Anyone else had a bad experience with Sea Foam?
11-10-2006, 01:07 AM
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Car Info: '13 BRZ Limited / '02 WRX
Anyone else had a bad experience with Sea Foam?
becaues I did not have the most pleasurable experience as my MGP actually went down after using the product. And by that I don't mean a week after they decreased, I mean the next time I drove my car they went down. Here are the emails sent back and forth between Sea Foams Customer "Service" and myself starting when from before I even bought the product.
(I do not still have my first email, but I asked about possible dangers to a turbocharged engine and any parts of the engine).
MY NEXT EMAIL SENT AFTER SEEING AN IMMEDIATE DECREASE IN MPG-
Well I took this information and trusted it. I put 1/3 of the bottle of sea foam through one of the vacuum lines on my engine, let it sit for 5 minutes, and then turned the car back in to let it all smoke out. After doing this my gas mileage has gone to ****. I just changed the spark plugs a few weeks ago (prior to sea foaming) and now, while driving extremely conservatively this past tank of gas, I am going to be lucky to get the same mileage as I did before while driving spiritedly. This really bothers me since now I have to check everything and also make sure the sea foam hasn't coated my new spark plugs. What will the company of sea foam do if I must spend $45 for new plugs as well as labor charges to install them? Thanks.
He starts out mostly polite, but still with an air of "our product is great, you screwed up" without seeking any more information (which he later blames me for of course)
MY NEXT RESPONSE-
"wow, very bad customer support. Do you always start out assuming your product has done nothing wrong? I will not be using your product anymore. I also will make sure everyone I that asks me about it understands the horrible customer service you offer. I'm not talking about I used it, and then a few tanks later mile mpg went down. I'm talking about I used it when I had about half of tank left, and for that half of a tank and then next tank mile mpg went way down. That is horrible business practice to just disregard any possible problems your product causes. **** the $6 for the can of crap, its the probably $75 for new plugs and installation I am out as well as any other costs to figure out what the sea foam did.
I do not appreciate you right off the bat assuming I did something wrong and then just saying the same propaganda over again about what it is used for. No **** your product is not "magic in a can" which also means, it can cause problems. You should seriously reconsider your business practices and your idea of "customer service." Check the next few issues of Road & Track and look for a nice letter to them about your company."
Yeah, I know, I threw in some seemingly empty threats, but I'm working on not making them empty
Here is where he starts to blame me for not giving him the info he should have requested to solve any concern with their product.
As anyone that has read a sea foam can before, they know its the same "magic in a can" propaganda that he sent in his first email.
MY NEXT RESPONSE-
Oh I bet you think you're so witty with that "no response is necessary" line huh? I have stated before that I followed the brief instructions on the can, as well as supplemental instructions from trusted mechanics for my specific engine. I have supplied you will all the information you need, multiple times, and you continue to blame and harass me, insisting that I must have done something wrong because your product "works for everyone else."
Heres where we are at now. The money back thing will not cover any money spent to figure out what the product has done to the car to decrease the gas mileage. Also, you're going to give me the name of your direct supervisor along with any one else above them, and phone numbers I can reach them at. Now, you'll probably try to avoid this situation to save your ***, but please know that then I'll have to go hunt down the names and numbers, which is just more fuel against you. All I was looking for in the beginning was a simple "I'm sorry you have a problem that seems to be related to our product, please supply is with the following information so we can get to the bottom of this. Instead of a out product is wonderful and works for everyone and you did something wrong." You are not the type of person that should have direct contact with other people, especially not in a customer service department and I would like to see this get changed.
As anyone who knows anything about business and companies, the "Technical Services Director" is not the highest position unless for some reason the owner of the company decides to fill that position themselves.
Now if my vehicle had any previous problems, it seems as if the Sea Foam aggravated those problems, in which case a "do not use this product if your car might be ____" would be nice to have on the can
MY FINAL RESPONSE TO SF-
oh the internet and its forums
have a nice day Dick, I have faith you wont be working in a job that requires person to person contact much longer. You should have handled the situation in a more professional way than you did, or possibly a professional way to begin with.
Now, I'm not one to start **** with a company for no reason, if they do their job well, or fix any job not done well within reason, I have no beef with them. For a company to automatically blame the consumer like this is unacceptable. My threats of letters to the editors of R&T and C&D, as well as my threat to go above his thread may seem empty, but all I need to do is find the right contact information and I'll but those threats into action.
