AccessTUNER Race Ideas and Feedback!

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Old Sep 2, 2008 | 10:06 AM
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AccessTUNER Race Ideas and Feedback!

I know my position on this topic has caught some of you by surprise. I have always been a proponent of individuals learning about the ECU and getting a better understanding how tuning works in general. ATR is a great chance for this type learning, so I do feel bad for completely discounting it right off the bat. Honestly I have no problems with some people having their tuned map as I trust that they would not share it and would only use it for their own car and their own educational purposes. The problem, however, is that this is not necessarily the case with most of the customers out there. I do agree that this sort of overall blanket denial approach is not the right way to go about it as it excludes honest users who would stand to benefit from ATR. So I spent much of this weekend thinking of a few ways to make this more fair to such user as well as provide me some peace of mind about how things will be used. Here is what I've come up with so far.

I'd like to start offering some basic to moderate instruction/training sessions with ATR and my maps for customers who want to learn more about the ECU and tweak things on their own. I envision this as a 2-3 hour one on one training session including a detailed overview of the functionality of ATR, the logic and functionality of the Subaru ECU, the logic and functionality behind my custom map specifically, some general tuning work flow procedures, as well as some guided tuning in your own car. All of this will be designed to make sure the user is well prepared, educated, and comfortable making safe modifications to my custom tuned maps. Upon completion of the training session, the customer would receive their custom tune in ATR format as well as a certificate which will also serve as an agreement waiving my liability and defining some basic use terms.

This would make me much more comfortable that the customer has a good understanding of the ECU and can responsibly and safely make tweaks and modify one of my maps. This would be a good educational experience and ultimately will give you a great base to work from for any further modification and tweaking of your own ECU. For further support, I may also consider offering some optional long term support program where I will review any maps and logs the customer has created, offering any advice, tweaks, or just a stamp of approval. This could be done on a case by case basis or as a longer term program.

Please remember this is aimed at the people who truly want to learn their ECU as well as my particular tuning approach and then use the knowledge to tweak their own ECU. This is certainly not for everyone. I know there are also many people who would like to just be able to log their ECU and I'm working on a separate easy solution for that crowd.

As you can tell this is all mostly in the planning stage, so I'd greatly appreciate all your input.

Would you like a training service like this and would it be beneficial to you? Do you believe it would ultimately help you tune your car yourself as apposed to working from scratch and figuring everything out on your own? If so, what do you think this would be worth to you?

Than you for the feedback!
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 10:13 AM
  #2  
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Sounds like a great starting off point Ed! I think it's also great to offer some hands on education on the subject rather than just having to learn from reading.

Can you let me know when you've come up with a plan for data logging? I really want to get that 100 octane map logged before the end of November (track day) but enginuity just wouldn't do it, it kept freezing.
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by VRT MBasile
Sounds like a great starting off point Ed! I think it's also great to offer some hands on education on the subject rather than just having to learn from reading.

Can you let me know when you've come up with a plan for data logging? I really want to get that 100 octane map logged before the end of November (track day) but enginuity just wouldn't do it, it kept freezing.
Thanks Matt. I think this seems like a natural progression to allow users to safely work with their own ECUs. I do hope for some more feedback as I'd like to structure this service specifically for those who would use it.

I'm working on the data logging. Have you tried using EcuExplorer?

Thanks
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 12:10 PM
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sounds like a great idea.

As for logging, EVO Scan is ported to the Suby now, but it is a little in depth for basic logging.
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 01:36 PM
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when i get my car tuned, i thought i would just annoy the guy tuning it by asking him thousands of questions, but it looks like you are willing to actually teach whats going on....great idea.

id be down for this
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by slugrx
when i get my car tuned, i thought i would just annoy the guy tuning it by asking him thousands of questions, but it looks like you are willing to actually teach whats going on....great idea.

id be down for this
I've always been happy to answer any questions during the tune... it tells me the customer wants to understand how everything works and a well informed customer is always a good thing. This service would just take this further and hopefully help those individuals who really want to understand the ECU and general tuning procedures and ultimately make minor tweaks to their own custom tune.

