This is an article from Dennis Prager. IMO it hits the nail on the head.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/printdp20050201.shtml

February 1, 2005


"Someone who does not know the difference between good and evil is worth nothing." -- Miecyslaw Kasprzyk, Polish rescuer of Jews during the Holocaust, New York Times, Jan. 30, 2005

It took a Polish rescuer of Jews in the Holocaust, cited this week 60 years after the liberation of the Auschwitz concentration and death camp, to best describe those people who cannot or refuse to know the difference between good and evil. They are "worth nothing."

Since I was an adolescent, I have been preoccupied with evil: specifically, why people engage in it and why other people refuse to acknowledge its existence. As I have gotten older, I often find the latter group more infuriating. Somehow, as much as I don't want to, I can understand why a Muslim raised in a world permeated with hate-filled lies about America and Israel, and taught from childhood that God loves death, will blow himself up and joyfully maim and murder children. As evil as the Muslim terrorist is, given the Islamic world in which he was raised, he has some excuse.

But the non-Muslims who fail to acknowledge and confront the evil of Muslim terror and the evil of those monsters who cut innocent people's throats and murder those trying to make a democracy -- these people are truly worth nothing. Unlike the Muslims raised in a religious totalitarian society, they have no excuse. And in my lifetime, these people have overwhelmingly congregated on the political Left.

Since the 1960s, with few exceptions, on the greatest questions of good and evil, the Left has either been neutral toward or actively supported evil. The Left could not identify communism as evil; has been neutral toward or actually supported the anti-democratic pro-terrorist Palestinians against the liberal democracy called Israel; and has found it impossible to support the war for democracy and against an Arab/Muslim enemy in Iraq as evil as any fascist the Left ever claimed to hate.

There were intellectually and morally honest arguments against going to war in Iraq. But once the war began, a moral person could not oppose it. No moral person could hope for, let alone act on behalf of, a victory for the Arab/Islamic fascists. Just ask yourself but two questions: If America wins, will there be an increase or decrease in goodness in Iraq and in the world? And then ask what would happen if the Al Qaeda/Zarqawi/Baathists win.

It brings me no pleasure to describe opponents of the Iraqi war as "worth nothing." I know otherwise fine, decent people who oppose the war. So I sincerely apologize for the insult.

But to the Left in general, as opposed to individually good people who side with the Left, I have no apologies. It is the Left -- in America, in Europe and around the world -- that should do all the apologizing: to the men, women and children of Iraq and elsewhere for not coming to their support against those who would crush them.

That most Democratic Party leaders, union leaders, gay leaders, feminists, professors, editorial writers and news reporters have called for an American withdrawal and labeled this most moral of wars "immoral" is a permanent stain on their reputations.

About 60 percent of the Iraqi people went to vote despite the fact that every Iraqi voter risked his or her life and the lives of their children, whose throats the Islamic fascists threatened to slit. Yet, the Left continues to label the war for Iraqi democracy "immoral" while praising the tyrant of Cuba.

Leftists do so for the same reason they admired Ho Chi Minh and Mao Tse-tung and condemned American arms as the greatest threat to world peace during and after the Cold War. The Left "does not know the difference between good and evil." And that is why it is worth nothing.

Shut up man. That is the biggest load of propaganda I've ever read. When I read that, I saw: "Don't be compasionate, and keep a close mind when it comes to international relations." And that is exactly why the Right is labeled as insensitive and blinded by their own agenda. The left has never actively supported evil. Just look at how rediculous that looks in type. Pure BS. Communism is not neccesarily evil, you close minded douche. Noone on the left likes Fidel Castro...that's f***ing rediculous. But if Fidel was gone, and a true communist government took over that treated the people of Cuba well and was non-violent, what the f*** would be wrong with that. You close minded tube-snake lover.
And the left is usually the first ones to point out evil doings around the world, while the right tries to cover the fact that they're involved in said evils. Find somewhere else to put up your nonsense propaganda.

