Need some advice on my next step (legal or let it go)
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Everyone is telling me basically what I already knew and should of done some to prevent this from happening to me. However now I know for next time.
Basically what I want to do is sue him for copyright infringement for using these photos without permission for his personal profitable gain. However, he is probably not making much money from the photos now since the events were several months ago and people usually go onto his site and buy the photos the following week after the event. I assume he made several hundred dollars from each event, totally up to three events.
Ray, you said I might win the court case for copyright infringement but lawyer fees would cost me. Why is this? If I won the case couldn't I make him cover my lawyer fees?
Basically what I want to do is sue him for copyright infringement for using these photos without permission for his personal profitable gain. However, he is probably not making much money from the photos now since the events were several months ago and people usually go onto his site and buy the photos the following week after the event. I assume he made several hundred dollars from each event, totally up to three events.
Ray, you said I might win the court case for copyright infringement but lawyer fees would cost me. Why is this? If I won the case couldn't I make him cover my lawyer fees?
What I would do is figure out how to protect ALL of those photos. Then you can sue him based on usage. Like how many times a photo gets hit on his website, how many times he sells a print, how many times he uses it in an ad, etc. A lawyer in that case would just take some of the income from the suit.
But I didn't go that far. For me it was just a few hundred bucks and the dude was trying to fight me and get me to walk in to an *** wooping from his bouncers. Just wasn't worth it. I just walked away and took the lesson.
But in your case it might be worth it... 5000 images is a load of images.
I'd just do some google searches on copyright infringement cases.
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I believe it is $600 a year from the same place, don't quote me on that though. I NEVER take money under the table. I ask the company I am working for to run it through pay roll or I 1099 it at the end of the year.
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600 a year gets u a 1099, yes, per employer. say u made $800 from one, and 700 from another. u get 2. but yea 1099s are good friends
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As a photographer, it pains me to say this, but the outlook ain't good, man.
Not only was there clearly no written agreement between you and him, but you were getting paid under the table. This does not bode well.
Although, in most cases, even the threat of Small Claims Action (which would force him to have to come up to Northern California, where your issue resides, and have him traveling, paying legal fees, etc.) can be enough to get someone to pay up. Especially such a small amount. If you file, I think filing a small claims action is almost $200 in and of itself, so that immediately becomes not worth it, unless you bring to his attention that you're happy to do it just to make his life suck.
Under the table or not, in the past you were licensing your images to him (albeit, everything in this verbal agreement was verbal), you'd have to prove that he said he'd pay you. Or that he hadn't already paid you. Or that what he had already paid you wasn't to cover the images you're now fighting to get paid over. When filing a small claims action, the Plaintiff must always prove his case entirely. The Defendant need not disprove your case. If you don't prove your case, he can do nothing at all and you lose. And if you lose, you cannot refile and try to get another judge/commissioner. You lose. End of story.
Suing for copyright infringement sometimes isn't worth for tens of thousands of dollars. Doing so for a few hundred just isn't going to be worth it in that respect. It's a long, drawn out process. Can be very expensive. And copyright lawyers know they have you by the *****, so they charge astronomical hourly rates and often times require hefty retainers.
My recommendation: Send him a cease and desist order and a bill for payment. Acknowledge that when you are paid, the cease and desist order will drop, and the images are his to use as he pleases, knowing that you still retain full copyrights, but you give him an unlimited print, marketing, and resale release to use and sell the images as he sees fit (that was probably, in some form of language, the original intent of your verbal agreement anyway).
Good luck.
Also, ALWAYS, ALWAYS go legit. Get everything in writing. EVERYTHING. Keep track of emails, phone calls, text messages, and verbal in-person conversations. Get a business license. Insurance (equipment and liability). Pay your taxes, both sales and income, and federal and state. Do the right thing. You'd be shocked how many photographers I know that don't pay their taxes, and do everything in scumbaggy fashion.
Not only was there clearly no written agreement between you and him, but you were getting paid under the table. This does not bode well.
Although, in most cases, even the threat of Small Claims Action (which would force him to have to come up to Northern California, where your issue resides, and have him traveling, paying legal fees, etc.) can be enough to get someone to pay up. Especially such a small amount. If you file, I think filing a small claims action is almost $200 in and of itself, so that immediately becomes not worth it, unless you bring to his attention that you're happy to do it just to make his life suck.
Under the table or not, in the past you were licensing your images to him (albeit, everything in this verbal agreement was verbal), you'd have to prove that he said he'd pay you. Or that he hadn't already paid you. Or that what he had already paid you wasn't to cover the images you're now fighting to get paid over. When filing a small claims action, the Plaintiff must always prove his case entirely. The Defendant need not disprove your case. If you don't prove your case, he can do nothing at all and you lose. And if you lose, you cannot refile and try to get another judge/commissioner. You lose. End of story.
