Shooting War starts between US & Mexico?
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Joined: Nov 2009
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From: SoCal
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Ha, if the majority of America only knew....
This type of border violence (rockings/assaults on the Border Patrol) happens everyday in just about every Border Patrol area of responsibility. And unfortunately many Agents hesitate and second guess themselves on whether or not to treat the occurrence as a deadly-force situation in fear of investigation/punishment. Our country has gone soft in regards to illegal immigration. Our border security is a joke because illegal immigration is a friggin revolving door. Catch them at 4am, document/process them at 5am, return them back to Mexico at 6am, catch the same guy again at 7am. Repeat all night...
Being rocked by one or more individuals (even 15 yr old's) is a deadly-force situation. PERIOD. And no, you don't shoot to kill - you shoot to "stop the threat". If that means the "threat" dies, then so be it.
The Mexican government said that the Border Patrol Agent used a "disproportionate amount of force"....what's the Agent supposed to do, pick up rocks and throw them back??? LEO's are taught something called the "Escalation of Force". Meaning, someone comes at you with fist, you return with a baton; someone comes at you with a bat or rock (deadly force situation), you return with a firearm. Any situation where the LEO feels his or the public's life is in danger authorizes him to use deadly force (firearm).
Good shoot IMO.
This type of border violence (rockings/assaults on the Border Patrol) happens everyday in just about every Border Patrol area of responsibility. And unfortunately many Agents hesitate and second guess themselves on whether or not to treat the occurrence as a deadly-force situation in fear of investigation/punishment. Our country has gone soft in regards to illegal immigration. Our border security is a joke because illegal immigration is a friggin revolving door. Catch them at 4am, document/process them at 5am, return them back to Mexico at 6am, catch the same guy again at 7am. Repeat all night...
Being rocked by one or more individuals (even 15 yr old's) is a deadly-force situation. PERIOD. And no, you don't shoot to kill - you shoot to "stop the threat". If that means the "threat" dies, then so be it.
The Mexican government said that the Border Patrol Agent used a "disproportionate amount of force"....what's the Agent supposed to do, pick up rocks and throw them back??? LEO's are taught something called the "Escalation of Force". Meaning, someone comes at you with fist, you return with a baton; someone comes at you with a bat or rock (deadly force situation), you return with a firearm. Any situation where the LEO feels his or the public's life is in danger authorizes him to use deadly force (firearm).
Good shoot IMO.
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Joined: May 2007
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From: Watsonville, Ca.
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I am against illegals coming here without doing it legally. But the did was what 15?16? Understand he threw "rocks" and the BP Dood, just dont think it should have been a kill hit. An older man is understanding but 15/16 is still a kid to me..
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From: Watsonville, Ca.
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how scared can you be....kid throwing rock at you, and you have a killer gun...hahaha I would honestly laugh at him..maybe shoot him in the leg and tell him to throw a rock at me now...but kill, nahh ....
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Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Sacramento, CA
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I never questioned the lethality of a rock, I have no idea why you are trying to point out the danger of it when I already mentioned I know.
My point is the LEO didnt have to shoot his head, this is assuming he was 30 feet away like you used in your example. The LEO could probably put a bullet anywhere in a body from 30 feet away. I'm pretty sure the kid would have scattered with some warning shots, most people would lay down for cover if someone shot at them.
Using his firearm is totally a reasonable response, but shooting to kill is overboard when your rate of fire is 50 times faster than some kid picking up rocks and throwing them. He could totally have shot his shoulder, and waited to see if the kid would have tried again.
Last edited by skeeler; Jun 15, 2010 at 08:45 AM.
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My point is the LEO didnt have to shoot his head, this is assuming he was 30 feet away like you used in your example. The LEO could probably put a bullet anywhere in a body from 30 feet away. I'm pretty sure the kid would have scattered with some warning shots, most people would lay down for cover if someone shot at them.
Most depts train shooters to aim center mass of target.
This officer was most likely doing just that, but unfortunately for the kid, the kid probably ducked down, thus getting hit in the dome.
Bottom line is you should not throw rocks at people that carry guns.
