Sell me on a Forester
01-20-2012, 03:53 PM
#76
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South Sunset
Posts: 562
Car Info: '12 TSX 6MT/'01 E39 wagon/'67 VW on E85/'93 M900
I haven't checked i-club in months, I come in and my name is mentioned lol.
I'll play devil's advocate. Having owned mine for almost 81K and having changed a bunch of stuff on it, here are some negatives I can come up with quickly:
* USDM FXT will be a let-down coming from an STi. Drivetrain just isn't as capable.
* Gearing is short, which can be fun off the line, but a WRX gearing would be my preference.
* Car is fairly small, though larger than WRX wagons because the hatch is more square.
* Nobody waves lol
* Even if you do lots of suspension tweaks, it still won't handle as well as an STi.
* Exhausts sound much louder than on a WRX due to huge open box cabin design
* Stock steering rack SUCK (though '04 STi one bolts right up and is lovely)
* Struts on all 4 corners suck for ride quality. Car rides harsh, even stock (subjective, though).
Some positives:
* You are virtually invisible to cops. I've gotten away with so much speeding.. though I'm very smooth on the freeway, I stay in one lane and usually follow a "sponsor".
* '04 STi parts bolt up
* You can carry a good amount of stuff in the back
* You can fit pretty wide wheels on it
I'm working on selling mine, I have someone interested from SoCal. I just put it back to stock engine-wise 2 days ago, but still have Swift springs, sways, STi rack and some bracing on it. If you are interested in getting a ride, I may be able to arrange that though my time is somewhat limited.
It's a fun car, but as every other car out there, there are positives and negatives. If I were to get another Subaru to replace the FXT, I'd want the '08+ STi or a Legacy.
Stan
I'll play devil's advocate. Having owned mine for almost 81K and having changed a bunch of stuff on it, here are some negatives I can come up with quickly:
* USDM FXT will be a let-down coming from an STi. Drivetrain just isn't as capable.
* Gearing is short, which can be fun off the line, but a WRX gearing would be my preference.
* Car is fairly small, though larger than WRX wagons because the hatch is more square.
* Nobody waves lol
* Even if you do lots of suspension tweaks, it still won't handle as well as an STi.
* Exhausts sound much louder than on a WRX due to huge open box cabin design
* Stock steering rack SUCK (though '04 STi one bolts right up and is lovely)
* Struts on all 4 corners suck for ride quality. Car rides harsh, even stock (subjective, though).
Some positives:
* You are virtually invisible to cops. I've gotten away with so much speeding.. though I'm very smooth on the freeway, I stay in one lane and usually follow a "sponsor".
* '04 STi parts bolt up
* You can carry a good amount of stuff in the back
* You can fit pretty wide wheels on it
I'm working on selling mine, I have someone interested from SoCal. I just put it back to stock engine-wise 2 days ago, but still have Swift springs, sways, STi rack and some bracing on it. If you are interested in getting a ride, I may be able to arrange that though my time is somewhat limited.
It's a fun car, but as every other car out there, there are positives and negatives. If I were to get another Subaru to replace the FXT, I'd want the '08+ STi or a Legacy.
Stan
Last edited by stan_t; 01-20-2012 at 03:56 PM.
01-20-2012, 04:15 PM
#77
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: the city of good living
Posts: 405
Car Info: 03 bucket stage 11/32
I haven't checked i-club in months, I come in and my name is mentioned lol.
I'll play devil's advocate. Having owned mine for almost 81K and having changed a bunch of stuff on it, here are some negatives I can come up with quickly:
* USDM FXT will be a let-down coming from an STi. Drivetrain just isn't as capable.
* Gearing is short, which can be fun off the line, but a WRX gearing would be my preference.
* Car is fairly small, though larger than WRX wagons because the hatch is more square.
* Nobody waves lol
* Even if you do lots of suspension tweaks, it still won't handle as well as an STi.
