I wanted STI driver's opnions mainly because of gearing.
It seems that I spend a huge amount of time shifting the 6mt. Yet, if I reduce my shift time, rev won't fall properly and car will jerk going into gear.
I have some Best Motoring video where they are testing the new age STI, 100% stock car, those shifts seem both fast and smooth. I wonder how they do that.

We have a tach for the engine RPM. But sometimes I wish we have a tach for the clutch RPM as well. This way, just superimpose 1 tach on top of the other tach, then you know exactly where the RPM need to be to release clutch. 100% smooth every time. Better yet, use a beep tone when the two tach needle match so that you don't even have to look.

Double-clutching in most cases is not so necessary, it helps and it's better for your car - but that's what synchros are for. Keep in mind, the point of double-clutching is to re-align the engine/tranny to the same speed - so there is no point in grabbing 3rd before you grab 2nd on the way from 4th. You can approach the corner, go to nuetral + let out the clutch, hit the road speed for 2nd (rev the engine to where it will be in 2nd at that speed), push in the clutch, grab 2nd and go. Hope that makes sense. In most cases unless double-clutching is necessary or just fun (I enjoy this sort of thing) I don't - but I know my tranny pretty well. I just pop it in gear, but remember - if it's HARD to get into gear, you are doing something wrong. When it's hard, it's your synchros that are taking the beating and/or your extra effort needed to PUSH it into gear.

I would DEFINITELY not give up on double clutching. I have been driving since age 15 and I learned mostly from my dad, who is an excellent driver and has had lots of road racing experience back in the day when these things were more important. Even to this day, though I am pretty good at it, I still consider that I learn things and 'get better' every time I drive (am 28 now). Don't give up, just be patient, slow, exaggerate your movements when possible and don't expect to learn it overnight. I have been teaching my g/f how to rev-match and double clutch for about 6 months and it turns out she has been practicing and learning quite well in her car. We went for a drive down hwy 9 last weekend and she said "can I drive and you can help me rev-match?" I said sure and proceeded to be amazed as she drove like a mofo back up 9 in my RS (w/ Exedy clutch and light flywheel) rev-matching every shift PERFECTLY. Just give it time. :)

The fact that you noted how it upsets the chassis less means you are already learning. Good jorb! You will continue to refine and learn more as you get used to your car. Then the dealer will adjust your clutch for you and you get to start over! haha.. j/k

-Jacob

[QUOTE=98ss]Thanks for the great feedback.
Here is my issue.
I can do both regular single clutch downshift and also double clutch downshift.
It seems that when I do single clutch downshift, I don't have to rev as much and I can get the rev match better.
When I do double clutch downshift, I have to rev a heck a lot more and doesn't seem to match the revs as well.

But double clutch does seem to upset the chasis less, even when I don't match perfectly.

So what does everyone think? Should I keep on trying double clutch and hope to get it done better? Or should I give up double clutch and go back to single clutch downshift?

Either way, I find that when I am coming to a sharp corner, where I have to drop 2 gears, I don't have enough time. I'd have to downshift at least 300-400 feet ahead in order to go from 4-3-2 and get ready for turn.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=98ss]I wanted STI driver's opnions mainly because of gearing.
It seems that I spend a huge amount of time shifting the 6mt. Yet, if I reduce my shift time, rev won't fall properly and car will jerk going into gear.
I have some Best Motoring video where they are testing the new age STI, 100% stock car, those shifts seem both fast and smooth. I wonder how they do that.

We have a tach for the engine RPM. But sometimes I wish we have a tach for the flywheel RPM as well. This way, just superimpose 1 tach on top of the other tach, then you know exactly where the RPM need to be to release clutch. 100% smooth every time.[/QUOTE]

You mean clutch RPM? The tach shows you your flywheel RPM as it's bolted to the engine's crankshaft. Either way your 'clutch tach' is your speedometer as you get to know your car better.

I would be happy to take you for a spin in my car (or yours, but you'd prolly feel better about me driving mine) and show you 'how they do that' as well as do it slowly so you can watch what me feet are doing. It's fun. I would also be happy to jump in your car and show you that it has a LOT more to do with the driver than the specific car. I have never driven an STi.

-Jacob

Yes I mean clutch RPM.
Wombat where are you located? I hope I can find a fellow scooby lover in the Santa Clara/Sunnyvale/Mountainview area. Livermore and east bay is to far to make a dedicated trip on, unless there are some other events.

FYI I also find that having a little louder exhaust does wonders for learning how to downshift better. If you can use your ears to know where your engine is at, you don't need to look.. Just a thought.

-Jacob

Yes, louder exhaust would probably help, but find even the stock STI exhaust to be on the boomy side, so I won't be swapping out to a new exhaust any time soon.
I would like to keep the STI as stock as possible and improve the nut behind the wheel first.