That's the best you have...weak sauce!!!
Look at things lefties like George Soros says at Lebanon’s Daily Star, in an op-ed that says there’s no right and no wrong, no truth and no falsehood, no freedom and no tyranny, only the guiding light of international law in the brave new world of “open societies”—and America is breaking that law:

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=5&article_id=12267

He spent 26 million to put a lilberal in office, tell me again how the left is not unable to see evil. So suck on that candy ass.

http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/common/wallpapers/dawnbraindead_800.jpg

It's not that the left doesn't see a right and a wrong. It's that the right is unwilling to change their deffinitions of right and wrong to fit in with the real world which evolves. What was 'wrong' in the year 1000 can be 'right' now and vice-versa. For example: drugs have been used thoughout human history. But only relatively recently have then been scene as 'evil.' Hell, they used to be the reason for week-long festivals and celebrations.
Another example: It used to be 'evil' to swear at someone in public. Now swearing is so ingrained in the common venacular that it is almost strange to hear someone speak without some form of a swear.

You're viewpoint is a very close minded one. There is no root definition of evil or good, except in your own heart. If you believe that the left, as a whole, does not 'know' the difference between good and evil, then you are the evil one. Exclusion, catagorizing, and prejudice (all of which you have displayed) are evil. Now run along and make your little blacklist of communists living in the US...because what you're suggesting wreaks of 'red scare' type tactics. Which, as we all know, caused more evil than good.

You want to talk of Red Scare tactics?? Did you ever even witness communism, I was in East Berlin before the Soviet Union fell, having to wear dress uniforms everywhere we went or be arrested for espionage, escorted by a STASI member all the time. People were F'N shot for trying to leave, yet you tell me I know nothing of good and evil except whjat lies in my heart!!? I feel sorry for you that you have no inate sense of right or wrong and that you world is only filled with greys. What prejudice have I displayed? What exclusions have I shown? Please list the specifics. The Right was correct about the cold war, and they are right about the war in which we fight now. Your failure to see that is an obvios character flaw in you as well as though like you. Our only hope is that your ideology does not become that of the majority.

"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."

Albert Einstein

You're blinded, unfortunatly, by the evils that have been done to you and your family. I'm sorry you had to go through that. But it has so far tainted your thought process that intelligible banter about politics is imposible. So you say everything IS black and white and greys don't exist. Wow. That's all I have to say. Wow. You might want to check in with the real world every now and again...things look grey everywhere I look.


Einstein is my idol, don't f***ing twist his words like that. He was, and would be today, a democrat and a 'left winger'.


You want specifics? You say that the left is worthless. That is a gross generalization, and certainly worthy of the term prejudice.

Shut up man. That is the biggest load of propaganda I've ever read. When I read that, I saw: "Don't be compasionate, and keep a close mind when it comes to international relations." And that is exactly why the Right is labeled as insensitive and blinded by their own agenda. The left has never actively supported evil. Just look at how rediculous that looks in type. Pure BS. Communism is not neccesarily evil, you close minded douche. Noone on the left likes Fidel Castro...that's f***ing rediculous. But if Fidel was gone, and a true communist government took over that treated the people of Cuba well and was non-violent, what the f*** would be wrong with that. You close minded tube-snake lover.
And the left is usually the first ones to point out evil doings around the world, while the right tries to cover the fact that they're involved in said evils. Find somewhere else to put up your nonsense propaganda.

You sound pretty angry (hmmm...evil perhaps?). You'd think he just ran over you dog or something!

I'd love to get in on fun against Socialists, but I'm suffering the aftermath of bad Chinese food.

Maybe later.

You're blinded, unfortunatly, by the evils that have been done to you and your family. I'm sorry you had to go through that. But it has so far tainted your thought process that intelligible banter about politics is imposible. So you say everything IS black and white and greys don't exist. Wow. That's all I have to say. Wow. You might want to check in with the real world every now and again...things look grey everywhere I look.


Einstein is my idol, don't f***ing twist his words like that. He was, and would be today, a democrat and a 'left winger'.

Please show me where I stated greys don't exist. Why can't you stay on task? You must be a very angry child, maybe you need a little alone time. As for Einstein that is a direct quote. I can use it in any form I like, how could you possibly ever stop me?!!?!? HAHAHAHA

I'd love to get in on fun against Socialists, but I'm suffering the aftermath of bad Chinese food.

Maybe later.

Come on Socialism rules, it's not like the force people to become whores or lose their state benefits...oh wait strike that last comment

Better Einstein quote in respects to this war:
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."

Quote from you:
"I feel sorry for you that you have no inate sense of right or wrong and that you world is only filled with greys."

The world is ALL greys...name ONE thing that's pure evil. Killing? That's pretty evil...oh wait, not if you kill a bad guy...

By the way, lumping the ideals of socialism and communism in with what has happened in countries where a dictator pretended they were practicing socialism is unintelligent.