* Exhausts sound much louder than on a WRX due to huge open box cabin design
* Stock steering rack SUCK (though '04 STi one bolts right up and is lovely)
* Struts on all 4 corners suck for ride quality. Car rides harsh, even stock (subjective, though).
Some positives:
* You are virtually invisible to cops. I've gotten away with so much speeding.. though I'm very smooth on the freeway, I stay in one lane and usually follow a "sponsor".
* '04 STi parts bolt up
* You can carry a good amount of stuff in the back
* You can fit pretty wide wheels on it
I'm working on selling mine, I have someone interested from SoCal. I just put it back to stock engine-wise 2 days ago, but still have Swift springs, sways, STi rack and some bracing on it. If you are interested in getting a ride, I may be able to arrange that though my time is somewhat limited.
It's a fun car, but as every other car out there, there are positives and negatives. If I were to get another Subaru to replace the FXT, I'd want the '08+ STi or a Legacy.
Stan
I'll play devil's advocate. Having owned mine for almost 81K and having changed a bunch of stuff on it, here are some negatives I can come up with quickly:
* USDM FXT will be a let-down coming from an STi. Drivetrain just isn't as capable.
* Gearing is short, which can be fun off the line, but a WRX gearing would be my preference.
* Car is fairly small, though larger than WRX wagons because the hatch is more square.
* Nobody waves lol
* Even if you do lots of suspension tweaks, it still won't handle as well as an STi.
* Exhausts sound much louder than on a WRX due to huge open box cabin design
* Stock steering rack SUCK (though '04 STi one bolts right up and is lovely)
* Struts on all 4 corners suck for ride quality. Car rides harsh, even stock (subjective, though).
Some positives:
* You are virtually invisible to cops. I've gotten away with so much speeding.. though I'm very smooth on the freeway, I stay in one lane and usually follow a "sponsor".
* '04 STi parts bolt up
* You can carry a good amount of stuff in the back
* You can fit pretty wide wheels on it
I'm working on selling mine, I have someone interested from SoCal. I just put it back to stock engine-wise 2 days ago, but still have Swift springs, sways, STi rack and some bracing on it. If you are interested in getting a ride, I may be able to arrange that though my time is somewhat limited.
It's a fun car, but as every other car out there, there are positives and negatives. If I were to get another Subaru to replace the FXT, I'd want the '08+ STi or a Legacy.
Stan
Edit: I drive a wrx that had tein basics on it so that's where my subaru driving experience ends.
Last edited by 98eclipseRS; 01-20-2012 at 04:19 PM.
01-20-2012, 04:33 PM
#79
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Car Info: '12 TSX 6MT/'01 E39 wagon/'67 VW on E85/'93 M900
I never owned an STi, but I've driven Pete's '07. The center and rear diffs are totally different and do a _whole_ lot more than the simple WRX/Forester diffs do. People don't consider that when they think about handling. Another problem with upgrading Forester's suspension is a serious lack of options -- there are just no aftermarket struts made for the vehicle, except for GR2s. WRX/STi fitment stuff fits, but due to front subframe being spaced out almost an inch (lowers control arm pickup points, engine/tranny) the control arm geometry goes to s*** using anything lower than OEM STi springs.
It can be made to handle pretty well for what it is -- a tall wagon with a heavy ***. But, ultimately, it's still all up to the tires and driver anyway. It's just easier to modify WRX's suspension since parts are made directly for the platform, where Forester is a bit of a weirdo-mobile in that regard.
Coilovers would probably be the nicest option, Mann Engineering has a nice set that took a long time to develop.
Stan
It can be made to handle pretty well for what it is -- a tall wagon with a heavy ***. But, ultimately, it's still all up to the tires and driver anyway. It's just easier to modify WRX's suspension since parts are made directly for the platform, where Forester is a bit of a weirdo-mobile in that regard.
Coilovers would probably be the nicest option, Mann Engineering has a nice set that took a long time to develop.
Stan
Last edited by stan_t; 01-20-2012 at 04:37 PM.
01-20-2012, 04:35 PM
#80
The Seventh Sister
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Location: Alameda, CA
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Car Info: MY04 Forester XT
Just my .02 from what I've seen...
