Then you must ask the most signifigant and brave question you can.
"Where did god come from?

In many cultures it is customary to answer that God created the universe out of nothing. But this is mere temporizing. If we wish courageously to pursue the question, we must, of course ask next where God comes from? And if we decide this to be unanswerable, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed? [Carl Sagan, Cosmos, page 257]

You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985]


"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. it is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.) [Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection]"

(When asked merely if they accept evolution, 45 percent of Americans say yes. The figure is 70 percent in China.) When the movie Jurassic Park was shown in Israel, it was condemned by some Orthodox rabbis because it accepted evolution and because it taught that dinosaurs lived a hundred million years ago--when, as is plainly stated at every Rosh Hashonhan and every Jewish wedding ceremony, the Universe is less than 6,000 years old. [Carl Sagan, _The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark_, p. 325]

 

Where did God come from? God was not created; He is the Creator.

If you don’t believe in God, then you have to accept by blind faith that matter arranged itself into complex information systems like DNA, which goes against what we observe in real science today.

We observe in genetic studies mutations overwhelmingly cause a loss of genetic information. This indeed works in the opposite direction of what molecules-to-man evolution actually needs.

"There is no known natural law through which matter can giver rise to information, neither is any physical process or material phenomenon known that can do this." - Werner Gitt from In the Beginning Was Information

"A code system is always the result of a mental process (it requires an intelligent origin or inventor)... It should be emphasized that matter as such is unable to generate any code. All experiences indicate that a thinking being voluntarily exercising his own free will, cognition, and creativity, is required." - Werner Gitt from In the Beginning Was Information

In response to your quotes. There is evidence for God and the validity of the Bible. However, there is not evidence of molecules-to-man evolution. We see evidence of adaptation and variation of species, which is talked about in the Bible. But we do not see evidence of primordial molecules evolving to man in the fossil record. Most evolutionists are aware of the fact that the fossil record contains no such transitional record.

Even Charles Darwin wrote that one of the best arguments against molecules-to-man evolution was that there is absolutely no fossil record to back that claim. There should be billions of "in between" phases in the fossil record in which we can see phenomena such as "scales becoming teeth," not only moving from the outside of a body to the inside, but rather completely changing their physiology, innervating, and growing a blood supply system with arteries and veins lol. There is no such fossil record. THAT is blind faith my friend.

In response to the Sagan quote about convincing a believer:

His claim assumes that all believers' beliefs are not based on evidence. Sure, there may be a good number of believers with out a clue about the worldly evidence who purely believe because they believe and can't tell you why their belief is the right belief with worldly evidence.

However, there are many who know why they believe and can support it with worldly evidence and facts as I have. Jesus said the following to Nicodemus:

If one doesn't believe worldly things about the Bible for which there is worldly evidence, then how can one believe in heavenly things? The worldly evidence for the Bible's accuracy and truth is here.

The Bible says:

God left tons of evidence behind to back the accounts found in His Word and so men are without excuse for not believing what they have heard.

-Steven

 

Just noticed this:

This is funny because in order for his statement to be true, Dr. Arroway has to believe his own statement that you can't convince someone who believes something of anything including himself in believing this statement; for their belief is not based on evidence (including his own by his theory), it's based on a deep seated need to believe... lol Does he not have a deep seated need to believe this?

 

damn it...... this just turned into another religion battle

 

That's a very good argument Steven, and I completely respect your beliefs and convictions, however I'm more of a Darwin-type. I mean, sheep are genetically very similar to humans so we use them to make vaccines against sickness; why does genetic makeup have so little to do with self-awareness?

I'd say that humans are the only ones with this trait as far as I have heard, and being so closely related to animals without this, I can only suppose that there's some higher power that caused this.

Any scripture written by another human, Jesus or not, I cannot take as truth. I can certainly interpret the words to my own experience but really need fact checking and objective proof to validate the claims. But this is my own deal, and having been raised Catholic I have seen a majority of people 'living' behind false doctrines and I cannot accept putting up with them.

The Universe is only what we think it is, and that is badass.

Agnostic FTW

 

 

my brain hurts

 

Just ignore the religious babble.

 

what do u have against religion?

 

Me? Religion as a whole, and fundamentally, nothing. This thread was not about religion, and it shouldn't be hijacked into a religious debate.

 

i think the way you worded your first post was what started it...

 

My bad. Now back to SPACE!

 

im too tired to think about space... really, i tried, its way to nueron intensive. lets talk about they gymkhana 2 video again. man, ken block is the ****.

 

I appreciate your respect and I as well have it for what you wrote. With regards to being more Darwin based, the argument I wrote above is incontrovertible and proves Darwinian theory is impossible even aside from Biblical teaching. The worldly evidence disproves it. I am merely showing that there is worldly evidence of God's Creation and proof that the accounts of the Bible are accurate, but I can't affect a changed heart and a belief in God, only God can change someone's heart.

I'd like to address the issue you take with trusting what is written in the Bible. First, I ask the question "Let's assume God does exist, how would you know about Him?" Would it not be logical to assume that if there is a Creator that made Man in His image, He would make Himself known? But what would it take for Him to make Himself known to you? Considering that can be sobering.

Just wanted to clear two things up real quick: 1) Jesus wasn't just a man, He is the living God and 2) Jesus didn't write any book in the Bible, His Disciples did though after His death.

The Bible is the revelation of God, recorded over a period of 2,000 years, originally in 3 languages, transcribed by over 40 authors ranging from kings to slaves and farmers to warriors, in times of peace and in times of war, as well as across three continents with such a consistency that is unpresidented in human history from its very first verse in Genesis through the last in Revelation which can only be explained by it coming from an eternal all knowing God.

I completely agree with you saying that you need facts to believe. I do/did as well. If I were to show you the worldly evidence of the Bible's truth and accuracy, would you be more likely to believe the heavenly things that are untestable and matters of faith? Of course. But if you can't believe the worldly evidence, then how can you believe that which requires faith? One likely can not do so logically.

I implore you to ask yourself more questions about Darwinian theory and what I've written in this thread. I know you said that you don't want to live behind false doctrine, which is why I think you would benefit from researching archeology, geology, biology, etc. with respect to the vast lack of the transition fossils in the fossil record, genetics, the account of a world wide flood, the assumptions scientist make when utilizing radiometric dating methods, dinosaurs, the difference between natural selection (Biblical) and molecules-to-man evolution, etc.

The Bible completely backs real science.