Suing for copyright infringement sometimes isn't worth for tens of thousands of dollars. Doing so for a few hundred just isn't going to be worth it in that respect. It's a long, drawn out process. Can be very expensive. And copyright lawyers know they have you by the *****, so they charge astronomical hourly rates and often times require hefty retainers.
My recommendation: Send him a cease and desist order and a bill for payment. Acknowledge that when you are paid, the cease and desist order will drop, and the images are his to use as he pleases, knowing that you still retain full copyrights, but you give him an unlimited print, marketing, and resale release to use and sell the images as he sees fit (that was probably, in some form of language, the original intent of your verbal agreement anyway).
Good luck.
Also, ALWAYS, ALWAYS go legit. Get everything in writing. EVERYTHING. Keep track of emails, phone calls, text messages, and verbal in-person conversations. Get a business license. Insurance (equipment and liability). Pay your taxes, both sales and income, and federal and state. Do the right thing. You'd be shocked how many photographers I know that don't pay their taxes, and do everything in scumbaggy fashion.
Last edited by Prettym1k3; Nov 14, 2012 at 04:26 PM.
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As a photographer, it pains me to say this, but the outlook ain't good, man.
Not only was there clearly no written agreement between you and him, but you were getting paid under the table. This does not bode well.
Although, in most cases, even the threat of Small Claims Action (which would force him to have to come up to Northern California, where your issue resides, and have him traveling, paying legal fees, etc.) can be enough to get someone to pay up. Especially such a small amount. If you file, I think filing a small claims action is almost $200 in and of itself, so that immediately becomes not worth it, unless you bring to his attention that you're happy to do it just to make his life suck.
Under the table or not, in the past you were licensing your images to him (albeit, everything in this verbal agreement was verbal), you'd have to prove that he said he'd pay you. Or that he hadn't already paid you. Or that what he had already paid you wasn't to cover the images you're now fighting to get paid over. When filing a small claims action, the Plaintiff must always prove his case entirely. The Defendant need not disprove your case. If you don't prove your case, he can do nothing at all and you lose. And if you lose, you cannot refile and try to get another judge/commissioner. You lose. End of story.
Suing for copyright infringement sometimes isn't worth for tens of thousands of dollars. Doing so for a few hundred just isn't going to be worth it in that respect. It's a long, drawn out process. Can be very expensive. And copyright lawyers know they have you by the *****, so they charge astronomical hourly rates and often times require hefty retainers.
My recommendation: Send him a cease and desist order and a bill for payment. Acknowledge that when you are paid, the cease and desist order will drop, and the images are his to use as he pleases, knowing that you still retain full copyrights, but you give him an unlimited license to use and sell the images as he sees fit (that was probably, in some form of language, the original intent of your verbal agreement anyway).
Good luck.
Also, ALWAYS, ALWAYS go legit. Business license. Insurance (equipment and liability). Pay your taxes, both sales and income, federal and state. Do the right thing. You'd be shocked how many photographers I know that don't pay their taxes, and do everything in scumbaggy fashion.
Not only was there clearly no written agreement between you and him, but you were getting paid under the table. This does not bode well.
Although, in most cases, even the threat of Small Claims Action (which would force him to have to come up to Northern California, where your issue resides, and have him traveling, paying legal fees, etc.) can be enough to get someone to pay up. Especially such a small amount. If you file, I think filing a small claims action is almost $200 in and of itself, so that immediately becomes not worth it, unless you bring to his attention that you're happy to do it just to make his life suck.
Under the table or not, in the past you were licensing your images to him (albeit, everything in this verbal agreement was verbal), you'd have to prove that he said he'd pay you. Or that he hadn't already paid you. Or that what he had already paid you wasn't to cover the images you're now fighting to get paid over. When filing a small claims action, the Plaintiff must always prove his case entirely. The Defendant need not disprove your case. If you don't prove your case, he can do nothing at all and you lose. And if you lose, you cannot refile and try to get another judge/commissioner. You lose. End of story.
Suing for copyright infringement sometimes isn't worth for tens of thousands of dollars. Doing so for a few hundred just isn't going to be worth it in that respect. It's a long, drawn out process. Can be very expensive. And copyright lawyers know they have you by the *****, so they charge astronomical hourly rates and often times require hefty retainers.
My recommendation: Send him a cease and desist order and a bill for payment. Acknowledge that when you are paid, the cease and desist order will drop, and the images are his to use as he pleases, knowing that you still retain full copyrights, but you give him an unlimited license to use and sell the images as he sees fit (that was probably, in some form of language, the original intent of your verbal agreement anyway).
Good luck.
Also, ALWAYS, ALWAYS go legit. Business license. Insurance (equipment and liability). Pay your taxes, both sales and income, federal and state. Do the right thing. You'd be shocked how many photographers I know that don't pay their taxes, and do everything in scumbaggy fashion.
Thanks everyone for the input.
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Take this as a lesson and always cover your own back. There is definitely a minimum for how much is worth taking to court with lawyer fees. Or else your lawyer would just lolyer at you.
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