To attract more manufacturers into the World Rally Championship, president of FIA Max Mosley proposes new set of cost cutting rules. Here is an article from WRC.com about this...

"Max Mosley, the president of the FIA - world motorsport's governing body - has put forward a proposal for new regulations for the World Rally Championship which he says will cut costs and could encourage new manufacturers to enter the sport.

The Super 2000 regulations, which encourage the use of common parts and limit sophisticated and expensive components and development, have been highly successful in the FIA's European Touring Car Championship and could be adapted for use in rallying. Costs to produce such a car are likely to be substantially less than their current level, which could encourage firms such as Suzuki, Renault and Fiat - who are currently not in the WRC - to enter if the rules were introduced for 2006.

Super 2000-style rally cars would be powered by a two-litre, normally aspirated engine producing around 250-270bhp, and highly-complex transmission systems such as the active differentials which are de rigeur on modern WRC cars would be banned in favour of more cost effective solutions. Gearboxes would likely be standard sequential units, and the use of exotic materials, such as titanium, ceramics, magnesium and composites would be banned unless they are already used on the original homologated production car.

Manufacturers currently competing in the WRC are currently in discussion about how to cut costs in the championship and Mosley is asking for feedback about his proposal ahead of a meeting in October. Any discussion about the future regulations of the WRC would have to take into account the plans of manufacturers - such as Citroen with the new C4 and Ford with the 2006-specification Focus - in developing cars for 2005 and beyond."

Also, as if forcing to take out Subaru's turbochargers wasn't enough, there are also talks about all WRC cars having to run transversally mounted engines. Subaru's Symmetrical All-Wheel-Drive system with it's longitudinally mounted engine and transmission will not comply with the new rules if they were to get accepted.

P.S. I had to edit this post, since I want it to be on the front page and since you are the first one to post about it, these are your news. I just wanted it too look better for the front page...

if so, that would be ghey...

if so, that would be ghey...
mos' def'. if it ain't broke, don't fix it right? :(

Confirmed....

All competitors will use a transverse 4 Naturally aspirated engine. They are hoping to encourage other manufacturers to participate in WRC. They mentioned that Subaru will have to build a new engine and Cintroen will have to scrap it's new C4 project. This will change WRC as we know it if these new regulations are implemented. Boo hoo for no boost :(

Seems stupid, why mandate any engine configuration? I don't really understand why that would encourage new manufacturers.

Petter Wins!

That sucks the big one !!

Seems stupid, why mandate any engine configuration? I don't really understand why that would encourage new manufacturers.

lowers cost for new teams to compete in... i guess...

considering the WRC is under the FIA umbrella, they are trying to the same thing they did to F1...

Kevin, where did you read that it was comfirmed?

This would be the dumbest thing ever.

Why not just have everyone drive the same exact damn car while they're at it.


:monkey:

This would be the dumbest thing ever.

Why not just have everyone drive the same exact damn car while they're at it.


:monkey:
I agree what the hell is next, to frustated to think:mad:

I haven't heard that its confirmed yet, but it sounds very possible. I can't believe that the FIA would require transverse mounted engines. The rumors of N/A and ditching sequential gearboxes and active diffs has been floating around for a while and is fairly controversial, but the transverse engine stuff is just crap. Argh.

The rumors of N/A and ditching sequential gearboxes and active diffs has been floating around for a while and is fairly controversial, but the transverse engine stuff is just crap. Argh.

They mentioned "active" transmissions to be banned. Regular sequential trannies will be ok. So, that's not really a loss, as the sequential transmissions just gave their place to "smart" trannies just few years back.

I don't think that Subaru would ever go for it if they would require transversally mounted engine and N/A. They would have to homologate the car first. Do do that, thet would have to produce it. And, they are not going to do that I think. At least with Impreza. They might cook up something tiny and stupid just to be able to participate. Something like Justy. A tiny NA I-4 hatch. Boo!

FIA is really screwing up the sport. :(

What kind of affect do you guys think this will take on the actual production of Impreza. I mean of course they would still make a turbo STI or will they?

What kind of affect do you guys think this will take on the actual production of Impreza. I mean of course they would still make a turbo STI or will they?


