http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040901/ap_on_re_eu/russia_school_seizure&cid=518&ncid=716

Have they no shame? Taking kids hostage and threatning to kill them? WTF??? :mad: I hope they execute every last terrorist in that school when it is all said and done. No trial, nothing just execute them!

Have they no shame? Taking kids hostage and threatning to kill them? WTF??? :mad: I hope they execute every last terrorist in that school when it is all said and done. No trial, nothing just execute them!

Have you no compassion!?
Islam is the religion of peace.

Have they no shame? Taking kids hostage and threatning to kill them? WTF??? :mad: I hope they execute every last terrorist in that school when it is all said and done. No trial, nothing just execute them!

My Mob Boss sense would have us kill every hostage-taker, the hostage takers' entire families, their mosques, and drop a bomb on their native hometowns for good measure. To kill a weed, you need to destroy it's roots.

...To kill a weed, you need to destroy it's roots.
Yes, I agree.
The roots of terrorism are well founded in the poor economical outlook of these disenfranchised countries.
We, the leaders of the free world, in order to finally destroy the weed of terrorism, must provide economic aid & stability to these desperate Islamic freedom fighters.

Have you no compassion!?
Islam is the religion of peace.

Is it Islamic terrorists that have done this? I didn't read that in the story.

Chechnya is predominately Muslim. I don't think that is the issue, however. The issue is that Chechnya has been fighting Russia for centuries.

An interesting article can be found here: http://www.peaceinchechnya.org/news/200310-11%20-%20BGW%20Article.htm

The article has an obvious slant, but it is interesting nonetheless - Bush was condemning the Russians for their brutal attacks on Chechnya during his campaign in '99. After September 11, Bush characterized the Chechnyans as terrorists, even though the Chechnyan government was moderate, and opposed Islamic extremists.

To me, this thread underlines a basic problem we suffer from in these times - we are far to willing to group any nation as "them" and can't be bothered with the details.

Chechnya is predominately Muslim. I don't think that is the issue, however. The issue is that Chechnya has been fighting Russia for centuries.

To me, this thread underlines a basic problem we suffer from in these times - we are far to willing to group any nation as "them" and can't be bothered with the details.

US=Bad, Them=Good. Arms are for hugging, not killing.

US=Bad, Them=Good. Arms are for hugging, not killing.

Man, you are HellaDumb. LOL

My Mob Boss sense would have us kill every hostage-taker, the hostage takers' entire families, their mosques, and drop a bomb on their native hometowns for good measure. To kill a weed, you need to destroy it's roots.

So what are the roots? A region which has been at war for centuries leads to generations of hate and criminal activity on both accounts, or is it simply Islam?

I think the root is blind hatred, and we have some weeds popping up in our own front yards. But maybe you're right, maybe the solution to this problem is mass genocide and wiping out of an entire religion and culture.

Chechnya is predominately Muslim. I don't think that is the issue, however.

Obviously with recent developments, this is the issue.
These terrorist scum plotted & carried out an action that involved the torture & murder of children.
What further proof is needed for us to realize that those that follow the poisoned branch of the Islamic faith need to be removed from the table of mankind?
Look how they treat children!

You can't think that way though!!! How can't you guys realize for every 1 you kill, you make 4 more pissed off or more pissed off and ready to kill! You can't JUST use military action, you have to also tkae the "hearts and minds" of the general population. The more you go after them the more you might kill a civilian and piss many more people off.
Cheers
-Jeff

You can't think that way though!!! How can't you guys realize for every 1 you kill, you make 4 more pissed off or more pissed off and ready to kill! You can't JUST use military action, you have to also tkae the "hearts and minds" of the general population. The more you go after them the more you might kill a civilian and piss many more people off.
Cheers
-Jeff

OK, smarty-pants...what did these children do to piss off the Islamic terrorists?
Why do you defend the actions of murderous scum?

You will NEVER win the hearts & minds of these people; If you're not Muslim, you're the enemy.
Why should the rest of the world help the "poor" Muslims, such as the Palestinians, when their own leadership, Arafat, steals their money?

:monkey: them all.

What did these CHILDREN do to deserve this?

So Oaf your suggesting we do what the Nazi's did to the Jews? Sounds to me basically the samething Hitler stated...

There is no way you can win a "war" against terrosim, its not a war, but i digress, by using force. You win it by showing them the opposite of what their leaders tell them we are. A big step would stopping the support we are giving Isarael right now. Watch the documentary "Death In Gaza", god knows its on HBO a ton, and you will see why these individuals hate us so much and how come killing them is not the answer. If you don't see it then sorry, you will be running down a slippery slope that no one will be able to pick you up from.

So Oaf your suggesting we do what the Nazi's did to the Jews? Sounds to me basically the samething Hitler stated...