Better Einstein quote in respects to this war:
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."

Quote from you:
"I feel sorry for you that you have no inate sense of right or wrong and that you world is only filled with greys."

The world is ALL greys...name ONE thing that's pure evil. Killing? That's pretty evil...oh wait, not if you kill a bad guy...


Is genocide evil, is using chemical weapons on people evil? Is cutting the heads off of Nepalese Buddahists evil, Using a child suffering from Down Syndrome to carry out a suicide attack evil? Murdering people for voting evil? what about paying families of suicide bombers? I guess in your world it's just grey.

All of those things are evil to somebody and justifiable to someone else. I agree with you that they are all evil things. (I never said that nothing is evil...) But to somebody, you spending money on a car is evil. You have to recognize that your opinion is objective and not ultimately right or wrong. Your extreamist viewpoint will appear uneducated and selfish when you suddenly realize, someday, that the center of the universe is very very far away from where you live.

Is genocide evil, is using chemical weapons on people evil? Is cutting the heads off of Nepalese Buddahists evil, Using a child suffering from Down Syndrome to carry out a suicide attack evil? Murdering people for voting evil? what about paying families of suicide bombers? I guess in your world it's just grey.


So where do you go next on your crusade svxr8dr? There are so many other countries that have these problems or much worse problems. Or do you only go there when they have oil for the taking? I mean since we are now in the habit of invading sovereign nations we should head on over to Sudan since there has been Genocide going on over there for years. After Sudan we should go to Iran because those people have been oppressed for years, the list goes on and on and on. So why Iraq. Well thats simple. They have oil and Jr doesn't like saddam because he tried to assasinate papa.

Don't get me wrong, if it works over there and Iraq can be a true democratic nation than that will be a huge step for free nations everywhere. But where do you stop? Bush wants to "spread democracy" throughout the world so I suspect we will be taking on the likes of the North Koreas, Irans and Chinas of the world in some way or another sooner rather than later. Remeber we are not going to be the #1 world superpower for that much longer. China is quickly taking that title from us and they will be doing it with *gasp* communism *gasp*

A better question would be where do you start? Iraq is a campaign in the war on terror as a whole, placing democracies (though admittedly in their infancies) on the East and West of Iran is a good thing. Creating regional stabilty is a greater thing. Thus in the long run their very creation will help it so these "crusades" as you put it will not have to happen. IMO though a reformation will have to take place within Islam. As for China being number one...thatmay happen, only time will tell, but since the return of H.K., I wouldn't say that it is being accomplished through communism.

All of those things are evil to somebody and justifiable to someone else. I agree with you that they are all evil things. (I never said that nothing is evil...) But to somebody, you spending money on a car is evil. You have to recognize that your opinion is objective and not ultimately right or wrong. Your extreamist viewpoint will appear uneducated and selfish when you suddenly realize, someday, that the center of the universe is very very far away from where you live.

They only justifiable to the ones that commit the act....Are they justifibale to the majority of Iraqi's? How about the majority of Al Jazeera viewers? There is a difference between killing ones enemy in combat and sawing off the head of a civilian contractor. Your inablity to see that equates to only those who have commited the acts, that is your folly. Maybe someday you will understand that, but I doubt it.

Warning Warning we have a new jackass in the building... Please ignore his silly statements and move along.

They only justifiable to the ones that commit the act.


Hahahaha. Exactly. That's whay I'm saying. In your value system, you have certain things that are evil, bottom line. But other people have different systems that have different evils. You harping over and over that certain things are inherently evil only makes you look more and more narrow minded. People who do the things you think are evil are not setting out to be evil...they are doing what they think is right. Who are you to say they're wrong and you're right? Maybe when you die you'll find out that you are a saint and will be fovever remembered as being great. Or maybe you'll find out that your entire belief system is wrong and that the things you thought were evil actually were good. Or maybe you'll just cease to exist and it will show that good and evil are a human construction...meaning that they are subject to the opinions and feelings of all humans, and that there is no such thing as an ultimate evil or good...it all depends, and yes it is all in the gray area.

Warning Warning we have a new jackass in the building... Please ignore his silly statements and move along.


I probably have been here longer than you, only not posting and just watching all the giberish and utter crap you post in order for me to get a laugh, only after a while did I realize you were serious about your opinions is when it no longer became amusing....but frightening.