In the mean time, I advise everyone ot stay away from this product. True, it has worked for many people, but that obviously doesn't mean it'll work for everyone, and if you're one of those people it doesn't work for, tough luck
I'd also advise anyone with a bad experience with SF to report it to the company.
My communications with this douche bag are not yet over either. And sorry for the long read guys, just had to get that all out there.
EDIT: please feel free to copy/link to this thread on any other forums you visit. NASIOC might not care though since that was my place for recreational **** storms...hehehe
(I do not still have my first email, but I asked about possible dangers to a turbocharged engine and any parts of the engine).
Originally Posted by SF RESPONSE
Oh, the internet and forums! Thank them for recommending Sea Foam, scorn them for being so unknowledgeable.
Sea Foam is a 100% blended petroleum oil product, so it is an OIL product, NOT A CHEMICAL like available retail oil system "FLUSHES" are.
Originally formulated and marketed starting in 1940 to cure problems in fuels and oils commonly occurring in the small engine industry, it is unique because it is OIL. Unique because you can NOT damage internal components when Sea Foam is used within the parameters printed on the product container and available on the internet.
This 100% OIL blend is specifically for drying moisture in gasoline gas/oil mixes & Diesel fuel and oil (yet not a chemical), adding lubrication to fuels and other lubricants for protection, cleaning fuel and oil residue back into liquid, cleaning carbon deposits off cylinder heads, pistons, valves & ring lands, and stabilizing fuels for up to 2 years.
NO CHEMICALS!! No affects on plastics, rubber products,gaskets, o-rings, seals or other components.
Used as a pre cleaner to doing an LOF service or as a "Quick Cure" for minor oil residue problems, Sea Foam can also be used as an after service additive to continue to re-liquefy old oil residue and keep moisture out of your oils. Sea Foam does NOT thin out your oil, has no affect on its lubricating properties, and works with synthetic oils also.
As a pre service cleaner or residue quick problem solver, always drive the engine a minimum of 30 minutes before doing your LOF service.
After putting Sea Foam into your crankcase at recommended amounts, Monitor the oil for color and clarity to determine when an oil service should be done, since Sea Foam is a high detergent cleaner, your LOF service WILL be necessary sooner than normal until residual old oil residue is eliminated."
Sea Foam is a 100% blended petroleum oil product, so it is an OIL product, NOT A CHEMICAL like available retail oil system "FLUSHES" are.
Originally formulated and marketed starting in 1940 to cure problems in fuels and oils commonly occurring in the small engine industry, it is unique because it is OIL. Unique because you can NOT damage internal components when Sea Foam is used within the parameters printed on the product container and available on the internet.
This 100% OIL blend is specifically for drying moisture in gasoline gas/oil mixes & Diesel fuel and oil (yet not a chemical), adding lubrication to fuels and other lubricants for protection, cleaning fuel and oil residue back into liquid, cleaning carbon deposits off cylinder heads, pistons, valves & ring lands, and stabilizing fuels for up to 2 years.
NO CHEMICALS!! No affects on plastics, rubber products,gaskets, o-rings, seals or other components.
Used as a pre cleaner to doing an LOF service or as a "Quick Cure" for minor oil residue problems, Sea Foam can also be used as an after service additive to continue to re-liquefy old oil residue and keep moisture out of your oils. Sea Foam does NOT thin out your oil, has no affect on its lubricating properties, and works with synthetic oils also.
As a pre service cleaner or residue quick problem solver, always drive the engine a minimum of 30 minutes before doing your LOF service.
After putting Sea Foam into your crankcase at recommended amounts, Monitor the oil for color and clarity to determine when an oil service should be done, since Sea Foam is a high detergent cleaner, your LOF service WILL be necessary sooner than normal until residual old oil residue is eliminated."
Well I took this information and trusted it. I put 1/3 of the bottle of sea foam through one of the vacuum lines on my engine, let it sit for 5 minutes, and then turned the car back in to let it all smoke out. After doing this my gas mileage has gone to ****. I just changed the spark plugs a few weeks ago (prior to sea foaming) and now, while driving extremely conservatively this past tank of gas, I am going to be lucky to get the same mileage as I did before while driving spiritedly. This really bothers me since now I have to check everything and also make sure the sea foam hasn't coated my new spark plugs. What will the company of sea foam do if I must spend $45 for new plugs as well as labor charges to install them? Thanks.