There is no way you can win a "war" against terrosim, its not a war, but i digress, by using force. You win it by showing them the opposite of what their leaders tell them we are. A big step would stopping the support we are giving Isarael right now. Watch the documentary "Death In Gaza", god knows its on HBO a ton, and you will see why these individuals hate us so much and how come killing them is not the answer. If you don't see it then sorry, you will be running down a slippery slope that no one will be able to pick you up from.

My esteemed collegue from the Great State of Texas:

Whoa, there, pardner!
Please re-read the first two sentences of your post.
The first sentence says that Nazis merely killed off the Jews after the Jews had waged a long terror campaign against the peaceful Nazis.
I know that's not what you mean, right?
The Jews of pre war Germany did not send suicide bombers onto to German buses or trolleys and kill civilians, did they?
Please name the school that militant Jews stormed & butchered over 300 innocent people, half of which were children?
Will you agree with me that the Nazis attempted to kill off the Jews for no reason?
If yes, your argument that how we (should)deal with terrorists is the same way Nazis dealt with the Jews is wrong.

If you cannot agree with the above, there's no point in continuing this debate, and I say "Good day,sir/ma'am."

This topic was about a school taken over in Russia by Islamic terrorists.
Yet you bring up Isreal & how we need to stop supporting Isreal, which, by the way, does not share a border with Russia.
You do realize what would probably happen if we stopped supporting Isreal?
You do realize that Isreal is a soveriegn nation, and reccognized as such by the UN and every other non-muslim nation?

But Isreal is a subject for another thread. If you wish, I can start a thread where we can debate that. ;)

I think you missed my point entirely in reference to nazi's.

You stated this "You will NEVER win the hearts & minds of these people; If you're not Muslim, you're the enemy. " That is exactly the type of attitude Hitler had. If your a jew, you can not be changed. Simple as that. And hence killed. Of course Jews did not do terrorists acts. But Hitler had the same attitude your stating about Muslims. Your putting them ALL in one group. On top of that you will never ever be able to win a war on "terroism" since its a idea not a force or army. Your logic is severaly flawed if you believe you can.


I brought up Isreal, for the sole purpose of a example where terrorism is not brought to its knee's by killing people. You can't win anything by having that mindset. Of course if you do genocide on all those of muslim faith i guess you could then maybe cut down on some of the terrorist acts. Of course you fail to take note is that anyone can be a terrorist, prime example Timmthy McBae. (How ever you spell that name.) Sure wasn't a Muslim terrorist.

"You do realize that Isreal is a soveriegn nation, and reccognized as such by the UN and every other non-muslim nation?"

Funny I thought so was Iraq. Oh wait they didn't follow resolutions put on them by the UN. Oh but wait, Isreal has defied more UN resolutions than any other country.

Oh, and you really think Isreal is defenseless? You got to be kidding me. They are not a weak nation whatso ever. And by support I meant stop giving them billions of dollars a year. We gain nothing but hate in return.

Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing. Use it next time instead of zeroing on one of the words that I stated. Its like I stated Hitler and you automatically thought my argument was flawed. I put Isreal in there and you took the wrong point entirely. Please read what you wrote and then refer back to my post. Oh and I might live in Texas but im not FROM Texas. ;)

One last thing. I'll proably get a lot of slack for this. But I don't not believe what Palestinians, consitutes terrorism. To me its more of the only form they have left to defend there land. Hence freedom fighters. I could write a essay on this. Maybe, I will when I have the time. Again, watch the documentary that is on HBO, all the time called, "Death In Gaza" it shows a lot of the reasons why the Palestinians do what they do. Oh and serioulsy if you think Isreal is innocent read up on how it came to be and what it did.

This topic was about a school taken over in Russia by Islamic terrorists.

That is the point in question, and what the debate in this thread really boils down to. You maintain it is Islam, and ignore the Chechnya separitists...I don't really know the answer, but I think that whoever did this is so full of hate that they would kill women and children. And that is deplorable. Just as the Palestinians resorting to terrorism against the Jews, and others, is deplorable, Unregistered. I believe the Palestinian prospects would be much better today if they had not resorted to terrorism in their fight.

The real question is what drives people to such acts?

To answer Blingbling,
Organized religion drives people to do terroristic things. All religions that are organized into some power hierarchy, at some point in time, launch a terrorist attack. Currently it's Islam, and some Jewish attacks. But in the middle ages it was the Christians marching across the middle-east raping and pillaging anyone they met.
As soon as you give one person power over others based purely on faith, and then a socio-religious institution is formed based on this, over time corrupt individuals will take advantage of the system and cause f***ed up s***. There are so many examples throughout history it's almost funny that people still defend organized religion; the crussades, Isreal/Palastinien conflict, Al-Queda, Catholic priests with little boys, white supremasists (most of whom assemble under a christian-church-racism-group). Just about every war and all terrorist attacks have been over organized religion.

By the way, religion can be great at the personal level. Only organized religion and the institutions that result are what f*** up the world

^^^ Wow, I never agreed with anything more...