Hahahaha. Exactly. That's whay I'm saying. In your value system, you have certain things that are evil, bottom line. But other people have different systems that have different evils. You harping over and over that certain things are inherently evil only makes you look more and more narrow minded. People who do the things you think are evil are not setting out to be evil...they are doing what they think is right. Who are you to say they're wrong and you're right? Maybe when you die you'll find out that you are a saint and will be fovever remembered as being great. Or maybe you'll find out that your entire belief system is wrong and that the things you thought were evil actually were good. Or maybe you'll just cease to exist and it will show that good and evil are a human construction...meaning that they are subject to the opinions and feelings of all humans, and that there is no such thing as an ultimate evil or good...it all depends, and yes it is all in the gray area.

Please read the small print. There is a difference between killing as combatants and combatants purposely killing non combatants. That is not a shade of grey. You have completely proved the point of Mr. Pragers article. Your failure to even recognize evil makes you worth nothing.

What I'm saying is that no matter what, the definition of good and evil is OBJECTIVE. Unless you believe in a higher power. But if you do, then a military itself is evil (Though shalt not kill. Plain and simple).

Don't take that article as truth. If you do, you're selling yourself short. Evil has no definition, no particulars, because any act can be seen as good or evil by different people. And if you think someone is evil, then they probably think you're evil and like I said before, why do you think you're opinion is worth more than theirs.


You're right, I am worth nothing....I'm priceless.

Judiaism nor Christianity consider soldiers evil, though I'm not a Christian you may want to consider the story in Luke about Jesus and the Centurion. Nor was Jesus a Pacifist: NAB LUK 22:35 Jesus speaking "...And the man without a sword must sell his coat and buy one."
John 15:13 Jesus speaking "There is no greater love than this: to lay down ones life for one's friends."
Also King David was also a general which leads me to your Commandment quote “Thou Shalt Not Kill”.
Moses walked down Mt. Sinai with the Ten Commandments which include all these concepts on love. When Moses got to the bottom of the mountain, he found the Israelites having orgies and worshiping a golden calf. Moses could not get control of the situation. So Moses went to the Levites and gave the order to put on their battle armor. That day, the same day Moses brought down God’s commandment, ‘Thou Shalt Not Kill’, Moses lead Levite troops into battle and killed three thousand of his defiant countrymen. Like King David, God was with him in battle.

After the battle, Moses walked back up Mt. Sinai and intervenes between God and those Israelites who hate him. Moses says to God, "If you would only forgive their sin! If you will not, then strike me out of the book that you have written.”. "The book" meaning the book of those who inherit eternal life. Moses puts his eternal soul on the line in order to persuade God to forgive his enemies sins. Moses is second only to Jesus when it comes to turning the other cheek and loving those who have hated him. Though Moses kills three thousand of his countrymen he bears no hatred or vengeance for them. It is Moses who gives God's command to take no revenge.

Most people do not realize it was Moses, not Jesus, who first gave us the command to love our neighbor as oursleves and take no revenge.

Ok, that's cool...mythology. But you're proving my point even more. Even something as plainly evil as homocide can be seen in many different lights. Murder for your lord is good. Murder for Allah is bad...according to you. But just like you can quote all that scripture as reason for your definitions of good and evil, someone else can quote from another book of mythology for their definitions of good and evil. It's OBJECTIVE. That's my point...you're definitions of good and evil, no matter how popular, are still objective and therefore cannot be right or wrong. It really IS in the grey area, even though you'll never admit it.

And speaking of ultimate rights and wrongs, wouldn't you consider murdering someone for a tank of gas evil? How about a few thousand citizens and even more of your own soldiers for some barrels of crude?...that's evil to me, how about you?

Ok, that's cool...mythology. But you're proving my point even more. Even something as plainly evil as homocide can be seen in many different lights. Murder for your lord is good. Murder for Allah is bad...according to you. But just like you can quote all that scripture as reason for your definitions of good and evil, someone else can quote from another book of mythology for their definitions of good and evil. It's OBJECTIVE. That's my point...you're definitions of good and evil, no matter how popular, are still objective and therefore cannot be right or wrong. It really IS in the grey area, even though you'll never admit it.

nice job of moving the goal posts.

And speaking of ultimate rights and wrongs, wouldn't you consider murdering someone for a tank of gas evil? How about a few thousand citizens and even more of your own soldiers for some barrels of crude?...that's evil to me, how about you?