Originally Posted by SF RESPONSE
Sorry you have a situation that is probably unrelated to your use of Sea Foam Motor Treatment.
Sea Foam used according to printed instructions on the product container, is used to solve common fuel system related problems, oil system related problems and Carbon related problems in automotive, truck, diesel, industrial, agricultural and small engines. Sea Foam is NOT, however, magic in a can!
If you did not have a good experience with Sea Foam, then chances are you have other situations which need to be addressed.
Please make use of our product Satisfaction Guarantee. Take your empty container along with your receipt, to the point of purchase, and seek a refund of your purchase price. You may also send us the can and receipt, we will issue a refund from our offices.
Customer Service
Sea Foam used according to printed instructions on the product container, is used to solve common fuel system related problems, oil system related problems and Carbon related problems in automotive, truck, diesel, industrial, agricultural and small engines. Sea Foam is NOT, however, magic in a can!
If you did not have a good experience with Sea Foam, then chances are you have other situations which need to be addressed.
Please make use of our product Satisfaction Guarantee. Take your empty container along with your receipt, to the point of purchase, and seek a refund of your purchase price. You may also send us the can and receipt, we will issue a refund from our offices.
Customer Service
MY NEXT RESPONSE-
"wow, very bad customer support. Do you always start out assuming your product has done nothing wrong? I will not be using your product anymore. I also will make sure everyone I that asks me about it understands the horrible customer service you offer. I'm not talking about I used it, and then a few tanks later mile mpg went down. I'm talking about I used it when I had about half of tank left, and for that half of a tank and then next tank mile mpg went way down. That is horrible business practice to just disregard any possible problems your product causes. **** the $6 for the can of crap, its the probably $75 for new plugs and installation I am out as well as any other costs to figure out what the sea foam did.
I do not appreciate you right off the bat assuming I did something wrong and then just saying the same propaganda over again about what it is used for. No **** your product is not "magic in a can" which also means, it can cause problems. You should seriously reconsider your business practices and your idea of "customer service." Check the next few issues of Road & Track and look for a nice letter to them about your company."
Yeah, I know, I threw in some seemingly empty threats, but I'm working on not making them empty
Originally Posted by SF RESPONSE
Sir,
In my original e-mail to you, I ran through some of the basic uses of Sea Foam in the fuel and crankcase systems of a basic engine. You attempted a procedure done by certified technicians. More information should have been requested by you.
The upper cylinder carbon cleaning procedure you attempted requires thorough knowledge of the induction system of your engine. This is why you pay a technician lots of money at a repair facility, he has been taught the proper procedures for a multitude of systems. There are specifics for these procedures for specific vehicles. Not every person has the knowledge and not every vehicle induction system is the same.
Your return e-mail denotes that you applied 1/3 can of product "through one of the vacuum lines on my engine". This is a clue as to why you may have gotten undesirable results.
For Sea Foam to show concern for your situation, a little more information is necessary. You have not provided any information other than you are not satisfied and you performed a procedure you may not be qualified to perform. Sea Foam feels our response is justified.
Sea Foam offers "your money's worth or your money back" guarantee. "Gee, it didn't seem to help me out, therefore I can get my money back," gives you the opportunity to make use of our product guarantee. Our guarantee is a reasonable response to your concern and response, both presented as they were, with experlitives but also without specifics.
Sea Foam can not respond in generalities to a concern that is not specific, nor can Sea Foam be responsible for the "not proper" application of our product by a consumer.
"My gas mileage went down" is a legitimate concern, now back it up with some more specific information, like what car, your knowledge, previous symptoms, what engine, mileage, driving style/habits, how you applied Sea Foam & where, why?
Sea Foam would like to help you, when you actually give us the opportunity to.
Sixty five years of experience has shown that Sea Foam, when used by the consumer according to printed instructions on our product container, can not affect a component of a fuel system, oil system or induction system any differently than would properly recommended and applied air, fuel and oil.
Thank You.
Dick Davis
Technical Services Manager
Sea Foam Sales Company
Hopkins, Minnesota
952-938-4811
d.davis@seafoamsales.com
In my original e-mail to you, I ran through some of the basic uses of Sea Foam in the fuel and crankcase systems of a basic engine. You attempted a procedure done by certified technicians. More information should have been requested by you.