01-20-2012, 04:38 PM
#81
I haven't checked i-club in months, I come in and my name is mentioned lol.
I'll play devil's advocate. Having owned mine for almost 81K and having changed a bunch of stuff on it, here are some negatives I can come up with quickly:
* USDM FXT will be a let-down coming from an STi. Drivetrain just isn't as capable.
* Gearing is short, which can be fun off the line, but a WRX gearing would be my preference.
* Car is fairly small, though larger than WRX wagons because the hatch is more square.
* Nobody waves lol
* Even if you do lots of suspension tweaks, it still won't handle as well as an STi.
* Exhausts sound much louder than on a WRX due to huge open box cabin design
* Stock steering rack SUCK (though '04 STi one bolts right up and is lovely)
* Struts on all 4 corners suck for ride quality. Car rides harsh, even stock (subjective, though).
Some positives:
* You are virtually invisible to cops. I've gotten away with so much speeding.. though I'm very smooth on the freeway, I stay in one lane and usually follow a "sponsor".
* '04 STi parts bolt up
* You can carry a good amount of stuff in the back
* You can fit pretty wide wheels on it
I'm working on selling mine, I have someone interested from SoCal. I just put it back to stock engine-wise 2 days ago, but still have Swift springs, sways, STi rack and some bracing on it. If you are interested in getting a ride, I may be able to arrange that though my time is somewhat limited.
It's a fun car, but as every other car out there, there are positives and negatives. If I were to get another Subaru to replace the FXT, I'd want the '08+ STi or a Legacy.
Stan
I'll play devil's advocate. Having owned mine for almost 81K and having changed a bunch of stuff on it, here are some negatives I can come up with quickly:
* USDM FXT will be a let-down coming from an STi. Drivetrain just isn't as capable.
* Gearing is short, which can be fun off the line, but a WRX gearing would be my preference.
* Car is fairly small, though larger than WRX wagons because the hatch is more square.
* Nobody waves lol
* Even if you do lots of suspension tweaks, it still won't handle as well as an STi.
* Exhausts sound much louder than on a WRX due to huge open box cabin design
* Stock steering rack SUCK (though '04 STi one bolts right up and is lovely)
* Struts on all 4 corners suck for ride quality. Car rides harsh, even stock (subjective, though).
Some positives:
* You are virtually invisible to cops. I've gotten away with so much speeding.. though I'm very smooth on the freeway, I stay in one lane and usually follow a "sponsor".
* '04 STi parts bolt up
* You can carry a good amount of stuff in the back
* You can fit pretty wide wheels on it
I'm working on selling mine, I have someone interested from SoCal. I just put it back to stock engine-wise 2 days ago, but still have Swift springs, sways, STi rack and some bracing on it. If you are interested in getting a ride, I may be able to arrange that though my time is somewhat limited.
It's a fun car, but as every other car out there, there are positives and negatives. If I were to get another Subaru to replace the FXT, I'd want the '08+ STi or a Legacy.
Stan
01-20-2012, 04:51 PM
#82
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Location: the city of good living
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It's not that it drives like an SUV... because it doesn't. But it was obviously not designed with the same "performance" goals in mind as the WRX or STi - despite the fact that it is similarly equipped under the hood and is based on the same platform. In stock form you'll be battling a higher center of gravity and more body roll, and when lowered more than just an inch or so you're running into issues with suspension geometry. It requires a lot of tweaking to get near the point where handling will compare to a properly set up Impreza - at which point you'll realize that you're trying to reinvent the wheel. It depends on personal preference whether that's something you can live with and trade off for more cargo capacity, lower insurance rates, and an overall much lower profile appearance, or if your performance goals are such that you should've started with (or stuck with) a more capable platform in the beginning.
Just my .02 from what I've seen...
Just my .02 from what I've seen...