Please show me where the free gas is that we are getting due to our huge oil reserves in Iraq now and I will consider your argument. It would have been cheaper to fully develop ANWAR than invade Iraq for oil. Again weak sauce!

hahahaha, you're the one who brought up the religious babble.

Please show me where the free gas is that we are getting due to our huge oil reserves in Iraq now and I will consider your argument. It would have been cheaper to fully develop ANWAR than invade Iraq for oil. Again weak sauce!


I'm sorry...welcome to the TRUTH. We did invade Iraq for oil. Even the resident conservatives here have admitted that oil is the biggest reason we're there.

Oh this guy is classic he has moved past Hella in the way out there section. Brings a tear to my eye.

I probably have been here longer than you, only not posting and just watching all the giberish and utter crap you post in order for me to get a laugh, only after a while did I realize you were serious about your opinions is when it no longer became amusing....but frightening.

ROFLOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Are you serious? I was proably one of the first registered users when I-club split up so I seriously doubt that. Second you are cracking me up because you have been proven time and time again that you are wrong. The only one thats frightening is you. :) You actually believe things that even the person I thought was most extreem on here doesn't thats a bit scary to me.

ROFLOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Are you serious? I was proably one of the first registered users when I-club split up so I seriously doubt that. Second you are cracking me up because you have been proven time and time again that you are wrong. The only one thats frightening is you. :) You actually believe things that even the person I thought was most extreem on here doesn't thats a bit scary to me.

Actually, he's got you beat by about 450 members.

And as far as war for oil goes, why are fuel prices still relatively high?
For the time being, oil is vital to the world's economy, meaning that it's reserves need protecting.

I wish the feds would dump half as much $$ into funding alternative energy than they have in this war.
Just think, more alternative energy = less demand on imported oil = militant Muslims starving to death as the price per barrel plummets.

Ultimately, you must keep in mind what is best for each country. Obviously Germany has thrived since the fall of the Berlin wall. However, since the fall of the Soviet Union, many Russians struggle to provide for their families, whereas during Communism the common person had a higher standard of living. In fact, most Russians I haven encountered in small cities preferred the previous socialist system to the current one. Have you ever read the Communist Manifesto svxr8dr? If so, you would conclude that communism is not inherently evil. It is as mvwrx said about leaders/dictators such as Stalin, Bush, etc. that are responsible for manipulating such doctrines.
Likewise, I believe it is hard for the Western civilization to fully understand the Muslim culture and trying to force our way of life on them may be wrong. Good for you svxr8dr if you are naive enough to believe the War on Iraq is noble and for just reasons - I hope you have convinced yourself so you can sleep well tonight.

Actually, he's got you beat by about 450 members.

I doubt that because I was also registered when I-club hadn't split up. ;)

Ultimately, you must keep in mind what is best for each country. Obviously Germany has thrived since the fall of the Berlin wall. However, since the fall of the Soviet Union, many Russians struggle to provide for their families, whereas during Communism the common person had a higher standard of living. In fact, most Russians I haven encountered in small cities preferred the previous socialist system to the current one. Have you ever read the Communist Manifesto svxr8dr? If so, you would conclude that communism is not inherently evil. It is as mvwrx said about leaders/dictators such as Stalin, Bush, etc. that are responsible for manipulating such doctrines.
Likewise, I believe it is hard for the Western civilization to fully understand the Muslim culture and trying to force our way of life on them may be wrong. Good for you svxr8dr if you are naive enough to believe the War on Iraq is noble and for just reasons - I hope you have convinced yourself so you can sleep well tonight.

I have read the Communist Manifesto, and I consider it more of a book about economics than political philosophy and some what niave to boot.
Any culture can see that any religion that is controlled by militant extremists is in dire need of a reformation, just as the Vatican was during the time of the crusades and Spanish Inquisition.

I doubt that because I was also registered when I-club hadn't split up. ;)


Just an FYI Prior to the split I was member 1700 something with a join date of 06-19-2000

Damn I got beat. You win I don't remember my old Iclub number so...

Has I-club really been around THAT long???

I wish the feds would dump half as much $$ into funding alternative energy than they have in this war.
Just think, more alternative energy = less demand on imported oil = militant Muslims starving to death as the price per barrel plummets.

Brilliant!

I hope they do it so I don't cry everytime I drive down and see the smog-filled valley from El Dorado Hills.

Has I-club really been around THAT long???