The upper cylinder carbon cleaning procedure you attempted requires thorough knowledge of the induction system of your engine. This is why you pay a technician lots of money at a repair facility, he has been taught the proper procedures for a multitude of systems. There are specifics for these procedures for specific vehicles. Not every person has the knowledge and not every vehicle induction system is the same.
Your return e-mail denotes that you applied 1/3 can of product "through one of the vacuum lines on my engine". This is a clue as to why you may have gotten undesirable results.
For Sea Foam to show concern for your situation, a little more information is necessary. You have not provided any information other than you are not satisfied and you performed a procedure you may not be qualified to perform. Sea Foam feels our response is justified.
Sea Foam offers "your money's worth or your money back" guarantee. "Gee, it didn't seem to help me out, therefore I can get my money back," gives you the opportunity to make use of our product guarantee. Our guarantee is a reasonable response to your concern and response, both presented as they were, with experlitives but also without specifics.
Sea Foam can not respond in generalities to a concern that is not specific, nor can Sea Foam be responsible for the "not proper" application of our product by a consumer.
"My gas mileage went down" is a legitimate concern, now back it up with some more specific information, like what car, your knowledge, previous symptoms, what engine, mileage, driving style/habits, how you applied Sea Foam & where, why?
Sea Foam would like to help you, when you actually give us the opportunity to.
Sixty five years of experience has shown that Sea Foam, when used by the consumer according to printed instructions on our product container, can not affect a component of a fuel system, oil system or induction system any differently than would properly recommended and applied air, fuel and oil.
Thank You.
Dick Davis
Technical Services Manager
Sea Foam Sales Company
Hopkins, Minnesota
952-938-4811
d.davis@seafoamsales.com
Originally Posted by NEXT SF RESPONSE BEFORE I HAD EVEN RESPONDED TO THE PREVIOUS ONE...DOUCHE BAG MUCH?
Use the information I supplied, apply that info to your vehicle. If you have a valve train noise, treat the crankcase oil to clean the "ultra heated old oil residue" that is probably causing your valve train noise, then treat the fuel to clean the carbon out of the upper cylinders the "easy way", as you drive. I did not hold back any information you needed, I gave you the info you needed to probably take care of your situation, unless it is a mechanical problem, and we do not fix mechanical problems. The decision to try an upper cylinder cleaning was yours, (I wouldn't have chosen upper cylinder cleaning for your problem as a cure unless the oil or fuel method did not work, then I'd talk to a technician first, ESPECIALLY WITH A TURBO) hopefully you read the BASIC instructions on the product container.
Our products are not just used by professional technicians, average guys like you use it ALL THE TIME, that is why you can go to almost any branded auto parts store and get Sea Foam. Simple stuff, clean it or keep it clean! It was all clean when the vehicle was new, and they normally run well !
As for our instructions, READ THE CAN! No, STUDY THE CAN! This is a really simple, easy to use product for fuel, oil and for "down the throttle". BUT YOU GOT TO DIAGNOSE PROPERLY AND KNOW HOW TO TREAT THE PROBLEM! We are not here to teach you auto mechanic basics 101, you got to have some of that. Our directions are so basic and simple, some people just read too much into it!
Like I said in the original E-mail, thank you for recommending Sea Foam, %^&$# them for reading too much into it!
As to why the vacuum line you chose may be wrong, DOES IT FEED ALL CYLINDERS? AND DOES THAT VACUUM LINE ALLOW INDUCTION SYSTEM AIR/SEA FOAM MIXTURE INTO ALL CYLINDERS EVENLY? On any specialized induction system, a proper source of full time vacuum at idle that feeds all cylinders is virtually impossible to find unless you are TRAINED to. Your procedure may have cleaned one or 2 cylinders with the wrong vacuum source, or you may have cleaned NONE!
Unbalanced cylinders won't give proper air/fuel ratio's and your O2 sensor will tell the system to feed too much fuel into the engine. "Walla", BAD MILEAGE, caused by who.......? Oh, if your O2 sensor happens to be going bad (it's an expensive "wear item") nothing is going to fix your fuel mileage until that is diagnosed by a trained professional and replaced!