[QUOTE=98ss]Yes, louder exhaust would probably help, but find even the stock STI exhaust to be on the boomy side, so I won't be swapping out to a new exhaust any time soon.
I would like to keep the STI as stock as possible and improve the nut behind the wheel first.[/QUOTE]

Ah, that's right. Haven't heard it from inside the car tho so I didn't know. My WRX was whisper quiet.

That is an AWESOME point of view and plan. I commend you and I am sure you'll do fine!!! Seriously, it's so rare to hear even at the race track where it's critical.

-Jacob

I say, go driving in the mountains man. If you have only driven stick for 2000 miles, you NEED to get good at just regular ol daily driving.

Get to some back roads in Santa Cruz, or make a treck up to Mount Hamilton, Stock on an uphill incline, then without using your ebrake take off from a dead stop.

Also, practice making your shifts smooth as possible.

In MY honest opinion, you should cover the basics before learning shift tricks.
Rev matching is good to know though, makes for [b]smooth[/b] downshifts. :)

PM me and I will take you on a tour of some of the backroads at friendly speeds for any driver on the weekend. :)

Well after seeing how they drive on the Best Motoring video, I know the ability of my car far surpass mine. Any more power at this point would just do me harm and void my warranty.
STI should allow me to chase down 90% of the cars on the road, till I do that, I won't be modding anytime soon.
Right now, I get beat by everything from 10 year old Corollas to pick up trucks.
Sometimes I wish that I'd have gotten the LGT with the 5EAT and just chip it and enjoy the drive instead of stressed out on shifting.

But looking back, it's a nice learning experience.

I wonder if there are any local south bay subaru events that are more casual and not as hard core. Any one have suggestions?
Something that oriented more toward stick shift newbies?
I will attend Doc Wongs for sure, but the next one isn't till end of April. Meanwhile is there anything else before then?

[QUOTE=wombatsauce][b]Good jorb![/b]

-Jacob[/QUOTE]

Hahahaha, Strong Bad rules.

-GDO

[QUOTE=98ss]I wonder if there are any local south bay subaru events that are more casual and not as hard core. Any one have suggestions?
Something that oriented more toward stick shift newbies?
I will attend Doc Wongs for sure, but the next one isn't till end of April. Meanwhile is there anything else before then?[/QUOTE]

Come out to Pizza & Pipes Tonight on Lawrence & Homestead, I'm sure there are people there who could offer you some tips. I think I'll be there later tonight in my car, so maybe we'll have a beer or something and chat :)

-GDO

Tonight is a bad night. I have to drive family to SFO. Maybe later in the weeks and weekend. I hope this rain would stop. My car look like a mud ball.

Well I learned stick on a combination of 2 cars, a '90 Legacy sedan awd and my friends 02 WRX. But I know what you mean about feeling slow. I've been driving my 99RS for a year now and it was my first stick car. In that time I've gotten comfortable upshifting, downshifting and occasional double clutch downshift even though its not necessary. When I first started driving the RS I got beat by everything just since I was still getting used to 5MT.

The thing that still ticks me off is stop and go traffic when you slow down and almost begin to bog 2nd because traffic is just crawling, then go to neutral, then you have to rev match the crap out of 1st because these trannies don't like going into that gear from even a slight roll. Also sucks throwing it in neutral and stopping at a light, only to have the light turn green 1/2 a second later then you have to throw it back in 1st really quick and get moving because there's traffic speeding up behind you...

[QUOTE=98ss]I wonder if there are any local south bay subaru events that are more casual and not as hard core. Any one have suggestions?
Something that oriented more toward stick shift newbies?
I will attend Doc Wongs for sure, but the next one isn't till end of April. Meanwhile is there anything else before then?[/QUOTE]

My g/f and I, and sometimes a few friends often head down 9 or bear creek, 35, 84, you name it, or up to Hammy, etc and it's never a quest to roll the car. I will PM you next time we head out for a spin, and you are welcome to come along. I have been rolling on stock WRX tires for a while now, so that should set the mood for my pace of late. Once the S-03's go back on it will get a little faster, but not much. Tons of fun, great scenery, and learning every mile that passes by. Most of my learning has occurred just cruising down nice roads with nowhere in particular to go.

mcdrama - I will take you up on the driving one of these days. I know a lot of good roads, but they are still fun to drive. Would be fun to cruise with other subys some time. We should do a 'southbay drive' or sumpin.. :)

IMHO, learning how to properly operate your transmission is a fundamental part of learning the basics. I love rev matching and there are times it "gets fancy" but for the most part, for me, it's part of operating a car smoothly and properly. "Study slow to learn fast" is a good policy. Exaggerate your movements and actions and before you know it, it's second nature. My first road course instructor taught me that, and it stuck.

-Jacob