Woman sues Honda in Small Claims Court
#2
so you don't have to click
TORRANCE, California (AP) - A woman who expected her Civic Hybrid to be her dream car wants Honda to pay for not delivering the 50 mpg (21 kilometers per liter) it promised.
But rather than joining other owners in a class-action lawsuit, Heather Peters is going solo against the automaker in small-claims court, an unusual move that could offer a bigger payout. And if successful, it could open the door to a flood of similar lawsuits.
A trial is set for Tuesday in Torrance, where American Honda Motor Co. has its West Coast headquarters.
Peters, a former lawyer, says that as her vehicle's battery deteriorated, it got only 30 mpg (12.5 kpl).
When Honda ignored her complaints, she filed legal papers seeking reimbursement for her trouble and the extra money she spent on gas. The suit could cost the company up to $10,000.
If other Civic owners follow her lead, she estimates Honda could be forced to pay as much as $2 billion in damages. No high-priced lawyers are involved, and the process is streamlined.
"I would not be surprised if she won," said Richard Cupp Jr., who teaches product-liability law at Pepperdine University. "The judge will have a lot of discretion, and the evidentiary standards are relaxed in small-claims court."
Small claims courts generally handle private disputes that do not involve large amounts of money. In many states, that means small debts, quarrels between tenants and landlords and contract disagreements.
A victory for Peters could encourage others to take the same simplified route, he said.
"There's an old saying among lawyers," Cupp said. "If you want real justice, go to small-claims court."
But he questioned whether her move would start a groundswell of similar cases. He suggested that few people would want to spend the time and energy that Peters has put into her suit when the potential payoff is as little as a few thousand dollars.
Peters opted out of a series of class-action lawsuits filed on behalf of Honda hybrid owners when she saw a proposed settlement would give plaintiffs no more than $200 cash and a rebate of $500 or $1,000 to purchase a new Honda.
The settlement would give trial lawyers $8.5 million, Peters said.
"I was shocked," she said. "I wrote to Honda and said I would take $7,500, which was then the limit on small claims in California. It is going up to $10,000 in 2012."
Typical limits in other states range from $2,500 to $15,000.
She said she also offered to trade her hybrid for a comparable car with a manual transmission, the only thing she trusted at that point.
"I wrote the letter and I said, 'If you don't respond, I will file a suit in small-claims court.' I gave them my phone number," she said. "They never called."
She said she also sent emails to top executives at Honda but got no response. She also launched a website, DontSettleWithHonda.org, urging others to take their complaints to small-claims court.
Aaron Jacoby, a Los Angeles attorney who heads the automotive industry group at the Arent Fox law firm, said Peters' strategy, while intriguing, is unlikely to change the course of class-action litigation.
"In the class-action, the potential claimants don't have to do anything," Jacoby said. "It's designed to be an efficient way for a court to handle multiple claims of the same type."
He also questioned her criticism of lawyers' fees. Jacoby said class-action lawyers do extensive work that involves many clients and sometimes spans years. And they are not in it just for money.
"They're representing the underdog, and they believe they are performing a public duty," he said. "Many of these people could not get lawyers to represent them individually."
The judge hearing Peters' case was not expected to make an immediate ruling Tuesday, but small claims matters are usually decided much faster than those in civil courts, which often take years to resolve major cases.
American Honda's offices were closed for the holidays, and no one could be reached for comment. Peters said the company has tried five times to delay the trial but was rebuffed.
The upside of Peters' unusual move, she says, is that litigants are not allowed to have lawyers argue in small-claims court in California. That means any award would not be diluted by attorney's fees. Honda would have to appoint a non-lawyer employee to argue its side in court.
"If I prevail and get $10,000, they have 200,000 of these cars out there," she said.
A judge in San Diego County is due to rule in March on whether to approve Honda's latest class-action settlement offer. Members of the class have until Feb. 11 to accept or decline the deal.
Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
But rather than joining other owners in a class-action lawsuit, Heather Peters is going solo against the automaker in small-claims court, an unusual move that could offer a bigger payout. And if successful, it could open the door to a flood of similar lawsuits.