If the kid would not have thrown rocks, he'd be alive today.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 334
From: Sacramento, CA
Car Info: 05 WRX sedan
You really believe that the officer purposely aimed at the kid's head?
Most depts train shooters to aim center mass of target.
This officer was most likely doing just that, but unfortunately for the kid, the kid probably ducked down, thus getting hit in the dome.
Bottom line is you should not throw rocks at people that carry guns.
If the kid would not have thrown rocks, he'd be alive today.
Most depts train shooters to aim center mass of target.
This officer was most likely doing just that, but unfortunately for the kid, the kid probably ducked down, thus getting hit in the dome.
Bottom line is you should not throw rocks at people that carry guns.
If the kid would not have thrown rocks, he'd be alive today.
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 99
From: SoCal
Car Info: 2005 Subaru WRX
You could dodge or catch a rock from 30 feet. This kid isnt throwing fast *****, and he most likely couldnt place an odd shaped rock on a target like a head. If he was kicking it, that might be a different story. A small attempt of humor there.
I never questioned the lethality of a rock, I have no idea why you are trying to point out the danger of it when I already mentioned I know.
My point is the LEO didnt have to shoot his head, this is assuming he was 30 feet away like you used in your example. The LEO could probably put a bullet anywhere in a body from 30 feet away. I'm pretty sure the kid would have scattered with some warning shots, most people would lay down for cover if someone shot at them.
Using his firearm is totally a reasonable response, but shooting to kill is overboard when your rate of fire is 50 times faster than some kid picking up rocks and throwing them. He could totally have shot his shoulder, and waited to see if the kid would have tried again.
I never questioned the lethality of a rock, I have no idea why you are trying to point out the danger of it when I already mentioned I know.
My point is the LEO didnt have to shoot his head, this is assuming he was 30 feet away like you used in your example. The LEO could probably put a bullet anywhere in a body from 30 feet away. I'm pretty sure the kid would have scattered with some warning shots, most people would lay down for cover if someone shot at them.
Using his firearm is totally a reasonable response, but shooting to kill is overboard when your rate of fire is 50 times faster than some kid picking up rocks and throwing them. He could totally have shot his shoulder, and waited to see if the kid would have tried again.
With that said - they are all taught to shoot "center mass", to aim for the torso in order to "stop the threat". This ain't the movies - do you know how hard it is to hit someone in the head from 20-30 feet away when your adrenaline is pumping and that person is moving around? The Border Patrol Agent was in fear for his life, drew his firearm as trained, and pointed it towards the threat and fired 2-3 rounds. I highly doubt he even looked through the sights. I've seen plenty of LEO gunfights where the LEO and dirtbag are about 5 feet from each other and both individuals completely miss their target.
I'm not trying to bash your opinion, I'm just trying to give you some insight on what an LEO goes through in situations like this. Ya know what I'm sayin?
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 99
From: SoCal
Car Info: 2005 Subaru WRX
You really believe that the officer purposely aimed at the kid's head?
Most depts train shooters to aim center mass of target.
This officer was most likely doing just that, but unfortunately for the kid, the kid probably ducked down, thus getting hit in the dome.
Bottom line is you should not throw rocks at people that carry guns.
If the kid would not have thrown rocks, he'd be alive today.
Most depts train shooters to aim center mass of target.
This officer was most likely doing just that, but unfortunately for the kid, the kid probably ducked down, thus getting hit in the dome.
Bottom line is you should not throw rocks at people that carry guns.
If the kid would not have thrown rocks, he'd be alive today.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 334
From: Sacramento, CA
Car Info: 05 WRX sedan
There is no argument that kid got himself in that situation, I dont know why you guys keep beating that with a stick - I agree.
The way you are all describing it is that the officer drew his gun and then just started firing his gun like he was never trained to use it. The guy is an officer, he should be very efficient with his weapon.
Say the kid is ducking down for cover, no longer a threat. Maybe he was running around, he isnt a quarter backer. He isnt a threat a that point.
The way you are all describing it is that the officer drew his gun and then just started firing his gun like he was never trained to use it. The guy is an officer, he should be very efficient with his weapon.
Say the kid is ducking down for cover, no longer a threat. Maybe he was running around, he isnt a quarter backer. He isnt a threat a that point.
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