I sure hope so. The sad thing is that I am sure "FHI/Subaru" were already in progress to complete the 06/07' Impreza models. At least this will save them the headache of having a WRC ready car. I am still awefully mad about this. WRC is just not WRC without Subaru. I don't think there is much hope unless the rules change, because I for one don't believe that FHI is going to invest millions of $$$ to research and develop a transverse 4cyl. motor. Than on top it have it ready in time for the 05 season...

As far as I know, all rally cars are based on production versions, so if Subaru has to change their vehicle spec completely for the FIA's future regulations, the future Imprezas would most likely come out of the factories the same spec. STi owners, hang on to your cars, they might become sought-after vehicles in a few years!

"Subaru, Driven by the FIA".

I can understand this kind of “rules revolution” in a series like F1,IRL,etc. with cars that are not production based. But to do this to a series based on production cars takes from the point of a series that uses homologated cars in the first place. I can see losing boost, exotic trannys, and elec driving aids, but mandating a transverse mount is just writing certain brands out of competition. And what better way to keep other historical rally manufacturers like Porsche and Audi out of competition. I guess the FIA wants to see more CR-Vs and Fiats than STI’s on the line.

FIA is lame... like, seriously, seriously lame. I hope they get hit by a missile.

This would be the dumbest thing ever.

Why not just have everyone drive the same exact damn car while they're at it.


:monkey:

Right! If FIA is so insistent on cost reductions... they should just do the designing of the rally car, and have the different companies just manufacture them. that would be so boring.

Anyone have a link straight to the article? I can't find one on the wrc site.

That's just too much restriction! What would Subaru have to cpmpletly rediesign their cars or would they be put in some type of outlaw class???

This would be the dumbest thing ever.

Why not just have everyone drive the same exact damn car while they're at it.


:monkey:


nascar-






aloha from the summit of *-^-Mauna Kea-^-*

Instead if making Subaru and other manufactures conform to the new regulations, they should just make new competitors try harder. I bet some vehicle company went and cried like little bioches to the FIA because they wanted to play dodge ball too. Hey, who would sponsor a retard in track n field against a bunch of finely tuned machines in hopes of winning. Thats not just a pipe dream, it unrealistic. If the FIA passes this, rally cross as we know it will cease for all greater Subaru kind. :(

Some more news articles (free registration now required at worldrallynews.com)

VW Rejects Super 2000 (http://www.worldrallynews.com/artman/publish/article_689.php)

Skoda Motorsport boss Martin Muehlmeier expressed interest in the cost-saving aspects of Super 2000, but the Volkswagen group, Skoda’s owner, has formally threatened to pull out of rallying if Super 2000 replaces World Rally Cars in 2006.

Give use the grunt (http://www.worldrallynews.com/artman/publish/article_688.php)
World Championship leader Sebastien Loeb shares the widespread view that if the FIA wants a new rally formula, it needs to be more powerful than Super 2000.

Its good to see that other manufacturers are saying they don't like S2000. I assume Subaru will lodge a similar complaint. I don't have any predictions about Peugeot and Citroen, but I would guess they aren't happy with the new forumla. They may not formally denounce it, but they definitely don't endorse it 100%.

Its good to see that other manufacturers are saying they don't like S2000. I assume Subaru will lodge a similar complaint. I don't have any predictions about Peugeot and Citroen, but I would guess they aren't happy with the new forumla. They may not formally denounce it, but they definitely don't endorse it 100%.
I looked all over swrt, subaru and subaruglobal today and couldn't find any mention of the S2000 proposed rules. I was hoping there would be some insight there as to what action Subaru would take :|

It might take a while. I'm sure they aren't happy about the rule change, but a lot of people (SWRT, Prodrive, SOE/SOUK, SOJ, FHI) have to discuss the wording before they put out an official announcement. Being a big company, they have to be as diplomatic as possible in their language.

i hope this plans doesnt happen. what would be the future for scoobies on a whole?

For years I have wondered why they don't use a map when they decide the order of races. For instance, start the season in Monte Carlo, then 3 or 4 races in Europe, fly/ship out to Mexico, then Argentina, go back to Europe for 3 or 4 events & out again to Japan, then New Zealand & then Australia and then back Europe & finally GB. I'm sure it wouldn't save much, but that would be a simple easy way make things a little bit less costly. Another way to lower costs would be to have a spec tire. That doesn't hurt competition too much...

