evo handling vs sti
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evo handling vs sti
sorry to bring it up again...
EVO as better handling mainly because of better stering and better turn in of the suspension setings. Take the R2 Q-rack quick steering rack plus a 20mm or 22mm rear sway bar , put it on an STI. Is it a good enough recipe for the STI to keep up an EVO on the handling departement?
fill me in, thanks!
EVO as better handling mainly because of better stering and better turn in of the suspension setings. Take the R2 Q-rack quick steering rack plus a 20mm or 22mm rear sway bar , put it on an STI. Is it a good enough recipe for the STI to keep up an EVO on the handling departement?
fill me in, thanks!
Last edited by waved; Sep 6, 2004 at 01:14 PM.
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Originally Posted by waved
sorry to bring it up again...
EVO as better handling mainly because of better stering and better turn in of the suspension setings. Take the R2 Q-rack quick steering rack plus a 20mm or 22mm rear sway bar , put it on an STI. Is it a good enough recipe for the STI to keep up an EVO on the handling departement?
fill me in, thanks!
EVO as better handling mainly because of better stering and better turn in of the suspension setings. Take the R2 Q-rack quick steering rack plus a 20mm or 22mm rear sway bar , put it on an STI. Is it a good enough recipe for the STI to keep up an EVO on the handling departement?
fill me in, thanks!
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Originally Posted by erikgj
Probably not.
All people testing the STI against the EVO say that the STI is less willing to rotate and tend to push a bit in a turn compared to the EVO. With the simple setup i proposed, i thaught it could fix the main STI weakness.
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I am planning to throw some coil-overs in there, and maybe some new steering rack bushings, and new sway bar. Probably won't match an EVo, but I'll give it a run.
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Originally Posted by PyroManiac
I am planning to throw some coil-overs in there, and maybe some new steering rack bushings, and new sway bar. Probably won't match an EVo, but I'll give it a run.
Can somebody tell me why not? I just can't see any other factors why the STI could not match the EVO's handling.
tanks
hey
it is not as simple as "why or why not". both of these cars are exceptional in the handling department. but in a very differnt way....
if you read acticles about both cars, it is clear that the evo is an EASIER car to get to handle well. the chassis is super stiff, and just the general set up and design of the suspension creates one awesome car. the STi is also super stiff, but the geometry, the design, the weignt distribution, the shocks, the springs, the sway bars, the overall chassis dynamics, are different. it isnt as simple as "what is different". it is engineering and design.
the subaru uses a similar but different set up to achieve the same thing. BUT the subaru has a "heavy" feel to it, and tends to require more driver feedback to make it handle like the EVO. the EVO is simply easier to drive and easier to make handle better. some people like the "heavier" drivers feel. but the simple truth is the EVO, mod for mod, will continue to out handle the STi, and do it easlier than than the STi.
the steeering rack of the EVO is a work of genius. sneez at highway speeds and you are in another lane. this is good and bad. from yours and mine perspective, it is good.
the STi on the other hand has a less steering input. centered the steering feels numb. all subarus have this feeling. changing steeering bushungs helps. adding a heavier rear sway bar helps. using coilovers helps. BUT... that still doent add up to the EVO experience.
if you are looking for EVO handling from an STi is isnt going to happen. the FEEL of the two cars is just sooo different. if you like the STi and are trying to figure out how to make it handle like the EVO, you are fighting a loosing battle. it is like comparing apples to oranges. they are simply two awesome cars that although come from the same mold, are soo very different. i suggest driving both, and only then will you realize how far apart, yet how similar these cars are.
in the longevity and quality department, subaru takes the cake. EVO's are ugly and cheap inside. but personally, when it comes to driving, cheap and ugly isnt a real big deal for me. its how the car performs that is important. much of that is opinion, and #'s. drive both and make the decision. it will be obvious very quicky what suits you better.
josh
it is not as simple as "why or why not". both of these cars are exceptional in the handling department. but in a very differnt way....
if you read acticles about both cars, it is clear that the evo is an EASIER car to get to handle well. the chassis is super stiff, and just the general set up and design of the suspension creates one awesome car. the STi is also super stiff, but the geometry, the design, the weignt distribution, the shocks, the springs, the sway bars, the overall chassis dynamics, are different. it isnt as simple as "what is different". it is engineering and design.