Thanks

Last edited by EQ Tuning; Sep 2, 2008 at 02:01 PM.
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 01:46 PM
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That's definitely a good idea, I think it serves as a good compromise between retaining the standards of the professional relationship between customer and tuner, and the enhanced customer solutions offered by this product.
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 01:47 PM
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When I had Ed tune my Suby, he answered questions like a champ, even without this service, which I applaud him for offering.
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by slugrx
when i get my car tuned, i thought i would just annoy the guy tuning it by asking him thousands of questions, but it looks like you are willing to actually teach whats going on....great idea.

id be down for this
It depends on the question(s) being asked; I don't have time to answer every little question on how an internal combustion engine works, but any tuner worth their salt should readily answer questions asked by the customer that pertain to what's going on during the tuning process.
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by EQ Tuning
Thanks Matt. I think this seems like a natural progression to allow users to safely work with their own ECUs. I do hope for some more feedback as I'd like to structure this service specifically for those who would use it.

I'm working on the data logging. Have you tried using EcuExplorer?

Thanks
ECUExplorer didn't have one of the parameters you had needed, but did work more reliably than Enginuity, but Enginuity had all the parameters
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 02:26 PM
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I'd totally be up for taking a class like this so definitely a +1 from here
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 02:47 PM
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kudos to Ed for embracing the inevitable. I'd be down for a bit of teaching from an amicable tuner.
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by VRT MBasile
ECUExplorer didn't have one of the parameters you had needed, but did work more reliably than Enginuity, but Enginuity had all the parameters
You should be able to get to most everything needed with EcuExplorer. PM me with the missing parameter and I can help you find it.

Thanks
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by EQ Tuning
I know my position on this topic has caught some of you by surprise. I have always been a proponent of individuals learning about the ECU and getting a better understanding how tuning works in general. ATR is a great chance for this type learning, so I do feel bad for completely discounting it right off the bat. Honestly I have no problems with some people having their tuned map as I trust that they would not share it and would only use it for their own car and their own educational purposes. The problem, however, is that this is not necessarily the case with most of the customers out there. I do agree that this sort of overall blanket denial approach is not the right way to go about it as it excludes honest users who would stand to benefit from ATR. So I spent much of this weekend thinking of a few ways to make this more fair to such user as well as provide me some peace of mind about how things will be used. Here is what I've come up with so far.

I'd like to start offering some basic to moderate instruction/training sessions with ATR and my maps for customers who want to learn more about the ECU and tweak things on their own. I envision this as a 2-3 hour one on one training session including a detailed overview of the functionality of ATR, the logic and functionality of the Subaru ECU, the logic and functionality behind my custom map specifically, some general tuning work flow procedures, as well as some guided tuning in your own car. All of this will be designed to make sure the user is well prepared, educated, and comfortable making safe modifications to my custom tuned maps. Upon completion of the training session, the customer would receive their custom tune in ATR format as well as a certificate which will also serve as an agreement waiving my liability and defining some basic use terms.

This would make me much more comfortable that the customer has a good understanding of the ECU and can responsibly and safely make tweaks and modify one of my maps. This would be a good educational experience and ultimately will give you a great base to work from for any further modification and tweaking of your own ECU. For further support, I may also consider offering some optional long term support program where I will review any maps and logs the customer has created, offering any advice, tweaks, or just a stamp of approval. This could be done on a case by case basis or as a longer term program.

Please remember this is aimed at the people who truly want to learn their ECU as well as my particular tuning approach and then use the knowledge to tweak their own ECU. This is certainly not for everyone. I know there are also many people who would like to just be able to log their ECU and I'm working on a separate easy solution for that crowd.

As you can tell this is all mostly in the planning stage, so I'd greatly appreciate all your input.

Would you like a training service like this and would it be beneficial to you? Do you believe it would ultimately help you tune your car yourself as apposed to working from scratch and figuring everything out on your own? If so, what do you think this would be worth to you?

Than you for the feedback!
Very postive step.. Great job for stepping up.

I used to do the same on called Tech nights.. It worked out great. I shut the dealer down at closing then opened back up at 7pm and invited all the locals to come in.
People walked away with greater understanding. Then most will simply pay you for tuning as they see the crazy matrix of numbers before them
Old Sep 2, 2008 | 03:46 PM
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+1 here. Tuning an entire setup is a bit daunting for me, but it would be cool to be able to make minor adjustments for one or two new parts that require a tune.



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