Evo owner considering STI purchase--interested in exchanging test drives?
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 245
From: SF, CA
Car Info: 04 WRX STi - Aspen White
Originally Posted by dahveed
I have to say the WRX and STi will bring the tail out on throttle lift, this has been confirmed in in-car videos of crashes (remember that late '90s legacy following the Porsche at Lime Rock?).
I got to experince this first hadn on my STi. Getting off the gas coming out of a turn is just as bad as bitting a bunch of brakes. Insta oversteer.
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From: Snatchin' your people up
Car Info: Hilux Double Cab with a Dishka on top
Originally Posted by netzr0
yup yup!
I got to experince this first hadn on my STi. Getting off the gas coming out of a turn is just as bad as bitting a bunch of brakes. Insta oversteer.
I got to experince this first hadn on my STi. Getting off the gas coming out of a turn is just as bad as bitting a bunch of brakes. Insta oversteer.
so will anyone give this guy a shot in their STi???
honestly, you sound like the perfect STi driver. everything you describr is very much been talked about, and since you are looking for a s"stock" ride, the STi sounds better for what you are looking for.
so seriously, anyone with an STi be willing to give this guys a ride, or a drive?
josh
honestly, you sound like the perfect STi driver. everything you describr is very much been talked about, and since you are looking for a s"stock" ride, the STi sounds better for what you are looking for.
so seriously, anyone with an STi be willing to give this guys a ride, or a drive?
josh
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 726
From: Sunnyvale
Car Info: '99 Impreza OBS
Hehe, I find this thread kinda funny. A dude asks to test drive cuz he thinks the STi might be better than an evo, and instead of someone offering him a ride so he can see for himslef everyone goes into a tangent about handling An interesting one, but I think someone needs to lend him their STi. Oh yea and good luck rapture!
An interesting one, but I think someone needs to lend him their STi. Oh yea and good luck rapture!
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Thanks Josh. I've gotten in touch with Alex and we're gonna meet up this weekend for the test drives.
Appreciate the input everyone. I had no idea we had such a great community here in the Bay Area. Makes me want to get an STI just so I can go to meets with you guys and talk cars!
Appreciate the input everyone. I had no idea we had such a great community here in the Bay Area. Makes me want to get an STI just so I can go to meets with you guys and talk cars!
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Evo vs. STI Review
Just test drove Alex's '05 STI yesterday evening.
Alex--thanks a lot, I appreciate the drive! Hope you enjoyed taking out the Evo.
Now, my thoughts on the car compared to the Evo...
----------------
Engine:
The STI has far less lag than my Evo, and a much more usable powerband. It also doesn't have the surging problem, and is much more responsive in general. It doesn't have the "rubber-bandy" feeling of the Evo's motor.
AWD System:
To my suprise, I hated the car in automatic DCCD mode. I expected the system to be pretty transparent, but I was definately able to feel the power being transferred forward when I was driving the car hard. When I switched the system to manual mode with a strong rearward bias, I loved it... very predictable, none of the throttle-off understeer of the Evo, and I could even get the car to rotate with the throttle if I wanted to. There was even a noticable difference between the bottom setting and the next one up when cornering hard.
Suspension:
Contrary to what I've read, Alex's STI had much more front end grip than my Evo--yes, you heard me, less understeer than the Evo. This may be due to the 1.5 degrees of negative camber he'd dialed in, but the front end was *sharp*.
The overall steering feel of the STI was at least on par with the Evo, possibly better.
The steering bushings felt a bit softer, but I sometimes prefer that on a street car.
On the bad side of the things, the STI's suspension was far too soft. Driving the same roads at basically the same speeds (maybe even a little slower in the STI since I wasn't as comfortable with it), the STI would bottom out on rough sections that the Evo shines on. Additionally, at speed especially the STi's suspension was floaty and much less confidence inspiring than the Evo's. Were I to get an STI, I would have to put in stiffer aftermarket coil-overs and sway bars.
Brakes:
I can't really give a fair comparison here as Alex's car had aftermarket brake lines and pads. Alex's STI's brakes were much more responsive and had better pedal feel. Alex assures me this was the case even before he put in his aftermarket lines/pads.
What I can give a fair comparison of, though, is the ABS system. The Evo's ABS system stepped in far to early, leading me to remove the fuse so I could be comfortable driving the car hard. I had no problems with the ABS on Alex's car.