the subaru uses a similar but different set up to achieve the same thing. BUT the subaru has a "heavy" feel to it, and tends to require more driver feedback to make it handle like the EVO. the EVO is simply easier to drive and easier to make handle better. some people like the "heavier" drivers feel. but the simple truth is the EVO, mod for mod, will continue to out handle the STi, and do it easlier than than the STi.
the steeering rack of the EVO is a work of genius. sneez at highway speeds and you are in another lane. this is good and bad. from yours and mine perspective, it is good.
the STi on the other hand has a less steering input. centered the steering feels numb. all subarus have this feeling. changing steeering bushungs helps. adding a heavier rear sway bar helps. using coilovers helps. BUT... that still doent add up to the EVO experience.
if you are looking for EVO handling from an STi is isnt going to happen. the FEEL of the two cars is just sooo different. if you like the STi and are trying to figure out how to make it handle like the EVO, you are fighting a loosing battle. it is like comparing apples to oranges. they are simply two awesome cars that although come from the same mold, are soo very different. i suggest driving both, and only then will you realize how far apart, yet how similar these cars are.
in the longevity and quality department, subaru takes the cake. EVO's are ugly and cheap inside. but personally, when it comes to driving, cheap and ugly isnt a real big deal for me. its how the car performs that is important. much of that is opinion, and #'s. drive both and make the decision. it will be obvious very quicky what suits you better.
josh
Last edited by josh; Sep 9, 2004 at 01:10 AM.
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Originally Posted by josh
hey
it is not as simple as "why or why not". both of these cars are exceptional in the handling department. but in a very differnt way....
if you read acticles about both cars, it is clear that the evo is an EASIER car to get to handle well. the chassis is super stiff, and just the general set up and design of the suspension creates one awesome car. the STi is also super stiff, but the geometry, the design, the weignt distribution, the shocks, the springs, the sway bars, the overall chassis dynamics, are different. it isnt as simple as "what is different". it is engineering and design.
the subaru uses a similar but different set up to achieve the same thing. BUT the subaru has a "heavy" feel to it, and tends to require more driver feedback to make it handle like the EVO. the EVO is simply easier to drive and easier to make handle better. some people like the "heavier" drivers feel. but the simple truth is the EVO, mod for mod, will continue to out handle the STi, and do it easlier than than the STi.
the steeering rack of the EVO is a work of genius. sneez at highway speeds and you are in another lane. this is good and bad. from yours and mine perspective, it is good.
the STi on the other hand has a less steering input. centered the steering feels numb. all subarus have this feeling. changing steeering bushungs helps. adding a heavier rear sway bar helps. using coilovers helps. BUT... that still doent add up to the EVO experience.
if you are looking for EVO handling from an STi is isnt going to happen. the FEEL of the two cars is just sooo different. if you like the STi and are trying to figure out how to make it handle like the EVO, you are fighting a loosing battle. it is like comparing apples to oranges. they are simply two awesome cars that although come from the same mold, are soo very different. i suggest driving both, and only then will you realize how far apart, yet how similar these cars are.
in the longevity and quality department, subaru takes the cake. EVO's are ugly and cheap inside. but personally, when it comes to driving, cheap and ugly isnt a real big deal for me. its how the car performs that is important. much of that is opinion, and #'s. drive both and make the decision. it will be obvious very quicky what suits you better.
josh
it is not as simple as "why or why not". both of these cars are exceptional in the handling department. but in a very differnt way....
if you read acticles about both cars, it is clear that the evo is an EASIER car to get to handle well. the chassis is super stiff, and just the general set up and design of the suspension creates one awesome car. the STi is also super stiff, but the geometry, the design, the weignt distribution, the shocks, the springs, the sway bars, the overall chassis dynamics, are different. it isnt as simple as "what is different". it is engineering and design.
the subaru uses a similar but different set up to achieve the same thing. BUT the subaru has a "heavy" feel to it, and tends to require more driver feedback to make it handle like the EVO. the EVO is simply easier to drive and easier to make handle better. some people like the "heavier" drivers feel. but the simple truth is the EVO, mod for mod, will continue to out handle the STi, and do it easlier than than the STi.