Yes. :) I found it because my friend bought a old legacy and we trashed the hell out of it. I mean horribly killed it. The poor thing was dead. But it still ran. I have never seen a car take so much abuse. The greatest part of all was that he sold it for 300 bucks with the car in almost pieces but still running. :D And thats why I thought **** this is a car I want. :)

Warning Warning we have a new jackass in the building... Please ignore his silly statements and move along.

I'm wayyyy ahead of ya. If he wants to take the statement of one person and assume the entire party feels exactly the same way, then go ahead and let him. There is no use arguing with or even responding to someone who isn't looking to have a constructive conversation. He is obviously just trying to rile up people on the left or start some kind of 'sh*t-on-liberals' parade with who he thinks are people that agree with him.

Are any of you self-proclaimed conservatives going to set this fool straight? I know some of you are smarter than this guy.

OOOh I'm a fool cause scoobsport998 said so!!!

OOOh I'm a fool cause scoobsport998 said so!!!

You forgot to say "Weak Sauce" for the 800th time.

You forgot to say "Weak Sauce" for the 800th time.


May you could become a big bad scary E-thug and threaten me to?!

May you could become a big bad scary E-thug and threaten me to?!

yeah, I'm real scary.

E-thug I love that term.

Maybe you could have your Mommy and Daddy give you another wittle B-day gift by asking me to say it?

Maybe you could have your Mommy and Daddy give you another wittle B-day gift by asking me to say it?

Are you really like this or is it an act?

Are you really like this or is it an act?


I only respond like this to posts that deserve it.

I only respond like this to posts that deserve it.

Just checking.

I only respond like this to posts that deserve it.


well, this doesn't

shut the hell up.

OOOh I'm a fool cause scoobsport998 said so!!!

Yeah, I was going for intimidation there. If I were to start calling names, fool wouldn't be one of them.

You can do better.

too bad you can't.

please be more specific, you're beginning to drift off into a world where only you understand what the f*ck you're talking about.

calm down peeps. on a lighter note, speaking of thugaboos' this crap is pretty funny, kinda a mix of a hair salon, the springer show and highschool.
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26

You can do better.

TOO BAD YOU CAN"T!!

Make better sense for you now?


What's up with some of you uppity wagon owners?

TOO BAD YOU CAN"T!!

Make better sense for you now?


What's up with some of you uppity wagon owners?


Oh thanks, I see now that you put it in uppercase. :rolleyes:

What I was getting at.... What are you referring to? If you were implying that I can't make more sense than you, well, not one of my posts in this forum is as immature and futile as your lastest attempts at communication.

You first post today says nothing but "shut the hell up" so I dumbed down to match your childish name calling so you would be more comfortable in this enviroment. Maybe you can consider this the afternoon session of your daycare.

May you could become a big bad scary E-thug and threaten me to?!

Who else has 'threatened' you? Is sounds to me like the E-streets run in your blood, and you have had experience in bangin' wit plenty of so-called 'e-thugs.'

So far, your out-thuggin' everybody here- I gotta give it to ya.

http://www.perpetualcow.com/gfx/crying-.gif

"Democracy and violence can ill go together. Evolution of democracy is not possible if we are not prepared to hear the other side."-Ghandi

You first post today says nothing but "shut the hell up" so I dumbed down to match your childish name calling so you would be more comfortable in this enviroment. Maybe you can consider this the afternoon session of your daycare.


"Dumbed down?' from what? This childish bullsh*t?

May you could become a big bad scary E-thug and threaten me to?!


Maybe you could have your Mommy and Daddy give you another wittle B-day gift by asking me to say it?

I feel my response was called for, and not in any way 'childish' as you say. Your two quotes, however, reek of immaturity and a smug, defiant attitude. This isn't the place to vent that crap- this forum was ORIGINALLY meant to be a place to have intelligent discussions, at least I think it was.

As far as I can tell, you are a narrow-minded idiot just looking for attention. This isn't name calling, it's just the impression you've given me. You haven't posted much in this forum, so this ins't the best way to start, that is, unless you WANT people to think this way of you. And remember, I'm not calling names, this is just a mere observation.

On another note, threads with titles as blatantly ignorant as this should be deleted- if not to discourage weak arguments, to save the original poster from losing their credibility in this forum.