I appreciate the input, I do alot of outdoor activities(camping, biking, snowboarding, shooting, etc) so the extra cargo space over a wrx sedan would be great. As well as the insurance rates which are absolutely rediculous on the wrx and less attention from cops. Really I just want a vehicle that I can take lots of places that is fun to drive. I won't be tracking the car, I hardly go into the hills anymore in my car since I have a motorcycle. And like I said may auto x the thing once or twice max a year. So I don't need something that will blow the world away just something more fun than your typical suv/truck that is still capable of carrying more than a cooler and a couple fold up chairs.
01-20-2012, 10:24 PM
#83
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Leandro, CA
Posts: 3,856
Car Info: Forester XTi
1)The drivetrain is stronger not weaker than the sti, remember that the 04 and 05 do NOT use the WRX transmissions like the years after that, but use the JDM rally 5 speed, a much stronger, perhaps the strongest one ever made.
2)I will agree the gears are a bit short, but that is why its faster than the STI in the 1/4 and you don't have to rev the **** out of it in the twisties to out accelrate just about anything else.
3)If you couldn't get it to handle as well or better than a STI, you didn't have it set up right. Properly set up, the foresters 3" extra wheelbase should give you far more stablity in the corners and less understeer. (*note* it still wants to understeer like a *****!)
01-21-2012, 12:31 AM
#84
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Location: Sonoma County
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Car Info: '98/'04 Foresters (S & XT)
I hate to come in on this conversation, but there are a few misconceptions that I would like to clear up:
1. The Forester is based on the Impreza chassis, and has the EXACT SAME wheelbase as the Impreza and WRX platforms.
2. The final drive ratio changed in 2006 from 4.44:1 to 4.11:1 in order to increase fuel economy...the same year the engine was standardized for the Forester and the WRX.
3. Stock for stock, the Forester will NOT out handle the STI. Dropped down to the ground on a WRX suspension on lowering springs will help, driver skill will help, but it won't handle as well out of the box. Dollar for dollar, you won't catch an STI if they're as heavily modified as you are unless you have some serious driving skills.
1. The Forester is based on the Impreza chassis, and has the EXACT SAME wheelbase as the Impreza and WRX platforms.
2. The final drive ratio changed in 2006 from 4.44:1 to 4.11:1 in order to increase fuel economy...the same year the engine was standardized for the Forester and the WRX.
3. Stock for stock, the Forester will NOT out handle the STI. Dropped down to the ground on a WRX suspension on lowering springs will help, driver skill will help, but it won't handle as well out of the box. Dollar for dollar, you won't catch an STI if they're as heavily modified as you are unless you have some serious driving skills.
01-21-2012, 08:02 AM
#85
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Car Info: '12 TSX 6MT/'01 E39 wagon/'67 VW on E85/'93 M900
Okay, then we disagree, I'm not here to argue. I'm sure Noah, Adam or Paul can answer questions regarding FXT trannies if anyone contacts them. All I know is gearing for forward gears is identical for '04 though '08 models (reverse ratios are different, in case you are into racing backwards), and there is about an equal reporting of issues between '04/'05 and '06/'08 models. Tranny/clutch/driveshafts/diffs are identical as far as I'm concerned, but you may know better. I WISH my car came with a WRX transmission, but you are wrong there too.
Short gearing is fun, but when you are spinning 4K on the freeway for a few hours on a long trip, can get a bit old.
I've tried following strut/spring setups (not getting into bracing/bars and various strut spacers for different height):
* OEM Forester struts with stock springs and Forester Swift springs
* '04 WRX strut housings with Koni yellow inserts and following springs: RCE Wagons, STi Prodrive reds, OEM STi, WRX Wagon Swifts, '05 OEM WRX Wagon
* '04 STi Ohlin FPS with following springs: JDM STi Pinks, '05 OEM STi, STi Prodrive reds
It is very possible I did not have the right setup. Whacha runnin, holmes?
Difference between '04-'05 and '06-'08 (real STi engine -- OOOHH!!11!!) isn't **** to worry about -- they all crack pistons like it's 2008 when pushed too much. Static compression ratio is a bit higher in the later years, later years come with air pump, and later years come with the STi oil pan in case you want to run an EL header (which, I did) -- early cars have the bugeye pan.