Chassis:
This is where the Evo really stands out. I felt the Evo's chassis was significantly stiffer than the STI's. The usual things I associate with chassis flex--creaks, rattles, the shuddering you feel when you go over rough pavement and the force travels through the chassis--were much more prominent in the STI, despite the Evo's stiffer suspension. I much prefer the Evo's chassis. If anyone wants a demonstration drop by and I'll can show you.
Livability:
I suppose this shouldn't really be part of what has thus far been a purely performance oriented review, but I'm inclined to put my livability comments here as well. I won't make any comments regarding the aesthetics of the interior/exterior as they're pretty subjective.
The STI's automatic climate control was wonderful coming from the Evo. The Evo's climate controls feel like **** to use, and don't work very well at all. The car gets VERY hot when driven hard even for just a moment, and I'm constantly having to mess with the climate control to stay comfortable. I've never had this problem in the many cars I've driven.
The powerband of the STI makes it much more usable around town. No more super slow acceleration coming off a stop light or stop sign in first gear, waiting for boost to kick in. No more annoying part-throttle surging that's a discomfort for driver and passengers either.
The much stiffer steering bushings in the Evo require you to pay much more attention to the road just to keep the car in a straight line. It seems like a minor thing, but when I'm tired and am coming home late, the steering makes the car feel like it's constantly on edge, and it requires much more energy to drive than the STI.
Suprisingly, I actually felt the ride quality of the Evo was better. Yes, the suspension is stiffer and one would expect it to feel worse, but quite the contrary--the Evo was the more comfortable of the two for me. The quieter Evo interior might have contributed to the increased comfort as well.
----------------
So, my decision? I hate to say it, but after all this I'm going back to the NA RWD cars I feel best suit my driving habits. Neither the STI nor the Evo offer exactly what I'm looking for, though both are great cars in their own regard.
Thanks everyone.
Alex--thanks a lot, I appreciate the drive! Hope you enjoyed taking out the Evo.
Now, my thoughts on the car compared to the Evo...
----------------
Engine:
The STI has far less lag than my Evo, and a much more usable powerband. It also doesn't have the surging problem, and is much more responsive in general. It doesn't have the "rubber-bandy" feeling of the Evo's motor.
AWD System:
To my suprise, I hated the car in automatic DCCD mode. I expected the system to be pretty transparent, but I was definately able to feel the power being transferred forward when I was driving the car hard. When I switched the system to manual mode with a strong rearward bias, I loved it... very predictable, none of the throttle-off understeer of the Evo, and I could even get the car to rotate with the throttle if I wanted to. There was even a noticable difference between the bottom setting and the next one up when cornering hard.
Suspension:
Contrary to what I've read, Alex's STI had much more front end grip than my Evo--yes, you heard me, less understeer than the Evo. This may be due to the 1.5 degrees of negative camber he'd dialed in, but the front end was *sharp*.
The overall steering feel of the STI was at least on par with the Evo, possibly better.
The steering bushings felt a bit softer, but I sometimes prefer that on a street car.
On the bad side of the things, the STI's suspension was far too soft. Driving the same roads at basically the same speeds (maybe even a little slower in the STI since I wasn't as comfortable with it), the STI would bottom out on rough sections that the Evo shines on. Additionally, at speed especially the STi's suspension was floaty and much less confidence inspiring than the Evo's. Were I to get an STI, I would have to put in stiffer aftermarket coil-overs and sway bars.
Brakes:
I can't really give a fair comparison here as Alex's car had aftermarket brake lines and pads. Alex's STI's brakes were much more responsive and had better pedal feel. Alex assures me this was the case even before he put in his aftermarket lines/pads.
What I can give a fair comparison of, though, is the ABS system. The Evo's ABS system stepped in far to early, leading me to remove the fuse so I could be comfortable driving the car hard. I had no problems with the ABS on Alex's car.
Chassis:
This is where the Evo really stands out. I felt the Evo's chassis was significantly stiffer than the STI's. The usual things I associate with chassis flex--creaks, rattles, the shuddering you feel when you go over rough pavement and the force travels through the chassis--were much more prominent in the STI, despite the Evo's stiffer suspension. I much prefer the Evo's chassis. If anyone wants a demonstration drop by and I'll can show you.
Livability:
I suppose this shouldn't really be part of what has thus far been a purely performance oriented review, but I'm inclined to put my livability comments here as well. I won't make any comments regarding the aesthetics of the interior/exterior as they're pretty subjective.