That Super 2000 would be okay as a training series (ala Craftsman trucks or Busch cars) but not as the Main Event. And I see no benefit to mandating a particular engine configuaration. They don't do that in touring racing...

^^^You forgot to throw a US Rally in there ;P

FIA is lame... like, seriously, seriously lame. I hope they get hit by a missile.


LMAO! I was actually thinking the same thing! Except I used a suicide bomber in place of a missle. :)

-Ted

I liked it when FIA overhauled the rules to Formula One, I'm kind a getting sick and tired when Ferrari's Michael Shumacher wins. It's already a given when he gets the pole during qualifying, 9 out 10 he will win on race day. So why bother. The only thing that can prevent from winning is the reliability factor, which Ferrari doesn't have a problem with. 6 Championship under his belt, the 7th already bagged with a couple of races left in the Formula One calendar for 05'. C'mon now, it gets boring. That's the reason FIA overhauled their rules, ratings and money from privately own teams that are not catching up to the likes of Ferrari, Williams BMW, McClaren Mercedez, Renault and BAR Honda. However, to change WRC rules.

Hmm. . . I understand FIA's position when they announce the changes. But it kinda blew me when they'd single out a manufacturer and has to totally redesign it's drivetrain layout. I guess that's their way of saying "a level playing field." However, I'm really interested on what kind of traverse engine Subaru coming up with (if one at all).

I too can no longer find that article on the wrc.com. I did quote the whole thing though. Maybe it leaked out too early and they removed it.

Alex: Its burried in there somewhere
http://origin.wrc.com/News.aspx?PO_ID=4758&flash=False&lang=en_GB

This:
Alex: Its burried in there somewhere
http://origin.wrc.com/News.aspx?PO_ID=4758&flash=False&lang=en_GB

and this:.
To attract more manufacturers into the World Rally Championship, president of FIA Max Mosley proposes new set of cost cutting rules. Here is an article from WRC.com about this...

[i]"Max Mosley, the president of the FIA - world motorsport's governing body - has put forward a proposal for new regulations for the World Rally Championship which he says will cut costs and could encourage new manufacturers to enter the sport..."i]

P.S. I had to edit this post, since I want it to be on the front page and since you are the first one to post about it, these are your news. I just wanted it too look better for the front page...

are saying the same thing.

EsoterikWRX- Yeah, I believe Alex was asking for the link, so I provided it. It wasn't supposed to be a new news article.

No body wants to see a cheap version of a ralley car! I want to see the high speed machine I will never be able to afford. Thats where all the new technology comes from. dont go backwards on us . If the other companies can't stand the heat they don't need to be in the WRC. This would suck to no ends.

Nothing Is Sacred!!!

If the proposed engine/drivetrain spec comes to fruition, it will greatly degrade the cars ability to drift (which is what I enjoy most about watching wrc). A 2 liter NA engine has NO torque, racing technology can get equal hp out of it, but the torque will be about a 3rd of what it is now.

On a side note.. I wonder if Subaru would be forced to use a Saab engine (2 liter 4, transversely mounted) in a NA configuration?

Torque is not such a big deal for a race car. You can just gear it down and run more revs and get the same torque at the driveshaft. It's all about power. F1 cars only have about 300 lb-ft of torque. It's 900hp that makes them fly.
2.0l normally aspirated, should be over 300 hp if the rules are not very restrictive. They may well be faster in a straight line than WRC cars. Remember that WRC cars are EXTREMELY limited by the inlet restrictor.

*edit* just saw 250-270 hp in the article
That would suck. They will be slower than Group N.

I do think the new rules package is pathetic. They are trying to open it up to companies who only make crappy FWD normally aspirated econoboxes. It might be good for the WRC business, but the whole point of production-based racing is to let the race cars improve the road cars and vice versa.

they should just make different levels / stages of rally racing no companies will have to break their own traditional designs

http://www.worldrallynews.com/artman/publish/article_715.php

Looks like Super2000 might have just been the FIA scaring manufacturers. The FIA just voted today to keep a detuned version of WRCar regulations rather then switch to S2000 (only voted in principal, specific regulations still need to be worked out)


The FIA World Council has approved the principle of detuning World Rally Cars for the 2006 World Championship. Details will not be resolved until December, but the intention is to reduce costs and attract new manufacturers.