the steeering rack of the EVO is a work of genius. sneez at highway speeds and you are in another lane. this is good and bad. from yours and mine perspective, it is good.
the STi on the other hand has a less steering input. centered the steering feels numb. all subarus have this feeling. changing steeering bushungs helps. adding a heavier rear sway bar helps. using coilovers helps. BUT... that still doent add up to the EVO experience.
if you are looking for EVO handling from an STi is isnt going to happen. the FEEL of the two cars is just sooo different. if you like the STi and are trying to figure out how to make it handle like the EVO, you are fighting a loosing battle. it is like comparing apples to oranges. they are simply two awesome cars that although come from the same mold, are soo very different. i suggest driving both, and only then will you realize how far apart, yet how similar these cars are.
in the longevity and quality department, subaru takes the cake. EVO's are ugly and cheap inside. but personally, when it comes to driving, cheap and ugly isnt a real big deal for me. its how the car performs that is important. much of that is opinion, and #'s. drive both and make the decision. it will be obvious very quicky what suits you better.
josh
The interior on either is not a selling point. Like all cars it is just plastic. The Evo interior is squeak free in a majority of cars. The sashless dooors on the Impreza will always squeak. I could live with it but my wife could not.
This place is so much better than EvoM.
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Again, Josh couldn't have said it better in terms of handling in comparsion of STi and EVO. 
Yes Subaru did revised the suspension geometry on 05 STi's but did nothing with the steering ratio. Still 15.1:1. This is because the car is design for better driving experiences on the streets. The STi is easier to make U-turns compare with EVO that requires 3 pt U-turn in most cases. (hint: dont' follow your friend's EVO too closely while both of you trying to make a U-turn. hehehee 
)
Originally Posted by Petty
I have never driven an 04 STi, but I have just purchased an 05 STi, and to my knowledge I think Subaru fixed all the complaints about the handling on the 04.
)
Last edited by 1fastGC; Sep 10, 2004 at 09:06 PM.
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It might be a lost cause mod for mod, but one of the best references that I can think of when comparing the two cars are international press, like Japanese and British mags. In the latest issues, the british Type-25 (www.type-25.com) and the japanese Spec C Impreza actually outhandle the mighty Evos (even the FQ versions) in their tests.
It's a little bit of a chore to find what differences are in the Type-25 and Spec C compared to the regular STi, but this is what I gather so far...
Type-25 has engine mods to bring it to ~350 hp (USDM displacement, ecu, high flow cat, exhaust), and a reworked suspension (front anti-lift kit, bigger rear sway bar, coilovers, Spec C front geometry).
Spec C is bumped up to about 335 hp, has a quick rack, has revised front geometry, stiffer springs, more aggressive alignment, and is lightened by about 200 lbs.
It's a little bit of a chore to find what differences are in the Type-25 and Spec C compared to the regular STi, but this is what I gather so far...
Type-25 has engine mods to bring it to ~350 hp (USDM displacement, ecu, high flow cat, exhaust), and a reworked suspension (front anti-lift kit, bigger rear sway bar, coilovers, Spec C front geometry).
Spec C is bumped up to about 335 hp, has a quick rack, has revised front geometry, stiffer springs, more aggressive alignment, and is lightened by about 200 lbs.
andyf
now that is the most promising article and spec'd impreza i have read in a while. i too relesh the euro press when it comes to car reviews. they tend to be spot on with my preferences and the info i am after. VERY good read at that site. so much that it has given me new hope for the us spec STi.
i am very much biased toward subaru. i have had 5 of them, and am having the same EVO vs STi battle that seems like it will go on forwever (man i hope so...). i drove an EVO RS yesterday, and although the handling is nothing short of inspiring, the power was not as super duper as i thought it would be. it reminded me of the wrx. it just buzzes over 5.5k rpm. i KNOW mods will change that. dramatically.
what i like about the STi is the toque. torque is what makes cars fun to drive. and it what moves you. there is nothing like the torque of a big americam V8. it is just fun and the sound is great. i equate that to the STi. the boxer motor is awesome to listen to once opened up. this article now gives me hope on the handling department. i still think the feel will never be quite like the EVO, but this tuner sure seems to have make it similar, or that much better that the feel isn't what is being compared anymore. it looks like more castor(for the most part, a spec c suspension upgrade in front), their adjustable coilovers (where can you get those?) and the right geometry and alignment and they have made one great handling impreza. really all of that isnt that hard to accomplish. and the british roads are much like the roads we drive here in cali. hmmmmm......
