Hello all,

As you know, our bay area roads are jacked in some places and GREAT in other places, so I come to ask you about what suspension upgrades would be idea for bay area driving. My style of driving requires a good amount of stiffness with minimal body roll but with out going to coil overs.

Here's what I had in mind:

1. I need some stiff struts/shocks to go with my swift springs. Right now I have far too much body roll from just the springs alone so I wanted to get some shocks that would help out in that dept. Can anyone recommend some good shocks that will go well together with my swift springs? Stiffer the better, I don't mind the ride discomfort, I actually like it!


2. Sway bar. I'm looking to upgrade my rear sway bar to something really beefy since the 20mm and 23mm are for nancy boys. Are there bigger diameter sway bars available for an 06-07 STi? I don't think I'm going to upgrade my front bar as it will negate the large bar in the back, and the whole reason was to be able to swing the rear around much easier, so a large rear bar. Can someone recommend a good large diameter rear sway bar for me? I know someone who runs a 26mm bar on his 1999 2.5RS which is large, I'd want something that compared to that but I don't know what size the GD chassis would need to equal the 26mm on my friends 2.5RS.

I've been out of the suspension scene for a while now as you can see and need all the help I can get.

This setup would be used for bay area track days on tracks such as thunder hill, laguna, and willow springs, spirited background driving, and commuting. I know a to of you hate having a super stuff ride when commuting but I friggin LOVE IT!!!

Bay Area vendors, can you guys recommend anything you have in stock or could otherwise get in stock? I wont buy from anywhere other then our select bay area vendors, no way, no how, so it's crucial that you guys can get the stuff that I'm talking about (well, what I described, I'm sure you'll know what to suggest because you guys rockx0rz!)


Cliff notes: I need some shocks that will give my car a really stiff ride with minimal if not any body roll, these shocks would be combined with swift springs for my 2007 STi. I also need a very beefy rear sway bar, what's the biggest one they make for that year? 20-23mm is a joke and is not what I'm looking for, I need something in the high 20mm range.

Please help a brother out!

 

Remember, the stiffer the ride, and with the least amount of body roll is what I'm looking for! Not some middle road compromise that I'd regret getting. I know theres gotta be something that can be done for me here...

 

if you dont mind stiffness, id say get coils? i went from spec-c struts/springs to bc br coilovers and the difference is biiig...as far as sways, i think whiteline makes 27mm sway bars..check the vendor websites

 

I can't afford coils at the moment, or for a long long time for that matter cuz we just put an offer on a house, so this is what I have to work with, and am looking for the stiffest possible way to do it with this type of set up. (I allready have swift springs installed)

Anyone make a 30mm sway bar?

 

I would recommend Koni yellows but I do not know what they specifically offer for the STi. I have used these (inserts) on 4 different cars now and they are fantastic. The inserts have to be assembled using the stock struts, but this is not hard if you have the right tools (vice, saw, drill, etc). Many people (including me) can help with this. I have my most recent set on my MR2 and they are AWESOME especially on a light car.

Other than that you will need to move to some sort of coilover setup - this will increase wheel control and simultaneously lower unsprung weight. I have heard good things about the Swifts but do not know about them personally. You need to be careful with ultra-stiff springs and swaybars because neither works well with bumps!! The stiffer the swaybar the greater chance one side has to upset the other. Super stiff suspensions are for race tracks.*

As for my car, I am leaning toward Koni yellows in stock struts, with a Ground Control coilover conversion. I will use a stock WRX 20mm rear swaybar because it worked well for me in my much heavier '01 2.5RS coupe. Probably go with a stock RS sway up front - keep them as small as possible.

Honestly from your posts it sounds like your money will be best spent on some track days. They are SUPER fun and you will come away with not only totally different ideas about what your car "needs" but a much better sense of how to handle your car near the limit, no matter how you drive on public roads. I recommend Thunderhill and if you need any help or whatever - please PM me. If you want to work during a race and basically be in the action, let me know. Nothing gets you stoked to get on a track like being at a race... Nothing teaches you about your car like being on a track!

For those that think stiff sway bars are the key to a good suspension, think about the first Lotus Elise models. Rated one of the best handling cars in the world and it did not even have a front or rear sway bar.... Food for thought!!











*Disclaimer: yes there are those that feel the need to run roll cages, non-reclining race seats, 5-point harnesses and suuuuuper stiff suspensions on the street. There are also people that pierce their faces or brand themselves. So...

 

Don't be too put down by that for your 30mm swaybar dream... remember that an s2000 comes stock with 25mm swaybars or so... if not larger.

 

Something that is kind of fun to try is to mess with an adjustable suspension. For a recent track day, I had my Koni's locked down nearly all the way stiff (as set by Brandon @ Roger Kraus who is the man to ask about suspensions IMHO). On the road it was actually pretty uncomfortable, and my wife and sister both complained about it. What's funny is after I backed them down a bit, I feel like I can not only carry more speed but feel much more planted and in control with the struts a little softer – on the road. Anyway it's pretty cool to mess with them. I have spent whole days out on the back roads with a few of my past cars (and a friend's Civic Si with a very expensive TEIN setup).

My pops spent loads of time on race tracks and set up many many race cars for people to take on Laguna and Sears back in the 60's and 70's. He always said the best setup (back then) was a fairly soft spring and the best dampers you could find with a stronger rebound than compression (or having both adjustable). He said this worked with the springs in corners so that through a corner the car would lower (since the shock would rebound slower than it would compress) thereby effectively stiffening the suspension in corners. I think that is how "progressive" springs are supposed to work (the softer part gets compressed by the compression/rebound characteristics of the shock leaving only the stiffer part of the spring in play through the corner) however I rarely hear of anyone putting any thought into the adjustment. Not sure if it's not valid any more for some reason... Hoping someone who actually knows about this stuff will comment.