The STI's automatic climate control was wonderful coming from the Evo. The Evo's climate controls feel like **** to use, and don't work very well at all. The car gets VERY hot when driven hard even for just a moment, and I'm constantly having to mess with the climate control to stay comfortable. I've never had this problem in the many cars I've driven.
The powerband of the STI makes it much more usable around town. No more super slow acceleration coming off a stop light or stop sign in first gear, waiting for boost to kick in. No more annoying part-throttle surging that's a discomfort for driver and passengers either.
The much stiffer steering bushings in the Evo require you to pay much more attention to the road just to keep the car in a straight line. It seems like a minor thing, but when I'm tired and am coming home late, the steering makes the car feel like it's constantly on edge, and it requires much more energy to drive than the STI.
Suprisingly, I actually felt the ride quality of the Evo was better. Yes, the suspension is stiffer and one would expect it to feel worse, but quite the contrary--the Evo was the more comfortable of the two for me. The quieter Evo interior might have contributed to the increased comfort as well.
----------------
So, my decision? I hate to say it, but after all this I'm going back to the NA RWD cars I feel best suit my driving habits. Neither the STI nor the Evo offer exactly what I'm looking for, though both are great cars in their own regard.
Thanks everyone.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 39
From: bay area
I enjoyed driving the EVO, it was better than I expected. Here are my impressions:
Engine:
I agree with pretty much with what he said. The STI powerband is more smooth and has a lot more low end. This makes it easier to drive around town and to drive fast. The EVO is more wait then boom. I'd say the kick in the pants is nearly the same but the kick in the STI comes on smoother and lasts longer, in the EVO it just comes in a short burst. Plus I just love that boxer rumble of the STI.
Suspension:
I don't know why he thinks his suspension is stiffer. I have the pink springs and the rates are 257 front and 217 rear, the EVO is 180 front and 225 rear. This is probably why his car had a smoother ride. My car does bottom out a lot easier than his which is confusing and probably why he thought my suspension is softer. Maybe my STI struts are already failing like everyone says they do. Does anyone else with the pink springs have problems with bottoming out? How could the EVO with such softer springs cruise over the same bumpy roads 20mph faster where I was bottoming out?
The EVO definitely transitions quicker, short slaloming on the freeway was much more confident in the EVO, less roll, it feels like a car with bigger sway bars.
The EVO chasis did feel stiffer but it was not as neutral as the STI, it definitely pushes, I couldn't get the back end to come around at all and it would plow when pushed to the limit. The STI feels more comfortable in a turn when lifting off the throttle.
Oh by the way my front camber is only at -.9 not -1.5.
Interior:
This is subjective but I like the interior and ergonomics of the STI better except for the seats. The seats on the EVO were much better, they offered much more support for hard driving but were softer and had more leg support. The STI seat feels like sitting on a barstool.
I think the EVO might handle better on an autocross course or racetrack, it has a quick transitioning nature, but it still plows too much but maybe that could be corrected with some camber and sway bars. It was definitely a fun car to drive. I don't know why but I would feel much more comfortable in the snow or dirt in the STI. I'm glad I got the STI, I like the whole package better.
Engine:
I agree with pretty much with what he said. The STI powerband is more smooth and has a lot more low end. This makes it easier to drive around town and to drive fast. The EVO is more wait then boom. I'd say the kick in the pants is nearly the same but the kick in the STI comes on smoother and lasts longer, in the EVO it just comes in a short burst. Plus I just love that boxer rumble of the STI.
Suspension:
I don't know why he thinks his suspension is stiffer. I have the pink springs and the rates are 257 front and 217 rear, the EVO is 180 front and 225 rear. This is probably why his car had a smoother ride. My car does bottom out a lot easier than his which is confusing and probably why he thought my suspension is softer. Maybe my STI struts are already failing like everyone says they do. Does anyone else with the pink springs have problems with bottoming out? How could the EVO with such softer springs cruise over the same bumpy roads 20mph faster where I was bottoming out?
The EVO definitely transitions quicker, short slaloming on the freeway was much more confident in the EVO, less roll, it feels like a car with bigger sway bars.
The EVO chasis did feel stiffer but it was not as neutral as the STI, it definitely pushes, I couldn't get the back end to come around at all and it would plow when pushed to the limit. The STI feels more comfortable in a turn when lifting off the throttle.
Oh by the way my front camber is only at -.9 not -1.5.