EDIT: Oh yeah, wheel base is identical to the '04 STi, 99 inches I believe. The new one is 104, but don't quote me -- I'm too lazy to look it up now.
Stan
Short gearing is fun, but when you are spinning 4K on the freeway for a few hours on a long trip, can get a bit old.
I've tried following strut/spring setups (not getting into bracing/bars and various strut spacers for different height):
* OEM Forester struts with stock springs and Forester Swift springs
* '04 WRX strut housings with Koni yellow inserts and following springs: RCE Wagons, STi Prodrive reds, OEM STi, WRX Wagon Swifts, '05 OEM WRX Wagon
* '04 STi Ohlin FPS with following springs: JDM STi Pinks, '05 OEM STi, STi Prodrive reds
It is very possible I did not have the right setup. Whacha runnin, holmes?
Difference between '04-'05 and '06-'08 (real STi engine -- OOOHH!!11!!) isn't **** to worry about -- they all crack pistons like it's 2008 when pushed too much. Static compression ratio is a bit higher in the later years, later years come with air pump, and later years come with the STi oil pan in case you want to run an EL header (which, I did) -- early cars have the bugeye pan.
EDIT: Oh yeah, wheel base is identical to the '04 STi, 99 inches I believe. The new one is 104, but don't quote me -- I'm too lazy to look it up now.
Stan
Last edited by stan_t; 01-21-2012 at 09:19 AM.
01-21-2012, 09:27 AM
#86
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Final drive ratios on XTs are as follows:
'04-'08 5-speed and '04 4EAT: 4.44
'05-'08 4EAT: 4.11
Check cars101.com for exact specs, I'm on my phone.
Stan
'04-'08 5-speed and '04 4EAT: 4.44
'05-'08 4EAT: 4.11
Check cars101.com for exact specs, I'm on my phone.
Stan
01-21-2012, 11:49 AM
#88
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Car Info: Forester XTi
O.o when I took my tape to the 04, and went center to center, I came up 3" longer than the 04 STI, got some info on this as everything I have seen the forester chassis is 3" longer to acomodate the longer rear. (example, I know the driveline from a sti must be extended to fit the forester frame)
01-21-2012, 12:01 PM
#89
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There is no frame, it's a unibody car. How were you measuring? Keep in mind as you are raising/lowering the car, wheels will move forward/back a bit. cars101.com has the specs if you trust them.
I haven't ridden in an XT with fully-swapped STi drivetrain, but they are out there. There is a guy in the city with a white '05 and he is selling it (relatively) cheap, like 20K. That car is done right, puts down a bunch of power (Shiggy tuned?) and has a functioning DCCD. These swaps made sense before '08 because there was no STi with room for dogs/cargo, but with the appearance of a hatch it is extremely non-cost-effective IMO. Besides, I'll take shocks over struts ANY day, even if it's just in the back.
Here you go, that's as close as you'll come to eating STis for lunch in an XT: http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulle...-cusco-101297/
Stan
I haven't ridden in an XT with fully-swapped STi drivetrain, but they are out there. There is a guy in the city with a white '05 and he is selling it (relatively) cheap, like 20K. That car is done right, puts down a bunch of power (Shiggy tuned?) and has a functioning DCCD. These swaps made sense before '08 because there was no STi with room for dogs/cargo, but with the appearance of a hatch it is extremely non-cost-effective IMO. Besides, I'll take shocks over struts ANY day, even if it's just in the back.
Here you go, that's as close as you'll come to eating STis for lunch in an XT: http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulle...-cusco-101297/
Stan
01-21-2012, 12:22 PM
#90
Now, I'll agree that the FXT 5MT is stronger than the WRX 5MT, but definitely not the STi 6MT. Isn't that the main reason why the STi is heavier? Beefier drivetrain.
Last edited by subie OCD; 01-21-2012 at 12:24 PM.