thanks for the great resource. anymore info out there on the suby front to feed this fire?
josh
now that is the most promising article and spec'd impreza i have read in a while. i too relesh the euro press when it comes to car reviews. they tend to be spot on with my preferences and the info i am after. VERY good read at that site. so much that it has given me new hope for the us spec STi.
i am very much biased toward subaru. i have had 5 of them, and am having the same EVO vs STi battle that seems like it will go on forwever (man i hope so...). i drove an EVO RS yesterday, and although the handling is nothing short of inspiring, the power was not as super duper as i thought it would be. it reminded me of the wrx. it just buzzes over 5.5k rpm. i KNOW mods will change that. dramatically.
what i like about the STi is the toque. torque is what makes cars fun to drive. and it what moves you. there is nothing like the torque of a big americam V8. it is just fun and the sound is great. i equate that to the STi. the boxer motor is awesome to listen to once opened up. this article now gives me hope on the handling department. i still think the feel will never be quite like the EVO, but this tuner sure seems to have make it similar, or that much better that the feel isn't what is being compared anymore. it looks like more castor(for the most part, a spec c suspension upgrade in front), their adjustable coilovers (where can you get those?) and the right geometry and alignment and they have made one great handling impreza. really all of that isnt that hard to accomplish. and the british roads are much like the roads we drive here in cali. hmmmmm......
thanks for the great resource. anymore info out there on the suby front to feed this fire?
josh
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josh,
i must say thank you very much for clear and informative insight into the neverending debate of these 2 cars. i actually feel smarter now by reading your posts! i have driven the evo 3 times(but never in a hard driven application). i own and sell subies. personally i am kinda disappointed in the STi's lack of media success here in the U.S.
you said the magic word - which is torque. the torque is what puts a smile on my face every morning when i drive on the freeway(even after 6 months)
in terms of AWD systems i believe in the Subaru design because there is no one that has anything like it.(front diff, tranny and center diff all in one housing)
while i am not a fan of the mitsubishi design. i like the fact that the weight balance of the subaru is evenly split on both left and right.
aloha from the summit of Mauna Kea
i must say thank you very much for clear and informative insight into the neverending debate of these 2 cars. i actually feel smarter now by reading your posts! i have driven the evo 3 times(but never in a hard driven application). i own and sell subies. personally i am kinda disappointed in the STi's lack of media success here in the U.S.
you said the magic word - which is torque. the torque is what puts a smile on my face every morning when i drive on the freeway(even after 6 months)
in terms of AWD systems i believe in the Subaru design because there is no one that has anything like it.(front diff, tranny and center diff all in one housing)
while i am not a fan of the mitsubishi design. i like the fact that the weight balance of the subaru is evenly split on both left and right.
aloha from the summit of Mauna Kea
hey
gdogg, no problem! i am just as passionate as you all are about this stuff, and i get tired of "its better because i say it is and cuz i am biased and like it more" type review. both cars are exciting, and we are lucky to finally have them in the US.
waved, i am not sure of the exact ratio for each. i know the EVO is 2.5 turns lock to lock. not sure about the STi though.
josh
gdogg, no problem! i am just as passionate as you all are about this stuff, and i get tired of "its better because i say it is and cuz i am biased and like it more" type review. both cars are exciting, and we are lucky to finally have them in the US.
waved, i am not sure of the exact ratio for each. i know the EVO is 2.5 turns lock to lock. not sure about the STi though.
josh
judging from what i've read and seen in everyone's opinions, it seems like the usdm sti or wrx will never outhandle the evo. i do have to say that i disagree with this. the evo does have a stiff chassis, however, the wrx/sti can maintain corner speeds that are higher than the evo's. so when racing on a circuit course, i feel that the wrx/sti's can do what evo's can do. only advantage that i think evo's have is just the ratio of the steering rack. with a better front and rear diff, and some reinforcements in the suby, there's no doubt that it'll whoop on an evo anyday. plus, there's always the driver too!