Interior:
This is subjective but I like the interior and ergonomics of the STI better except for the seats. The seats on the EVO were much better, they offered much more support for hard driving but were softer and had more leg support. The STI seat feels like sitting on a barstool.
I think the EVO might handle better on an autocross course or racetrack, it has a quick transitioning nature, but it still plows too much but maybe that could be corrected with some camber and sway bars. It was definitely a fun car to drive. I don't know why but I would feel much more comfortable in the snow or dirt in the STI. I'm glad I got the STI, I like the whole package better.
Last edited by Alex5511; Oct 24, 2004 at 10:27 AM.
hey guys
great reviews! this is the sort of info and unbiased review i have been looking for. i have een teetering back and forth on both of these cars for a while, and i think this has pushed me in the right direction. the sti really sounds like the right car for what i am looking for. hearing the 2 compared by an evo owner real helps. there are so many biased (more so than suby people) eo owners it is hard to wade through the **** talking.
thanks guys for a great reviews.
so who wantsto let me test drive their sti.....
josh
great reviews! this is the sort of info and unbiased review i have been looking for. i have een teetering back and forth on both of these cars for a while, and i think this has pushed me in the right direction. the sti really sounds like the right car for what i am looking for. hearing the 2 compared by an evo owner real helps. there are so many biased (more so than suby people) eo owners it is hard to wade through the **** talking.
thanks guys for a great reviews.
so who wantsto let me test drive their sti.....
josh
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I'm not suprised you are considering the STI. At least people won't mistake your car for a civic anymore =).
kidding!
kidding!
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Alex, a few replies to your comments...
When I said your suspension was softer, I wasn't looking at the numbers; I was just going by the seat of my pants. Your car bottomed out much more easily and had a lot more roll/instability when, for example, I yanked the wheel left/right/left/right on the freeway.
Note also that when comparing spring rates between the Evo and STI, the rear spring rates are not directly comparable as the cars have different suspension layouts (Evo has a multilink setup, STI has MacPherson strut-based setup) with potentially different wheel rates at the same spring rates.
My suspicion is that there are a couple factors at play here:
1. The Evo has significantly more compression damping than the the STI (and probably more rebound damping as well, but I can't say for sure).
2. The Evo has thicker anti-roll bars than the STI.
I agree with Alex for the most part, but would like to note that the Evo does not plow under moderate throttle. This is related to the throttle-off understeer issue I brought up at the beginning of this thread. Steady-state cornering, the Evo will understeer. However, under moderate to heavy throttle, the Evo is pretty neutral.
Sorry, I must have misheard you.
I agree with Alex on all accounts here.
Edit: The Evo has a multilink setup in back, not front.
I don't know why he thinks his suspension is stiffer. I have the pink springs and the rates are 257 front and 217 rear, the EVO is 180 front and 225 rear. This is probably why his car had a smoother ride. My car does bottom out a lot easier than his which is confusing and probably why he thought my suspension is softer. Maybe my STI struts are already failing like everyone says they do. Does anyone else with the pink springs have problems with bottoming out? How could the EVO with such softer springs cruise over the same bumpy roads 20mph faster where I was bottoming out?
Note also that when comparing spring rates between the Evo and STI, the rear spring rates are not directly comparable as the cars have different suspension layouts (Evo has a multilink setup, STI has MacPherson strut-based setup) with potentially different wheel rates at the same spring rates.
My suspicion is that there are a couple factors at play here:
1. The Evo has significantly more compression damping than the the STI (and probably more rebound damping as well, but I can't say for sure).
2. The Evo has thicker anti-roll bars than the STI.
The EVO chasis did feel stiffer but it was not as neutral as the STI, it definitely pushes, I couldn't get the back end to come around at all and it would plow when pushed to the limit. The STI feels more comfortable in a turn when lifting off the throttle.
Oh by the way my front camber is only at -.9 not -1.5.
This is subjective but I like the interior and ergonomics of the STI better except for the seats. The seats on the EVO were much better, they offered much more support for hard driving but were softer and had more leg support. The STI seat feels like sitting on a barstool.
Edit: The Evo has a multilink setup in back, not front.
Last edited by rapture; Oct 25, 2004 at 02:29 PM.
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Originally Posted by rapture
Note also that when comparing spring rates between the Evo and STI, the front spring rates are not directly comparable as the cars have different suspension layouts (Evo has a multilink setup, STI has MacPherson strut-based setup) with potentially different wheel rates at the same spring rates.