Its a shame.... he was so young....

http://www.perpetualcow.com/gfx/crying-.gif

:rolleyes:

Sorry you don't like the thread title. It's the title of the article as well. I didn't create though I think it reigns true. The name calling was never started by me in this thread and if you re-read the entire thing, I beleive you will find it was your political allies than began the childish behavior. I posted a published article, If you don't like it don't read it. If you want to discuss finer points of the article without attacking the person posting it than great. If not grow up and go elsewhere.

You're affiliation with the Republican party, and in turn your failure to fix the gaps in your teeth, buy new blue jeans, and stop wearing plad, makes you worth nothing. :)

Understand now? Okay, I totally agree with this statement: people who can't recognize right from wrong are worth nothing. But I don't think the entire democratic party belong in this category. The problem in your argument is that you fail to explain how the ENTIRE democratic party can't 'recognize evil.' You've got to admit, this is quite a stretch.

Maybe it's a symptom of 'liberalitis' ... complete and utter evil-blindness.
What's the cure? Quick, gimme that Toby Keith album! :D

Oh, by the way, thanks for getting half-way back on track.

Can secularism by it's defintion find anything evil? I would say it cannot.

Can secularism by it's defintion find anything evil? I would say it cannot.
Ah, there's your problem.

So, let me get this straight. Secularism is a principle that says the government should not sponsor any one religion or hold one faith higher than another. It doesn't discount religion altogether. So how does sponsoring a religion make a government able to distinguish good from evil, which is exactly what you are implying? All I see its that is encourages those in charge to tend toward being more righteous and ethnocentric.

Just like in the election results, people seem to be confused between morality and religion. The evangelical right assumes that those who don't believe in the invisible man in the sky (sorry for the facetious jab:)) can't have any basis for morality. The truth is, I have lived my life to a higher moral standard than almost every religious person I know- so I have proved to myself that knowing right from wrong doesn't require a devout belief in a higher power. I'd love to hear an explaination if you continue to think otherwise.

What is your definition of secularism, and how does it impede someone from distinguishing right from wrong?

Better yet, what is your definition of 'evil'? I think that leads to yet another hole in your argument. Do you mean 'evil' as in, non-faith based? If so, then your statement makes more sense, but you still have alot to learn.

I would say that secular humanism" is a religion -- it meets all of the epistemological and logical requirements to be a religion. And an argument that they don't believe in a god/gods doesn't hold water since neither does Zen Buddhism (and any other pantheistic religion).

But examine the circular reasoning that they use:

"My reason is my ultimate authority because it seems reasonable to me to make it so."
"The findings of human sensory experiences are the ultimate authority for discovering what is real and what is not, because our human senses have never discovered anything else: thus, human sense experience tells me that my principle is true."
"I know there can be no ultimate authority because I do not know of any such ultimate authority."
He argues for an ultimate standard of truth (himself) -- an absolute authority for what to believe. And in the process, uses circular reasoning to justify himself. Thus there is your morality. without a basis for morality perceived outside of the human experience you will never be able to come to a conclusion on what is good or evil.

Alright this is getting a bit out of control.

Please, everyone calm this down a bit. THIS IS A INTERNET FORUM! DO NOT GET BUTT-HURT BY COMMENTS ON HERE!

I will not close this thread, nor will any of the other moderators as we do not do that but please everyone, keep it civil.
-Jeff

Now defining “evil” for some is difficult. Those who struggle with that word, that concept, struggle also with concepts like “truth” and “love” and “kindness.” They struggle with them in part because they view themselves as intellectuals, beings able to conceptualize beyond most mere mortals. These “intellectuals” deem their insights to be so incisive that lesser minds cannot appreciate the subtle abstracts involved in attempting to take a concept such as “evil” and distilling it so as to remove it from a subjective framework of analysis.

IMO, I will go with the standard three main characteristics of an evil person are:

1. Pride: "I am better than you are."
2. Hypocrisy: "I have higher standards for others than for self."
3. Indifference: "I do not care."

Since secularism does away with accountability to God, it leaves man with no sense of personal guilt before God. His only concern is man-made laws, and with the inclination to evil and selfishness of fallen human nature, self-interest will be his main incentive in observing them. Social justice becomes merely a political matter, as a consequence of which we have become a nation with much injustice in religious and racial matters, in education, in housing, in labor, etc. In public life expediency and propriety become norms of human behavior.