The likelihood is that much of the high technology that has sent car costs soaring will be banned, including hydraulically controlled differentials and the most sophisticated electronics.

Other changes include a reduction in stage distance from a maximum of 400 to 360 kilometres and a ban on flex-service.

A further rule change allows crews which retire on legs one or two to restart subsequent legs. The crew will be penalised five minutes on each stage missed, this to be added to the fastest time of the driver's priority group.

For the first time in its history, the FIA has granted rallying precedence over Formula 1: the calendar outlined two months ago will stand, while the latest changes to the Grand Prix schedule have been rejected.

© Copyright worldrallynews.com 2000-2004

this is really, really, really, really lame.

Although, there is one cool thing...
Gearboxes would likely be standard sequential units, and the use of exotic materials, such as titanium, ceramics, magnesium and composites would be banned unless they are already used on the original homologated production car.

This means some really advanced crap in our road cars - to be competive and still have a fan base they are really going to have to engineer some nice things, and have them on the road cars.

I dont know, i really, really hope they don't do this. I wish they'd bring back Group S. :D

Max Moseley. If he does what he does to WRC like he did F1, then WRC is gonna be sorta boring. I always watched those motor sport to see what kind of cool technology was gonna be in the cars in addition to the racing. Now it is gonna be a econo-motor sport with cost-cutting and banned technology. Pretty analogous to NASCAR if you ask me.

Tim

Well, you have to look at it from a business standpoint. More competitors and manufacturers will likely draw a larger fanbase, and increase advertising revenues. I just hope they don't take it to the extreme and ban turbos, boxer engines, and AWD!! I just don't see how that can be good for the sport. Banning exotic metals is one thing, but don't take away the very thing that people watch the sport in the first place for!!

Well, you have to look at it from a business standpoint. More competitors and manufacturers will likely draw a larger fanbase, and increase advertising revenues. I just hope they don't take it to the extreme and ban turbos, boxer engines, and AWD!! I just don't see how that can be good for the sport. Banning exotic metals is one thing, but don't take away the very thing that people watch the sport in the first place for!!


Well they used to have twin turbocharged V8s in F1. I wouldn't be surprised.

Tim

If there are GT300 and GT500 classes, why can't there be a weak-a$$ class for all the cars who can't compete now with all the well known companies?

only a suggestion..

You mean like a NASCAR Rally Series? :D

If there are GT300 and GT500 classes, why can't there be a weak-a$$ class for all the cars who can't compete now with all the well known companies?

only a suggestion..

no, like the jgtc series

There are a few classes of rally cars, but the fastest are the "open"/WRC, then there are 2wd, & other production based classes. But I guess that is not enough now. BTW last week Dave Despain said that both French car marques will drop out of WRC by the end of next year, so I am not sure how this will play out...

bring back those crazy as hell group b cars . those cars were absolute monsters . i miss seeing those wild machines.

bring back those crazy as hell group b cars . those cars were absolute monsters . i miss seeing those wild machines.

w3rd

The problem or at least a big part of it is that the homologation rules have not kept up with the times. Remember that these rules were changed to encourage manufacturers(two French ones that I can think of). Wherever one lives in the world there is no awd turbo 307 to be had. Same for the Citroen Xsara. And remember those Escort Cosworths? You could buy some sort of street car based Escort that had a turbo and awd. There is a focus turbo in europe but it is front wheel drive. As usual the FIA doesn't perform any maintenance on its race series rulebook until its too late and major revisions are needed that leave the most committed manufacturers in the cold(Subaru,Mitsu). I put Mitsu in there because one can purchase an Evo. With Peugeot and Citroen their race budget is just that, a race budget. There is no budget to produce a street going version of their rally car because they don't have to. Along with the fact that these are two similar enough cars that they can share parts! Campaigning four essentially identical race cars with all the privateers sharing your brand certainly makes a good showing on the results board. Make the manufacturers homologate for real. Not just body panels and displacement. This would I think, make the race budget relevant to the product line as opposed to a manufacturer saying "Hey we're champs now buy our stuff! disregard the fact that you can't buy the car we became champions with"