There are cars and setups that work well enough with huge sway bars too. Shoot you could make a whole Impreza out of a CMC Camaro front swaybar. It's just like everything else - all things in moderation. Over-swaying a car will add other changes you might like less than body roll in certain places/situations. Find what works best for you of course. See what successful Subaru cars are using on road courses. Talk to people who regularly track their fast street car – hopefully someone like this will post here.

 

As an STi owner, you have two strut options.

A - Koni inserts ($800)

B - Ohlins fixed perch struts ($2,000)

The Konis are cheaper but require you to source some used struts (04 wrx I think) and cut them apart to install the inserts. The Ohlins are bolt on, 25 way adjustable and two thousand bucks.

 

it might be cheaper to buy coils and sell your swift springs than to get struts since as stated above your options are slim and pretty expensive as well.

 

save up and do it right once. buy the olhins with some rce yellow springs. i believe ed @eqtuning has the springs and i bet licmotorsports can source the struts
*Edit* didnt see you had the swift springs, just keep those and run them with the olhins

 

yeah i would just get some koni's. for the price and performance, you cant really beat it. I run prodrive springs and koni yellows on my wrx wagon and love the setup, and i have a similar preference for car feel. i have had two bugeyes previously, both with prodrive springs on stock struts, and the koni's really added to the whole suspension package. i also run a cusco rear sway set at 23mm, kartboy rear endlinks, and noltec front endlinks, stock front sway (although i wish i had a front swaybar). this is a pretty good for bay area streets and spirited driving in the hills.

if you want all out full stiff, you're gonna have to go with ohlins struts or a legit set of coils. you definitely get what you pay for.

 

For struts hands down if you have the money the Ohlins fixed perch struts are going to be perfect for you. They offer a wide range of adjustments from soft to fairly stiff and are well made. As far as sway bars go I would recommend either the whitline 24mm rear sway bar or the RCE 25mm rear sway bar. Both fit well and are larger then what you have now. Below are links to the products from our website if you want to take a look at them.

http://finelineimports.net/index.php...roducts_id=685


http://finelineimports.net/index.php...roducts_id=614

 

What struts are you considering, and which Swifts (rates?)

Our roads are messed up here. I've tried stiffer and lower springs and kept going softer and higher. I ended up with WRX struts, Koni inserts, '05 STi springs, 22mm rear bar on stiffest setting, 25mm front bar on softest setting. IMO if you go any lower, you'll loose suspension travel and handling on our crappy roads will suffer. Our cars weigh about the same. Tire profile will play a role also, I'm running 225/45/18s right now on 17.7lbs wheels.

I've tried RCE wagons springs, Prodrive '05+ STi springs and some Forester-specific stuff. Swift R-specs or RCE blacks should be awesome if you are looking for stiffer springs. Struts will not do anything in regards to body roll, it's all springs and sways. I've had alot less body roll in my car before, but actually found it to handle better WITH body roll.

Stan

 

Koni makes 2 kinds of inserts. You only really see the single adjustables around, but you can get 8611s too (double adjustable) presumably this is due to price, as the 8611s are also about double the price ($300-320 per corner). However they are high quality / high performance struts that are on one car or another at national autocross competitions every year, and are better than some of the struts in inexpensive coilover setups.

Ground control makes full coilovers that are really just a bunch of individual pieces that you can build piecewise as budget allows:
http://www.ground-control-store.com/...p/II=829/CA=90

Call them to discuss pieces.

Or you can go the route many go, keep an eye on the classifieds and buy used coilovers.


As far as swaybars, I assume you're trying to tune over / understeer with sways, and that's well and good, but IMO the best way to deal with that is to get rear adjustable lower arms (Whiteline, beatrush, perrin, whatever brand you prefer) so you can easily and reliably adjust camber in the rear, then go with an alignment that gets what you want.

Camber makes a big difference in terms of how the car handles. Aligning to factory specs is garbage (usually -0.6 front and -1.1 rear). You can push front camber up to -1.0* to -1.2* without crazy bad tire wear if you keep toe at 0*. This will increase front grip and reduce understeer. The rears are fixed when stock, but if you get adjustable rear bars, you can move camber slightly more positive (-0.8 or so) to let the *** slide a little. Making rear camber more positive will have large effects on how much the rear slides, so don't go too big here.

The resultant tire wear is not bad. Fronts wear on the inside and rears on the outside, so the end result is not terrible. I usually have about 2/10ths in the middle when my sidewalls are bare. You do have to be good about rotating, though.

Overall tire life is actually better than stock alignment for me, because I was wearing down the outside of my tires big time with the stock alignment. This puts wear on the insides of the fronts when cruising and the outsides when driving hard. You can't really get even wear unless you almost exclusively do one or the other.

You can get more aggressive on the camber all around and performance gets better, but tire life will start decreasing at some point. It depends a lot on your ratio of straight line cruising (freeway) to perofrmance driving.

IMO getting the right camber settings >>> swapping swaybars all around. STis have decently thick sways that you probably want to focus on other areas (alignment, stiffer bushings, roll center correction, chassis stiffening, etc...)

That's all just my $0.02 based on experiences I've had, which is all daily driving and the occasional freeway ramp or offshoot romp on mines or hammy. No competition or anything like that.

 

I recommend calling a few bay area shops and getting there input. Its alot to talk about over the internet. You can shoot me a call at the shop or PM me for my cell number and we can shoot the **** about you suspension and find out best works for your and your driving style.


Ryan
Fine Line Imports