Now, refer to my original response, treat the oil and the fuel and DRIVE IT! Monitor your oil color so you change the oil when it gets dirty, and use at least one ounce Sea Foam into your fuel tank for each gallon of Gasoline.
Then, if your problem does not go away within a couple of tank fulls of gasoline, GET YOUR MONEY BACK that you spent on the Sea Foam, pony up and go see a professional technician to diagnose and fix your problem, the simple, safe Sea Foam method did not work for you!
Thank you for your concerns, NO RESPONSE IS NECESSARY.
Our products are not just used by professional technicians, average guys like you use it ALL THE TIME, that is why you can go to almost any branded auto parts store and get Sea Foam. Simple stuff, clean it or keep it clean! It was all clean when the vehicle was new, and they normally run well !
As for our instructions, READ THE CAN! No, STUDY THE CAN! This is a really simple, easy to use product for fuel, oil and for "down the throttle". BUT YOU GOT TO DIAGNOSE PROPERLY AND KNOW HOW TO TREAT THE PROBLEM! We are not here to teach you auto mechanic basics 101, you got to have some of that. Our directions are so basic and simple, some people just read too much into it!
Like I said in the original E-mail, thank you for recommending Sea Foam, %^&$# them for reading too much into it!
As to why the vacuum line you chose may be wrong, DOES IT FEED ALL CYLINDERS? AND DOES THAT VACUUM LINE ALLOW INDUCTION SYSTEM AIR/SEA FOAM MIXTURE INTO ALL CYLINDERS EVENLY? On any specialized induction system, a proper source of full time vacuum at idle that feeds all cylinders is virtually impossible to find unless you are TRAINED to. Your procedure may have cleaned one or 2 cylinders with the wrong vacuum source, or you may have cleaned NONE!
Unbalanced cylinders won't give proper air/fuel ratio's and your O2 sensor will tell the system to feed too much fuel into the engine. "Walla", BAD MILEAGE, caused by who.......? Oh, if your O2 sensor happens to be going bad (it's an expensive "wear item") nothing is going to fix your fuel mileage until that is diagnosed by a trained professional and replaced!
Now, refer to my original response, treat the oil and the fuel and DRIVE IT! Monitor your oil color so you change the oil when it gets dirty, and use at least one ounce Sea Foam into your fuel tank for each gallon of Gasoline.
Then, if your problem does not go away within a couple of tank fulls of gasoline, GET YOUR MONEY BACK that you spent on the Sea Foam, pony up and go see a professional technician to diagnose and fix your problem, the simple, safe Sea Foam method did not work for you!
Thank you for your concerns, NO RESPONSE IS NECESSARY.
MY NEXT RESPONSE-
Oh I bet you think you're so witty with that "no response is necessary" line huh? I have stated before that I followed the brief instructions on the can, as well as supplemental instructions from trusted mechanics for my specific engine. I have supplied you will all the information you need, multiple times, and you continue to blame and harass me, insisting that I must have done something wrong because your product "works for everyone else."
Heres where we are at now. The money back thing will not cover any money spent to figure out what the product has done to the car to decrease the gas mileage. Also, you're going to give me the name of your direct supervisor along with any one else above them, and phone numbers I can reach them at. Now, you'll probably try to avoid this situation to save your ***, but please know that then I'll have to go hunt down the names and numbers, which is just more fuel against you. All I was looking for in the beginning was a simple "I'm sorry you have a problem that seems to be related to our product, please supply is with the following information so we can get to the bottom of this. Instead of a out product is wonderful and works for everyone and you did something wrong." You are not the type of person that should have direct contact with other people, especially not in a customer service department and I would like to see this get changed.
Originally Posted by SF LATEST RESPONSE SUPPOSEDLY FROM SOMEONE HIGHER UP ALTHOUGH ITS STILL 'SIGNED' BY HIM
Sea Foam supplies consumer information on our product container and on our web sight. We also make knowledgeable technical services available, backed up by 67 years of successful consumer usage of Sea Foam Products and my
industry experience of 37 years.
Sea Foam has made knowledgeable recommendations and supplied information as you requested. Your claim that this was faulty is NOT justifiable, so take it to a higher authority, if you must. I am the highest authority here!
Your claimed lack of fuel economy leads Sea Foam to believe your vehicle may have had problematic situations previous to your claimed use of Sea Foam Motor Treatment, and information about your fuel economy concern arose after the fact.
Sea Foam can not solve all claimed vehicle problems, and hesitates to recommend its product when we knowingly feel a Sea Foam Product will not meet your expectation. Sea Foam Sales Company is not and can not be responsible for a consumer whose expectations exceed reasonable results. A reasonable consumer expectation, general knowledge of technical aspects of the crankcase, induction and fuel systems, and knowledge of proper procedures necessary to perform these system tasks are in general a necessity with any consumer product.
We regret you are an unhappy consumer, we have asked you to take advantage of our "Guarantee", and I will ask you to again, as that IS your only recourse.
Sea Foam Products feels our time spent on your situation and services provided to you, a claimed consumer of Sea Foam Products, have been more than professional, and ask that you please discontinue any further communications concerning your claimed concern. Other avenues are available to you, should you wish.
Thank You!
Dick Davis
Technical Services Director
Sea Foam Sales Company
Minneapolis, Minnesota
industry experience of 37 years.
Sea Foam has made knowledgeable recommendations and supplied information as you requested. Your claim that this was faulty is NOT justifiable, so take it to a higher authority, if you must. I am the highest authority here!
Your claimed lack of fuel economy leads Sea Foam to believe your vehicle may have had problematic situations previous to your claimed use of Sea Foam Motor Treatment, and information about your fuel economy concern arose after the fact.
Sea Foam can not solve all claimed vehicle problems, and hesitates to recommend its product when we knowingly feel a Sea Foam Product will not meet your expectation. Sea Foam Sales Company is not and can not be responsible for a consumer whose expectations exceed reasonable results. A reasonable consumer expectation, general knowledge of technical aspects of the crankcase, induction and fuel systems, and knowledge of proper procedures necessary to perform these system tasks are in general a necessity with any consumer product.
We regret you are an unhappy consumer, we have asked you to take advantage of our "Guarantee", and I will ask you to again, as that IS your only recourse.
Sea Foam Products feels our time spent on your situation and services provided to you, a claimed consumer of Sea Foam Products, have been more than professional, and ask that you please discontinue any further communications concerning your claimed concern. Other avenues are available to you, should you wish.
Thank You!
Dick Davis
Technical Services Director
Sea Foam Sales Company
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Now if my vehicle had any previous problems, it seems as if the Sea Foam aggravated those problems, in which case a "do not use this product if your car might be ____" would be nice to have on the can
MY FINAL RESPONSE TO SF-
oh the internet and its forums
have a nice day Dick, I have faith you wont be working in a job that requires person to person contact much longer. You should have handled the situation in a more professional way than you did, or possibly a professional way to begin with.
Now, I'm not one to start **** with a company for no reason, if they do their job well, or fix any job not done well within reason, I have no beef with them. For a company to automatically blame the consumer like this is unacceptable. My threats of letters to the editors of R&T and C&D, as well as my threat to go above his thread may seem empty, but all I need to do is find the right contact information and I'll but those threats into action.
In the mean time, I advise everyone ot stay away from this product. True, it has worked for many people, but that obviously doesn't mean it'll work for everyone, and if you're one of those people it doesn't work for, tough luck
I'd also advise anyone with a bad experience with SF to report it to the company.
My communications with this douche bag are not yet over either. And sorry for the long read guys, just had to get that all out there.
EDIT: please feel free to copy/link to this thread on any other forums you visit. NASIOC might not care though since that was my place for recreational **** storms...hehehe
Last edited by VRT MBasile; 11-10-2006 at 01:33 AM.
11-10-2006, 03:59 PM
#6
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no, the cats have been removed for a while now. I know this will shorten the life of the rear o2 sensor, but then I would have seen MPG decreasing for a while, rather than suddenly in the middle of a tank of gas
11-11-2006, 07:35 PM
#7
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I took a look at the Material Safety Data Sheet in Sea Foam's website, and it has me concerned.
You can find it here: http://www.seafoamsales.com/pdf/MSDS_SFTT_US.pdf
Notice that the MSDS applies to either the Motor Treatment or Trans Tune, but their chemical composition varies depending on which product it will be marketed as. Look at the pictures; notice the only differences between the two are the labels and the caps. The two products, when poured into a glass, would pretty much look and smell the same. However, since the ONLY difference between the two are the mixture percentages, it is entirely possible that your can is mislabeled! Since running either product through your intake would produce smoke, you wouldn't think anything was wrong.
However, you may have coked-up the turbocharger, the EGR valve and ports, and coated the O2 sensors with soot. If you have a CEL eliminator or a re-flash to keep your "Check Engine" light from coming on, the computer wouldn't be able to tell you that something is wrong. All you will notice is a lack of power and poor fuel economy.
To find out if you have a mislabeled product, take whatever you have left to a petrochemical lab and have it analyzed. Naturally, the Motor Treatment would have a lower percentage of "Snake Oil" vs. naptha/IPA.
If I'm right, your engine could be sicker than you suspect. If I'm wrong, just use the Genuine Subaru engine treament (maybe twice?) and don't bother using Sea Foam again.
Cheers,
Sean
You can find it here: http://www.seafoamsales.com/pdf/MSDS_SFTT_US.pdf
Notice that the MSDS applies to either the Motor Treatment or Trans Tune, but their chemical composition varies depending on which product it will be marketed as. Look at the pictures; notice the only differences between the two are the labels and the caps. The two products, when poured into a glass, would pretty much look and smell the same. However, since the ONLY difference between the two are the mixture percentages, it is entirely possible that your can is mislabeled! Since running either product through your intake would produce smoke, you wouldn't think anything was wrong.
However, you may have coked-up the turbocharger, the EGR valve and ports, and coated the O2 sensors with soot. If you have a CEL eliminator or a re-flash to keep your "Check Engine" light from coming on, the computer wouldn't be able to tell you that something is wrong. All you will notice is a lack of power and poor fuel economy.
To find out if you have a mislabeled product, take whatever you have left to a petrochemical lab and have it analyzed. Naturally, the Motor Treatment would have a lower percentage of "Snake Oil" vs. naptha/IPA.
If I'm right, your engine could be sicker than you suspect. If I'm wrong, just use the Genuine Subaru engine treament (maybe twice?) and don't bother using Sea Foam again.
Cheers,
Sean
11-12-2006, 10:21 PM
#9
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ok, its too cold outside to **** with the o2 sensor since I dont even have the right socket for it. How badly would my mileage go down? I seem to have lost about 20 gallons per tank but still seem to be hitting the same boost
11-12-2006, 10:28 PM
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I honestly don't know where you could find a lab down where you cruise. 
: puts on thinking cap :
I got an idea! Take your witches brew to a lab that analyzes used motor oil for commercial truckers. If you can't find one easily, go to the nearest truck stop, and start asking around.
If I'm right on my theory, the sensor would be covered in something similar to loose asphalt.
: puts on thinking cap :
I got an idea! Take your witches brew to a lab that analyzes used motor oil for commercial truckers. If you can't find one easily, go to the nearest truck stop, and start asking around.
If I'm right on my theory, the sensor would be covered in something similar to loose asphalt.
11-12-2006, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MBasile
ok, its too cold outside to **** with the o2 sensor since I dont even have the right socket for it. How badly would my mileage go down? I seem to have lost about 20 gallons per tank but still seem to be hitting the same boost
AFAIK, the loss of fuel economy would be unpredictable, but could range from noticeable (3-5 MPG loss) to drastic (cut in half).
11-12-2006, 10:46 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by MBasile
would the turbo just be able to be cleaned up or would it be fubar'd?
The GM/Honda/Acura top engine cleaner is all the same stuff. It is the ****. When I worked at a Chevy dealer 11 years ago, mechanics would use it to clean-out Geo Metros owned by little-old-ladies. The car would blow a plume out the tailpipe 5X bigger than the car (no joke). Oh yeah, it's all solvent, NO oil in it!
11-12-2006, 10:58 PM
#14
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well the mpg loss is about 1-2 mpg difference and boost comes on normally, just lacks in the top end like the good ol' TD04 it is
I'll stop by the acura dealership sometime now that I know my buddy works in the service department office
I'll stop by the acura dealership sometime now that I know my buddy works in the service department office
11-13-2006, 11:40 AM
#15
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How many tanks of gas have you gone through since? Honestly 1-2mpg is not that much and could be the gas you buy. I notice a small difference in mpg like 1-2 mpg when I buy Shell compared to Chevron. Now if it went down 5-10 mpg, driving conservative, you would have a concern.