Like I said days ago...'evil' is an objective thing. It is made up by humans...there was no pure good or pure evil before we made the ideas. Unless you're religious. Then evil is defined by what your religion says it is.
To get back to the article, it says that anyone who does not aknowledge that there is a definable 'evil' and thinks everything falls into the grey area between good and evil is, themselves, worth nothing. But this view point fits in PERFECTLY with the first two aspects of evil things you just listed. It's both arogant and hypochritical. And it even makes it seem as though the author doesn't care that the leftists are worth nothing. So if the people calling leftists 'worth nothing' because they don't 'see evil' are actually evil themselves...you see what I'm getting at.

Now defining “evil” for some is difficult. Those who struggle with that word, that concept, struggle also with concepts like “truth” and “love” and “kindness.” They struggle with them in part because they view themselves as intellectuals, beings able to conceptualize beyond most mere mortals. These “intellectuals” deem their insights to be so incisive that lesser minds cannot appreciate the subtle abstracts involved in attempting to take a concept such as “evil” and distilling it so as to remove it from a subjective framework of analysis.

IMO, I will go with the standard three main characteristics of an evil person are:

1. Pride: "I am better than you are."
2. Hypocrisy: "I have higher standards for others than for self."
3. Indifference: "I do not care."

Since secularism does away with accountability to God, it leaves man with no sense of personal guilt before God. His only concern is man-made laws, and with the inclination to evil and selfishness of fallen human nature, self-interest will be his main incentive in observing them. Social justice becomes merely a political matter, as a consequence of which we have become a nation with much injustice in religious and racial matters, in education, in housing, in labor, etc. In public life expediency and propriety become norms of human behavior.


i will be more then happy to show you evil

:)

Since secularism does away with accountability to God, it leaves man with no sense of personal guilt before God. His only concern is man-made laws, and with the inclination to evil and selfishness of fallen human nature, self-interest will be his main incentive in observing them.

So, you support good and speak against 'evil' just because you are accountable to god? You still don't seem to get my point. Good vs. evil has no parralels between believers vs. non-believers. What ever happened to doing the right thing just because? Personally, I don't need a higher power to guide me and my actions. If you do, that's you, and you should not assume everyone else is the same way.

At this point in history, I don't see it as important to have an established, government-recognized religion as compared to the beginning of civilization, when it was used for control, reproduction, and to set a moral standard. People in this country in this modern world should be able to distinguish good from evil. Our society has developed its own set of morals (akin to, but completely detached from religion), so I see the importance of religion becoming less and less as time goes on, and I certainly don't see it as necessary so that people won't go dance with the devil. To say that one must be accountable to god to resist the temptations of evil (the devil's lure) is just plain short-sighted.


So, I think I get your reasoning, as flawed as it may be. (correct me if I'm wrong)

-You think that anyone who doesn't believe in god is being helplessly reeled in by the devil and is losing thier ability to recognize evil.
-Nobody on the left believes in god. (geez, everyone knew that :rolleyes: )
-If you can't recognize evil, then youre worthless (most agreeable statement)
-put em together..... therefore, the left is worthless!

(I know you didn't make that last statement, but you have tried pretty hard to support it.)

I'm not trying to start a religious argument here (as much fun as that may be), I'm just acting as the logic and generalization police (once again :))

So, I guess we can refuse to acknoledge what our nation's evangelicals have deemed 'evil', or we can refuse to acknolede the rest of the world, and the fact that other religions think we are evil. Here is where too much optimism and narrow-mindedness can run you into trouble (can you spell I.... R.... A.... Q.....?)

Maybe we could agree to disagree?

Maybe we could agree to disagree?

Or not.

Are you serious? Is that all you've got? Have you given up? I feel I made some points for you to respond to in my last couple posts... You must not disagree if you can't find anything to say to refute anything. :)

I can see the writing on the wall. That is all I'm saying. Plus it's a heavy work day and I can't give your posts the time that they deserve at this point.

I will not close this thread, nor will any of the other moderators as we do not do that but please everyone, keep it civil.
-Jeff


Hehehe your joking right? But im not even talking about me and deyes thread. ;)

By the way who was that religious right leader that said after 9/11 that it was "our" fault that we got attacked. ;)

I can see the writing on the wall. That is all I'm saying.

No, you're saying I, and the entire left, cannot see the writing on the wall. There's a big difference. And to imply it's because the left can't appreciate religion, which is a false premise in the first place, is telling me that you might be able to see the writing on the wall, but you can only read one language.

It's a shame you don't have time to explain yourself further, I'd be all ears. :rolleyes: