http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=2&u=/ap/20050130/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_election_mideast_view

However you feel about the war in Iraq, there is no doubt that a democratic seed has been planted. Thousands may want Democracy to fail in Iraq, especially those who stand to lose power if it spreads. If people didn't stand to lose anything, why are they fighting it?

Think of the people who risked their lives to vote yesterday. It means something to them. Think of those in countries who still today don't have the right to vote... that seed is a sliver in their minds.

We have freedom and 50% of us **** on it, so don't forget the 50% of the people that matter.


Frankly, I'm sick of the war. I'd like to see our troops out of there now.
With that said, It is hard to argue with results, though. If we pull out now, we are abandoning the millions of Iraqis that risked their lives to vote.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=2&u=/ap/20050130/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_election_mideast_view

However you feel about the war in Iraq, there is no doubt that a democratic seed has been planted. Thousands may want Democracy to fail in Iraq, especially those who stand to lose power if it spreads. If people didn't stand to lose anything, why are they fighting it?

Think of the people who risked their lives to vote yesterday. It means something to them. Think of those in countries who still today don't have the right to vote... that seed is a sliver in their minds.

We have freedom and 50% of us **** on it, so don't forget the 50% of the people that matter.


Frankly, I'm sick of the war. I'd like to see our troops out of there now.
With that said, It is hard to argue with results, though. If we pull out now, we are abandoning the millions of Iraqis that risked their lives to vote.

I agree. So far 72% of the voting population has voted according to the current tally! That's 30% higher than when Clinton won in 1998 and 20% than the pre-election prediction.

The only thorn in their side are the damn Sunni majority that didn't vote and other arab countries that may look bad. It's definitely something that could flare but I certainly don't think Democracy is a shot in the dark as of now.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050130/D87UET800.html

Salty,

You mentioned 72% showing of voters amid the terrorist threats. That is something that unless I was watching Fox news, would never know. I hate the way most media will depict the situation over there as a loosing battle. When in reality, it is inevitable that we succeed. The media loves to make a mountain out of a moll hill. If one soldier is wounded or killed out there, instead of mentioning how much that soldier has done and what he/she has accomplished, they turn it around and make it sound like we're getting our asses handed to us. That is not the case.

I'll never forget all the good things that were written about Gary Gordon and Randy Shugart even though they both lost thier lives in the line of duty. Reading stuff like that makes you proud to be an American.

It just seems like these days good news doesn't make good ratings. So its a race for the media to get as much sorrow and hate as they can to your television so that you'll stay tuned.

Salty,

You mentioned 72% showing of voters amid the terrorist threats. That is something that unless I was watching Fox news, would never know. I hate the way most media will depict the situation over there as a loosing battle. When in reality, it is inevitable that we succeed. The media loves to make a mountain out of a moll hill. If one soldier is wounded or killed out there, instead of mentioning how much that soldier has done and what he/she has accomplished, they turn it around and make it sound like we're getting our asses handed to us. That is not the case.

Unfortunately it's not inevitable but the groundwork for success has undoubtedly been laid. The proof of hope is in the majority of voters that participated in the election... there’s no denying this.


I'll never forget all the good things that were written about Gary Gordon and Randy Shugart even though they both lost thier lives in the line of duty. Reading stuff like that makes you proud to be an American.

Without a doubt!


It just seems like these days good news doesn't make good ratings. So its a race for the media to get as much sorrow and hate as they can to your television so that you'll stay tuned.

Controversy sells to those that want to believe its bias. The media is a business and business is good.

The only thorn in their side are the damn Sunni majority that didn't vote and other arab countries that may look bad. It's definitely something that could flare but I certainly don't think Democracy is a shot in the dark as of now.
I thought the shiates' were the majority

Yep whatever you think about the downsides of this war, the elections are definitely an "UP".

I thought the shiates' were the majority

They are.

I was refering to the majority of Sunni Muslims that didn't vote.

Salty,

You mentioned 72% showing of voters amid the terrorist threats. That is something that unless I was watching Fox news, would never know. I hate the way most media will depict the situation over there as a loosing battle.


I was watching FOX News today, and I heard them say 60% voted. Preliminary numbers were higher, but these are still impressive.
I also watched CNN, I was curious to see the difference in coverage. There was not one HINT of pessimism or seeing the negative side of things, as you had impled the media could not avoid. Anderson Cooper sounded just as optimistic and proud as Geraldo (well, maybe not Geraldo :D). I don't think ANY news reporter would be stupid enough to express doubt or pessimism at such a revolutionary time. They did suggest that it may not turn out well beforehand, but this is only being realistic. Have you ever hard of the danger of being too optimistic? We would be fooling ourselves if we didn't expect any kind of attacks on such an symbolic day. The question was, were the attacks going to be enough to keep the people from voting?

Personally, I am not cursing this day and wishing it all had failed pitifully. Perhaps from your view, anyone that questions anything we do, or dares to suggest something may not work the way we planned , is anti-american, a drag on our efforts, and only wishes for our country's failure.

If it wern't for people expecting the worst and being prepared for it, our military occupation there would have failed long ago. There is a huge difference between airing caution and predicting failure, and you don't seem to see it.

You still haven't shown me you can think for yourself. Just keep believing everything they tell you... ;) ['they' being Shep Smith and his gang]






I'm getting really tired of this crap. People on the right, who apparently can't see anything else, take anything to their left and shove it as far away as possible, creating one giant heap of far-left liberal muck. I suggest you sort through that pile, you'll find some very intersting, useful stuff (I'm sure there's a few nice bongs in there somewhere...:D) You may think, hey you do the same thing to the right. Well, I don't. I am able to connect with many common values and can agree with lots of conservative views, and will admit that. The two parties are NOT mutually exclusive. There are countless aspects which are common between them. So, before discounting anyone's view as anti-american, listen to what they're saying and at least give it a thought.

[/rant]

Yep whatever you think about the downsides of this war, the elections are definitely an "UP".

werd

I was watching ABC news for a bit today and some retired general was on. He was saying to not be to optomistic and to wait and see what happens after the elections. Especially to the person that was voted in. He also noted that we might be seeing a increase of insurget action after the election and a lessening during the election. Either way though this a step in the right direction. I just hope they can repeat this process again and again. Well see though but Im a bit cautious.

Ignore the spelling been drinking a bit. ;)

I was watching ABC news for a bit today and some retired general was on. He was saying to not be to optomistic and to wait and see what happens after the elections. Especially to the person that was voted in. He also noted that we might be seeing a increase of insurget action after the election...


No worries, Chrisnonstop assures us 'it is inevitable that we will succeed.' :rolleyes:

I guess we've got to have some people thinking in this way. If only they could appreciate those who do the real thinking.

They are.

I was refering to the majority of Sunni Muslims that didn't vote.

I see.

anyone else catch how they keep revising the numbers down? haha

regardless it was a good day for all.. (cept those poeople who died)

You said:
"Personally, I am not cursing this day and wishing it all had failed pitifully. Perhaps from your view, anyone that questions anything we do, or dares to suggest something may not work the way we planned , is anti-american, a drag on our efforts, and only wishes for our country's failure."

No, that's not true. Definately not my point of vew.

"If it wern't for people expecting the worst and being prepared for it, our military occupation there would have failed long ago. There is a huge difference between airing caution and predicting failure, and you don't seem to see it."

You always have to prepare for the worst. However you must always remain optimistic or you are setting yourself up for failure. This is how "winners" think.

"You still haven't shown me you can think for yourself. Just keep believing everything they tell you... ;) ['they' being Shep Smith and his gang]"

I'm thinking for myself right now, and I think you're the type of person that thinks you're never wrong.

"I'm getting really tired of this crap. People on the right, who apparently can't see anything else, take anything to their left and shove it as far away as possible, creating one giant heap of far-left liberal muck. I suggest you sort through that pile, you'll find some very intersting, useful stuff (I'm sure there's a few nice bongs in there somewhere...:D) You may think, hey you do the same thing to the right. Well, I don't. I am able to connect with many common values and can agree with lots of conservative views, and will admit that. The two parties are NOT mutually exclusive. There are countless aspects which are common between them. So, before discounting anyone's view as anti-american, listen to what they're saying and at least give it a thought."

Do you think we grew up together? You don't know me, you don't know what I'm thinking and now you've just put me in a group of people you've classified as "People who can't see anything else". Stop it. There are far more constructive ways to get your point accross.

No worries, Chrisnonstop assures us 'it is inevitable that we will succeed.' :rolleyes:

I guess we've got to have some people thinking in this way. If only they could appreciate those who do the real thinking.

I could never imagine living my life as a pessimist. Scoobsport can you tell us what it’s like? Oh and just out of burning curiosity, who are those that do the real thinking? :rolleyes: :givingthebird:

Hey man we wll know republican bombs are bad
If Kerry would've won we'd be hearing about how he brought stability to the region and had a successful Iraqi election in less than a month. ;)

I could never imagine living my life as a pessimist. Scoobsport can you tell us what it’s like? Oh and just out of burning curiosity, who are those that do the real thinking? :rolleyes: :givingthebird:

Priceless :D

Well said Vibeeleven,
I had one of the guys who used to be in my unit die on Friday from an IED. I am glad to see that his life was not wasted as he was an incredible person. I think we should look at the election as the most significant day of progress in the country. We have given their people a taste of democracy. Now it's important to see how bad they want it to continue. Start bring troops back to their families and see if they care as much as they say they do. At least now all those Americans who lost their lives did not die in vein. For their sake, their families will at least get some solace knowing that they gave to a cause greater than themselves. That's whats important.

