a fwd since the power is on the front and not on the back. Probably can if you had some bad tires in the back wheels. And yea.. Front wheels might lock up if u break hard and can't control the steering wheel and lose control.