Lowend

iTrader: (5)

There is nothing in the law to say you can't have ammo with you, so it's prefectly legal to carry a loaded magazine, it just can't be inserted (or touching the gun if I recall). I've seen plenty of open carry guys who keep a semi-auto on one hip in no magazine at all, and a loaded magazine on the other hip.

Personally, I think open carry is more trouble than it's worth. If the police respond to a "man with a gun" call; they are going to consider you a threat, and you can expect to be put on the ground a handcuffed until the the LEO's figure out what is happening. You really can't blame them, if I was an LEO, I wouldn't take a chance either.

If you want to overcome a bad situation, you certainly don't want to badguys to know you have a weapon until you use it.

Spoolin415

iTrader: (4)

And the mall ninja appears.

kspek

iTrader: (53)

there is nothing wrong with open carry but i will wait until hopefully we get incorporated with the 2nd amendment even though it is perfectly legal to do so now. calguns.net californiaopencarry.org and many other sites have very good information about this very topic.

psoper

I think most of those arguments, however well based in the understanding of our founding fathers, has been disproven so many times now that it is hardly worth discussing.

The US Civil War pretty much demonstrated that even reasonably well-armed militias are no match for national armies at the level the US was over 150 years ago, not to mention where we are today with world superpower status.

More recent incidents like Ruby Ridge and Waco to name but 2 of the most infamous such occurrences, should put to rest any rational person's believing that no matter how many guns they might own they have any chance of standing up against the "powers that be" in the USA, or just about anywhere else in the world.

Not bashing the 2nd amendment or anything- just pointing out how silly it is to think its original intent has any validity in the modern world.

CharT

iTrader: (3)

You have to be careful here. I'm not sure if the law is so clear about this as the magazine can be considered a part of the gun. A speedloader for revolvers would be different, but a magazine is a part of a semi-automatic and bullets loaded in the magazine could, in the legal sense, be construed as bullets loaded in the gun.

Spoolin415

iTrader: (4)

You can get around that my having an empty magazine in the gun.

Overbear

Actually no, you wont be on the ground and handcuffed, as this would violate section 12013(I think thats the number) and constitute a illegal arrest and detention, thereby opening up the LEO and city/county to a HUGE, unwinable lawsuit that every lawyer in the world would want to take.

In fact, if you open carry, a LEO can not even ask to handle the weapon in any way, other than to verify that it is unloaded. They can not run the SN#, or ask you for a "permit", its rather interesting if you do your study, just how much officers can NOT do.

Overbear

flatline

iTrader: (11)

Half true, Half false. If i see somebody with a gun on their hip, more than likely my gun will be pointed at them. Once i determine the firearm is unloaded they are free to go. I have reasonable suspicion to believe the firearm may be loaded and as a public safety issue, my duty to in fact ensure that person is complying with the law.

PER California Penal Code 12031(e)

(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are
authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on
any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer
to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.


Im completely PRO-GUN, but it doesnt really make sense to carry an unloaded firearm in public. You are asking for somebody with a concealed, loaded firearm to steal your gun.

Also, just because you may be handcuffed, doesnt mean your under arrest. People get handcuffed all the time for numerous reasons including but not limited to:

Unable to identify
Flight risk
Fight risk
May be armed
Probationer
Parolee
Person being non-cooperative

Remember, those handcuffs come off as easy as they go on.

Any other questions just ask me =) if i dont know ill find out.

Spoolin415

iTrader: (4)

Hey, look, someone else with common sense appears. The whole 'openly armed citizens deter criminals' thing only works if there are more openly armed good guys than bad guys. Provided, that is, if the good guys even have their sidearms loaded.

Be careful, you may now be an "antigunner" since you disagree with the almighty overbear.

shawnpdillon

As a resident of Pennsylvania, I always found the bulk of California's laws to be dumb, and this one is especially so.

UOC is a joke. In PA you can OC just about anywhere without a permit (Philadelphia requires a carry permit to OC), and a concealed carry permit is an easy item to attain. I should know, I have one.

ldivinag

iTrader: (3)

is this like a woman who wears scantily clothing asking someone to rape her?

[/sarcasm]


so in other words, a CRIMINAL who has an unlawful concealed firearm on themselves would rob me of my possesion?

shocking...

ldivinag

iTrader: (3)

that JUST THE PROBLEM...

getting a CCW license in kalifornia is so friggin difficult.

but, if you are a celebrity, or donated to the sheriff's re-election fund, there are good chances you will get one...

just take a look at that wack job SEAN PENN. he got a CCW from a very conservative city in marin county. of course he's been arrested numerous times. but hey... dont let that get in the way...

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/pennpermit1.html

flatline

iTrader: (11)

CCW's are basicaly non-existant in the bay area. Its sad citizens cant arm themselves to defend from criminals who dont legally own a firearm in the first place.

Overbear

I disagree with you on a few parts, and I do disagree on the handcuffing part as that has already been thru court down in San Diego and the courts found the police did not have the right to cuff someone just for UOC'ing.

But for the most part I will say im impressed with your post