Hey guys!

I'm taking up Chinese martial arts next month, more specifically Wing Chun. I found a place in SF that fits my m/w/f/sat schedule, so i'll be giving them a call to set up scheduling and other stuff. It's the one on the very top called "US Wing Chun Kung Fu Academy" on 20th ave in SF.


http://uswingchun.com/index.php?opti...d=20&Itemid=33



Just wondering if any of you guys have any experience with Wing Chun? And especially in that area of SF. Should I be worried about my car while I'm in class? Just wondering because I haven't been to SF, any area in SF, for years, literally.

Thanks!

 

I've trained there before by invitation of a friend who was a member there. It's in a safe neighborhood with lots of restaurants nearby, so no need to worry about your car. If you're looking for a cardio workout, you'll get that there. But if you're looking for fighting ability, you probably won't get that.

Why?
Well, there are a number of reasons.
1.) The training methodology there is listen to Sifu's stories and how he's "going to make you the toughest ****er on the planet," then doing the sets Siu Lim Tao and Chum Kiu over and over again. Then he'll have you chain-punch up and down the studio a few times. After a while, you might get to chi sao ("sticky hands") or hit the wooden dummy a bit.
2.) I hate to say it but the style is fundamentally flawed. It's too niche in that it focuses too much on the trapping range to the detriment of all other fighting ranges.

I won't say I'm a Wing Chun pro, but besides training at US Wing Chun upon invitation by my friend, I've also discussed technique with and also sparred with a number of Wing Chun practitioners before (including practioners from Hong Kong and China, with whom I have no communication gap as I speak Chinese as well ).

From my experiences, I have the opinion that Wing Chun is a fundamentally flawed system. It's designed to be effective in only a very niche range, namely the range between clinching and what most typical striking arts consider a typical striking range. All the fancy blocks and parries in the "sticky hands" range are neutralized by several things: 1.) good, strong straight attacks inside "the pocket" like jabs, crosses, straights, knees, front kicks, Russian hooks, etc., 2.) powerful long range strikes outside of their effective range like roundhouse kicks, long straight kicks, or Thai-style "long knees", 3.) lateral or circular movements that flow into roundhouse kicks or crisp hooks, 4.) a strong clinch game with knee and elbow strikes, 5.) takedowns, either from shooting or clinching. Their over-reliance on perfect parrying and trapping to the detriment of practicing simple and effective blocking is a danger to themselves. This is of course all in addition to a complete lack of ground fighting as well.

Furthermore, Wing Chun professes to develop good internal power, but the insistence of many practitioners to refuse to pivot their bodies into strikes (that is, commit to them) causes a failure to generate enough power to cause knockdown or knockout. Reliance on dan tien alone without proper body mechanics amounts to martial mythology in my opinion, unlike the combination of dan tien use with proper physiological movement as seen in Hung Kuen, full-contact karate, and especially Tai Chi (particularly the fa jing of Chen-style Tai Chi). Their reliance on chain punching is more a nuisance than a threat, and fighters who are trained to receive any sort of hard impact are unlikely to be phased. With both their offense and their defense neutralized, what often happens is that Wing Chun practitioners can be overpowered and overrun by practitioners of full contact styles.

In conclusion, it is my opinion that Wing Chun talks a strong game but is only effective against those with no martial arts experience. I would say that it would not even be effective against a tough barroom brawler a la David "Tank" Abbott. What gives Wing Chun its mystique is its long history and the ability of its long-time practitioners to sell themselves through a combination of tall tales, parlor tricks, and opportunism. The verdict: Wing Chun may give you a split second to run away from a fight, and sometimes that's enough. For anything more, seek another style. The only other benefit I can see in Wing Chun is that it can be used as an effective form of cardiovascular exercise that anyone can do regardless of age or shape.

My 2 cents.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to add this: feel free to try it out for the first time since it's free, then you can probably make a better judgment as to whether the place is right for you.