Hey man we wll know republican bombs are bad
If Kerry would've won we'd be hearing about how he brought stability to the region and had a successful Iraqi election in less than a month. ;)

No but Kerry could of brought something Bush can't. And thats change, and drastic change that I still think Iraq will need to succeed. And Iraq is less than stable, all i think scoob was saying is that don't get over excited when things are hardly over. This is just a positive step but we have MANY more to go.

I could never imagine living my life as a pessimist. Scoobsport can you tell us what it’s like? Oh and just out of burning curiosity, who are those that do the real thinking? :rolleyes: :givingthebird:


Ah but see I don't think he is living his life as a pessimist I believe its more along the lines of a realist. ;) :D

Well said Vibeeleven,
I had one of the guys who used to be in my unit die on Friday from an IED. I am glad to see that his life was not wasted as he was an incredible person. I think we should look at the election as the most significant day of progress in the country. We have given their people a taste of democracy. Now it's important to see how bad they want it to continue. Start bring troops back to their families and see if they care as much as they say they do. At least now all those Americans who lost their lives did not die in vein. For their sake, their families will at least get some solace knowing that they gave to a cause greater than themselves. That's whats important.

They shouldn't of been there in the first place. But thats another discussion. And I don't think we will be bringin back troops anytime soon sadly. More than anything I think we will be staying a few more years atleast. :(

I could never imagine living my life as a pessimist. Scoobsport can you tell us what it’s like? Oh and just out of burning curiosity, who are those that do the real thinking? :rolleyes: :givingthebird:


BWAhahahahahhahahahahahah

This made my night.

You didn't read my post, did you? If you had, well, you would understand that I simply live in reality...

I see I stuck a chord... If someone told you 2+2=4, would you flip them off and roll your eyes?

You said:

No, that's not true. Definately not my point of vew.

What is your view, then? This is just the impression I got from all of the 'insight' you've had to offer.

You always have to prepare for the worst. However you must always remain optimistic or you are setting yourself up for failure. This is how "winners" think.

Tell me, how can you be prepared for the worst when you discount feasible problems as 'anti-american' (specifically referring to your comment on the artice by the Republican congressman). As I said, I agree that it's important that some people remain optimistic (namely those in combat), but can't you see the danger of being too optimistic? You say we should be prepared for the worst. Using your logic, I call you a drag on our military efforts. ;) Understand now?


...I think you're the type of person that thinks you're never wrong.

You got it! Finally, you got something right! :D Prove me wrong and perhaps I'll change. It appears to me as if you aren't thinking for yourself, rather, FOX news is thinking for you. I believe I can see through party lines and am able to make a reasonable, objective, evaluation. I wish well for our military's efforts, but I also see it important to approach possible situations with a realistic mindset, doing all we can to be prepared. For example, this kind of thinking may have prevented 9/11, and perhaps in turn our current military dedication in the middle east. Calling this 'anti-american' is simply retarded.


Do you think we grew up together? You don't know me, you don't know what I'm thinking and now you've just put me in a group of people you've classified as "People who can't see anything else". Stop it. There are far more constructive ways to get your point accross.

Why would I need to know you to make those generalized comments? When did I put you in that group? Looks to me like you just did yourself. How about rather than making desperate pleas for me to stop being mean, why not prove to me that you CAN see something else?


Don't bring that sh*t in my house :)

I never said they should be there. All I was saying is that they are there and at least now something remotely resembling a democracy has been created. I'm not going to get into the discussion of whether they should be there or not for the 9493493 trillionth time. All I was saying is that at least now; those who are there now, those who have been there and those who have lost loved ones there will get some feeling of satisfaction knowing something was accomplished.

And im saying that its to early to tell what will happen. And that this is not a accomplishment unless it last the sands of time.

Arab League Reaction to Election
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/...storyId=4473339

Secretary General (of the Arab League) Mussa differentiates between insurgents and Iraqis "who have a stake in whatever happens in Iraq", and that the "moment is ripe for Iraqis to move from any kind of violence to political opposition according to the democratic position."

"Friction between Arabs and kurds, Christians and Muslims....must stop."

"We believe that people should not look back, should move ahead, through democracy."

Renee Montagne asks if the huge voter turnout changes the Arab view of US policy in Iraq.

Mussa replies: "To discuss US policy in Iraq, we would have to get back to the past...I propose a different approach: let us work together from now on regardless of the positions taken in the past."