A trial is set for Tuesday in Torrance, where American Honda Motor Co. has its West Coast headquarters.
Peters, a former lawyer, says that as her vehicle's battery deteriorated, it got only 30 mpg (12.5 kpl).
When Honda ignored her complaints, she filed legal papers seeking reimbursement for her trouble and the extra money she spent on gas. The suit could cost the company up to $10,000.
If other Civic owners follow her lead, she estimates Honda could be forced to pay as much as $2 billion in damages. No high-priced lawyers are involved, and the process is streamlined.
"I would not be surprised if she won," said Richard Cupp Jr., who teaches product-liability law at Pepperdine University. "The judge will have a lot of discretion, and the evidentiary standards are relaxed in small-claims court."
Small claims courts generally handle private disputes that do not involve large amounts of money. In many states, that means small debts, quarrels between tenants and landlords and contract disagreements.
A victory for Peters could encourage others to take the same simplified route, he said.
"There's an old saying among lawyers," Cupp said. "If you want real justice, go to small-claims court."
But he questioned whether her move would start a groundswell of similar cases. He suggested that few people would want to spend the time and energy that Peters has put into her suit when the potential payoff is as little as a few thousand dollars.
Peters opted out of a series of class-action lawsuits filed on behalf of Honda hybrid owners when she saw a proposed settlement would give plaintiffs no more than $200 cash and a rebate of $500 or $1,000 to purchase a new Honda.
The settlement would give trial lawyers $8.5 million, Peters said.
"I was shocked," she said. "I wrote to Honda and said I would take $7,500, which was then the limit on small claims in California. It is going up to $10,000 in 2012."
Typical limits in other states range from $2,500 to $15,000.
She said she also offered to trade her hybrid for a comparable car with a manual transmission, the only thing she trusted at that point.
"I wrote the letter and I said, 'If you don't respond, I will file a suit in small-claims court.' I gave them my phone number," she said. "They never called."
She said she also sent emails to top executives at Honda but got no response. She also launched a website, DontSettleWithHonda.org, urging others to take their complaints to small-claims court.
Aaron Jacoby, a Los Angeles attorney who heads the automotive industry group at the Arent Fox law firm, said Peters' strategy, while intriguing, is unlikely to change the course of class-action litigation.
"In the class-action, the potential claimants don't have to do anything," Jacoby said. "It's designed to be an efficient way for a court to handle multiple claims of the same type."
He also questioned her criticism of lawyers' fees. Jacoby said class-action lawyers do extensive work that involves many clients and sometimes spans years. And they are not in it just for money.
"They're representing the underdog, and they believe they are performing a public duty," he said. "Many of these people could not get lawyers to represent them individually."
The judge hearing Peters' case was not expected to make an immediate ruling Tuesday, but small claims matters are usually decided much faster than those in civil courts, which often take years to resolve major cases.
American Honda's offices were closed for the holidays, and no one could be reached for comment. Peters said the company has tried five times to delay the trial but was rebuffed.
The upside of Peters' unusual move, she says, is that litigants are not allowed to have lawyers argue in small-claims court in California. That means any award would not be diluted by attorney's fees. Honda would have to appoint a non-lawyer employee to argue its side in court.
"If I prevail and get $10,000, they have 200,000 of these cars out there," she said.
A judge in San Diego County is due to rule in March on whether to approve Honda's latest class-action settlement offer. Members of the class have until Feb. 11 to accept or decline the deal.
Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
#7
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bay Area/SB
Posts: 1,161
Car Info: 02 WRX
It's sort of interesting, because I had always assumed that everyone just UNDERSTANDS that they probably wont get the manufacturer's claimed fuel economy. It kind of makes sense if people are upset though, because fuel economy can be a major criteria in choosing a car. If people buy cars with the understanding that they can replicate the manufacturer's fuel economy, maybe the manufacturer should present more realistic numbers.
I wonder how far the woman is from 50mpg
I wonder how far the woman is from 50mpg
#8
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 4,300
Car Info: http://kiva.org/invitedby/brett4254
Neither party is allowed to use lawyers in Small Claims court. Big Corporations don't have all the legal protection they would have in a normal civil court.
Bet your ***, Honda will settle with her. There's no way the CFO will show up to defend himself for $10K
Frankly I think the auto manufacturers have an obligation to honor their mileage claims. It's a selling point, and it it's false, than it's fraud.
Bet your ***, Honda will settle with her. There's no way the CFO will show up to defend himself for $10K
Frankly I think the auto manufacturers have an obligation to honor their mileage claims. It's a selling point, and it it's false, than it's fraud.
#9
banned
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: 2006 Zero/sports Widebody
Posts: 1,669
Car Info: 500+ whp Club
Our world has gone from hand shake to I WANT IT NOW! AND IT BETTER BE PERFECT! AND OR BE FREE!
Its only going to get worse over time.. Thank all those Berkeley professors teaching how they think the world should run and not how it needs to be run. Same guys that taught the investor world.....
Its only going to get worse over time.. Thank all those Berkeley professors teaching how they think the world should run and not how it needs to be run. Same guys that taught the investor world.....
#10
Honor mileage claims? How can you honor how people step on their pedal? I see people in Hybrids fly by me while I'm cruisin' at 70mph all the time. LoL.. Iono, I'm on both sides.
#1 Product never reaches or exceeds the "avg" of anything any company says, whether it's battery on a phone or mileage in a car. It's always barely avg or less. So I do understand the law suit.
#2 If I was a citizen it is kind of picky, if you aren't satisfied with the car, ditch the **** and don't give the company ur money. *shrugs* If a company sells a crappy something, and it doesn't ENDANGER you, then you can just say your opinion and walk off.
Kind of like us nerds who argue over games, if COD is crappier than MW3, or SWTOR is crappier than WoW, then switch and don't give them your $$. Alwell, it's America, sue happy society...
This is why companies are so bulked with insurance, and consumers use it to their advantage ><. It'd be cheaper if people just said "Screw Honda, I'm buying Toyota" or something.
#1 Product never reaches or exceeds the "avg" of anything any company says, whether it's battery on a phone or mileage in a car. It's always barely avg or less. So I do understand the law suit.
#2 If I was a citizen it is kind of picky, if you aren't satisfied with the car, ditch the **** and don't give the company ur money. *shrugs* If a company sells a crappy something, and it doesn't ENDANGER you, then you can just say your opinion and walk off.
Kind of like us nerds who argue over games, if COD is crappier than MW3, or SWTOR is crappier than WoW, then switch and don't give them your $$. Alwell, it's America, sue happy society...
This is why companies are so bulked with insurance, and consumers use it to their advantage ><. It'd be cheaper if people just said "Screw Honda, I'm buying Toyota" or something.
#11
banned
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: 2006 Zero/sports Widebody
Posts: 1,669
Car Info: 500+ whp Club
Same thing happened to Yamaha and Mazda. She was just smart. The greedy ones are doing the class action and being paid 8.5 million.
Ducati owners are being screwed over right now with the fuel tanks. And Ducati is doing it on a case by case and no real fix. Some people have been through 3 gas tanks. And they are still having problems while others can't even get theirs replaced under warranty. This effects anyone with a Ducati using a plastic fuel tank. So 2001 and up. Tanks are falling off the front mount tabs and some tanks no longer fit in the frame rails.
But Ducati is fighting it.... They refuse to own up to it. And now the class action suits are flying..
#12
250,000-mile Club President
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bizerkeley
Posts: 4,770
Car Info: MBP 02 WRX wagon
But I have to say- taking it to small claims is a stroke of genius.
#13
banned
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: 2006 Zero/sports Widebody
Posts: 1,669
Car Info: 500+ whp Club
Honor mileage claims? How can you honor how people step on their pedal? I see people in Hybrids fly by me while I'm cruisin' at 70mph all the time. LoL.. Iono, I'm on both sides.
#1 Product never reaches or exceeds the "avg" of anything any company says, whether it's battery on a phone or mileage in a car. It's always barely avg or less. So I do understand the law suit.
#2 If I was a citizen it is kind of picky, if you aren't satisfied with the car, ditch the **** and don't give the company ur money. *shrugs* If a company sells a crappy something, and it doesn't ENDANGER you, then you can just say your opinion and walk off.
Kind of like us nerds who argue over games, if COD is crappier than MW3, or SWTOR is crappier than WoW, then switch and don't give them your $$. Alwell, it's America, sue happy society...
This is why companies are so bulked with insurance, and consumers use it to their advantage ><. It'd be cheaper if people just said "Screw Honda, I'm buying Toyota" or something.
#1 Product never reaches or exceeds the "avg" of anything any company says, whether it's battery on a phone or mileage in a car. It's always barely avg or less. So I do understand the law suit.
#2 If I was a citizen it is kind of picky, if you aren't satisfied with the car, ditch the **** and don't give the company ur money. *shrugs* If a company sells a crappy something, and it doesn't ENDANGER you, then you can just say your opinion and walk off.
Kind of like us nerds who argue over games, if COD is crappier than MW3, or SWTOR is crappier than WoW, then switch and don't give them your $$. Alwell, it's America, sue happy society...
This is why companies are so bulked with insurance, and consumers use it to their advantage ><. It'd be cheaper if people just said "Screw Honda, I'm buying Toyota" or something.
So we will all be driving plain jane cars and no info on the cars when we buy them. Least till someone sues them over no info on their car.
#14
banned
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: 2006 Zero/sports Widebody
Posts: 1,669
Car Info: 500+ whp Club
As far as mileage being a selling point. To Honda is more of qualifying to get EPA approval to sell the car. Thats why everyone has that disclaimer on mileage. So you can't sue the EPA as well... But anything is possible with the right lawyer.
Another one that has me pissed right now is Verizon. I buy a brand new Bionic. Its failed at 15 days old. They send me a refurb phone to replace a new one. WTF... A used phone goes to replace a brand new one. Then when that one failed. They want to send me replacement phone a 3rd time but a lesser value phone. And one that doesn't use my web-dock. I spend $650 on a Bionic phone and then the web-dock. Their phone fails twice and now they want to give me a lesser phone that sells for $200 and tell me sorry you can keep the web-dock you can't return it.
I'm about to march into a Verizon store and let hell loose on someone.
Another one that has me pissed right now is Verizon. I buy a brand new Bionic. Its failed at 15 days old. They send me a refurb phone to replace a new one. WTF... A used phone goes to replace a brand new one. Then when that one failed. They want to send me replacement phone a 3rd time but a lesser value phone. And one that doesn't use my web-dock. I spend $650 on a Bionic phone and then the web-dock. Their phone fails twice and now they want to give me a lesser phone that sells for $200 and tell me sorry you can keep the web-dock you can't return it.
I'm about to march into a Verizon store and let hell loose on someone.
#15
aka FlukeWRX
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Bay
Posts: 3,657
Car Info: '03 WRX WRB Sedan
It's sort of interesting, because I had always assumed that everyone just UNDERSTANDS that they probably wont get the manufacturer's claimed fuel economy. It kind of makes sense if people are upset though, because fuel economy can be a major criteria in choosing a car. If people buy cars with the understanding that they can replicate the manufacturer's fuel economy, maybe the manufacturer should present more realistic numbers.
I wonder how far the woman is from 50mpg
I wonder how far the woman is from 50mpg
Peters, a former lawyer, says that as her vehicle's battery deteriorated, it got only 30 mpg (12.5 kpl)."
Looks like the battery has deteriorated and she is only getting 30 MPG instead of the claimed 50 MPG. However, everybody has different driving styles so who knows if her claims are real or not. I would think in order for her to really prove she is only getting 30 MPG & not just claiming it that she would need to prove that mileage by having her car being tracked for mileage over the course of time and not just a claim (i.e. she needs to have photographic evidence or video evidence of mileage traveled compared to gallons of fuel that she fills at the gas pump when she fills up).
If she is really only getting 30 MPG instead of the claimed 50 MPG and she is following proper driving methods then that means that she is only getting about 60% of the MPG that she should be getting which is a pretty significant difference. I may have missed it in the article, but it just says it's a Hybrid, but it doesn't mention what Model Year the car actually is so not sure if this is something that is only 1 year old or 10 years old or something else entirely.