Also, I might like MMA (in the sense of the sport), but in case you think that I'm one of those types that say it's the only effective method, I can say that I know sport MMA is NOT the end-all, be-all of martial arts, although it's a highly effective training method. However, I feel mixed training is vital. I myself practice 2 traditional styles after all.

 

Still have never seen anything I considered more effective than Krav Maga in the real world

 

Depends on which school the person came out of. Quality control and curriculum regulation (or lack thereof) are notoriously poor in KM despite how uniformly the schools present themselves. Of course, that goes for a lot of other martial arts systems as well (and of course, there are systems that consistently produce a high ratio of effective fighters).

Also, some of the techniques, especially the knife defenses and disarms can build a false sense of security (if the prescribed angle isn't available, the whole technique is more or less lost and the knifeless person is in trouble). On the other hand, lots of "less useful" aspects are removed in exchange for simplicity/efficiency, so time can potentially be more well spent in training.

To the OP, again, as with my last post, I say, "Why not check out the local school?" Whatever suits you is usually the best choice. If you want to learn to be an effective fighter, find a school that has hard (but controlled) sparring -- it's the closest you can get to a real fight without real-fight dangers. I myself train 4-5 days/week, and I spar 4-5 days/week.

 

****ing agreed! Find a good striking style that you are comfortable with, and find a good solid grappling style. Well-rounded always works.

 

Ooooops, sorry Walt, your quote helped me to notice that I missed a "sport" and a "NOT".
What I meant to say was, "MMA is NOT the end-all, be-all of martial arts, but is a highly effective method of training." I still stand by everything else I said, though, and I agree that training to fight in multiple ranges and modes (striking, clinch, grappling, and ground) is the key to effectiveness -- just be careful not to become a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none though.

 

muay thai is king IMO...<----OPINION* =] not fact. just sayin

 

amen

i trained wing chun through high school, but didn't feel it prepared me for any sort of 'live' situation. however, i feel that this is more dependent on how one's sifu chooses to emphasize real-world application of what is taught aka "sparring." i do not regret my time spent studying the art, as i was still able to take something away from it, but i feel my time may have been better spent elsewhere if i wanted to learn how to fight/defend myself.

after a few years off from martial arts, i picked up muay thai and dabbled in boxing, bjj, mma, etc. haven't looked back since.

in conclusion, if you're totally deadset on taking up wing chun for whatever reasons, go for it. otherwise, it would be worth looking elsewhere.

 

I used to think the same when I was still practicing Muay Thai, then a BJJ player choked the living the daylights out of me. But for striking, it's definitely one of the best styles and it'll always be my standing base, even though I'm a karate player now.

I do find it ironic that all these people did karate before then went to Muay Thai as it's the current flavor of the month, while I did Muay Thai before it got popular and then went to karate... then again, completely different types of karate we're talking about here (and I'm not a ****ing hipster, so don't even say it haha!).

 

choku dori: you studying kyokushin karate now or a different 'style' of karate?

 

An offshoot of Kyokushin called Enshin. Enshin adds clinching and more circular movement to blindside opponents, but we still plow each other like in Kyokushin haha. We have one Kyokushin player here in BAIC -- Kyokushin WRX is his screen name.
Honestly, I've found Enshin's concentration on technical skill to be very good for me -- it's taken everything that I learned in Muay Thai and fine-tuned it (resulting in harder, faster kicks especially), and also added some things that are effective but aren't widely used in Muay Thai. I like it!
And just for the record, I also do judo.

 

There's a crapload of Kyokushin offshoots. Never really been sure why, as many of them already existed before Oyama's death. Compare that to Kodokan Judo, which has remained fairly monolithic throughout its entire history.

 

I'd venture to say that it's because karate started with one style (Okinawa Ti) and branched into many, while judo started with many styles (all those obsolete Japanese jujutsu ryuha) and distilled into one. It's just history repeating itself over and over again. Then again, Gracie Jiujitsu should technically have been called Gracie Judo, but that's another topic for another discussion.

 

So DarkJuic3b0x, any news? Did you go? Did you like it?