Evil surfaces in many mediums. If there was no such thing as organized religion, terrible things would manifest from different sources.

It is unreasonable to make the claim that because of a small percentage of malignant "organized religion" believers, all organized religion is bad or all people who hold faith in something are misguided.

Granted, this hits me on a personal level as I do believe in God. But I take this more in the misplaced context of thinking that all Muslim Arabs are misguided, hijack-waiting jihadists. That is fallacious reasoning IMO. And again, if they (they being radical religious extremists) did not have religion as their core, something else would take its place (i.e. jingoism, ethnocentricism, etc...).

To answer Blingbling,
Organized religion drives people to do terroristic things. All religions that are organized into some power hierarchy, at some point in time, launch a terrorist attack. Currently it's Islam, and some Jewish attacks. But in the middle ages it was the Christians marching across the middle-east raping and pillaging anyone they met.
As soon as you give one person power over others based purely on faith, and then a socio-religious institution is formed based on this, over time corrupt individuals will take advantage of the system and cause f***ed up s***. There are so many examples throughout history it's almost funny that people still defend organized religion; the crussades, Isreal/Palastinien conflict, Al-Queda, Catholic priests with little boys, white supremasists (most of whom assemble under a christian-church-racism-group). Just about every war and all terrorist attacks have been over organized religion.

By the way, religion can be great at the personal level. Only organized religion and the institutions that result are what f*** up the world

That is the best post I have yet read in this forum. You are totally correct.

-Chris

That is the point in question, and what the debate in this thread really boils down to. You maintain it is Islam, and ignore the Chechnya separitists...I don't really know the answer, but I think that whoever did this is so full of hate that they would kill women and children. And that is deplorable. Just as the Palestinians resorting to terrorism against the Jews, and others, is deplorable, Unregistered. I believe the Palestinian prospects would be much better today if they had not resorted to terrorism in their fight.

The real question is what drives people to such acts?


Bling you confuse me. Why do you think Palestinians blow themseleves up? They like killing themselves?! Of course not everyone wants to live. The Palestinians have no army compared to Isreal they are using their own lives as a last defense on losing their land. Seriously, read up on how Isreal came to be. The Isreal started calling the Palestinians, terrorist right after 9/11 and using it as a way to grab sympathy from the average American. Again I implore you guys to watch the documentary, "Death In Gaza", which is shown regularly on HBO. Or go rent it. This will atleast show some of what the Palestinians face each day. And how its not their religion that drives alot of them to blow themseleves up. Its what the Isreal people are doing with tanks, helicoptors, bulldozers, and other high tech weaponary.

Oh and to answer what drives them, its the loss of their land, their homes, their family's, that has driven them to such extents. Please I implore you to read up on how many Isreal have died compared to how many Palestinians have been killed.

By the way I in no way claim I know how to fix the situation. But I do claim that what the Palestinians are doing is NOT terroism in the sense that it is being used.

Evil surfaces in many mediums. If there was no such thing as organized religion, terrible things would manifest from different sources.

It is unreasonable to make the claim that because of a small percentage of malignant "organized religion" believers, all organized religion is bad or all people who hold faith in something are misguided.

Granted, this hits me on a personal level as I do believe in God. But I take this more in the context of thinking that all Muslim Arabs are misguided, hijack-waiting jihadists. That is fallacious reasoning IMO. And again, if they (they being radical religious extremists) did not have religion as their core, something else would take its place (i.e. jingoism, ethnocentricism, etc...).


Yep, and double yep.

The Palestinians have no army compared to Isreal they are using their own lives as a last defense on losing their land. Seriously, read up on how Isreal came to be. The Isreal started calling the Palestinians, terrorist right after 9/11 and using it as a way to grab sympathy from the average American. Again I implore you guys to watch the documentary, "Death In Gaza", which is shown regularly on HBO.

Correct, the Palestinians have no army, while the Jews have a US funded army, even though Israel defies UN resolutions. I know how Israel's statehood was mandated after the second world war. My point is that I believe world sympathy would prevail on the side of the Palestinians if groups like Hamas had not resorted to violence on civilians. Call it what you want, it sounds like terrorism to me. Same goes for Israel's actions of using bulldozers to mow down apartments without warning residents living there. Regardless of when the Jews started calling the Palestinians "terrorists", both sides have been at it for about 50 years. Do you not think what happened at the 1972 Olympics was a terrorist act? Neither side is without blame in this conflict, as is the case in many conflicts.

I am good friends with a Palestinian guy I work with. His family has seen first hand what the Jews, armed with American weapons, have done. Things which would never get reported here, because it would subvert our foreign policy. His cousin died in labor at an Israeli check point. The Jews would not let her pass the checkpoint to go to the hospital. Of course, the Jews were thinking that perhaps she was carrying a bomb, not a child. That is the problem in a nut shell and that is why people are willing to strap bombs to themselves, because they are beyond angry. But to commit these wreckless acts on civilians is not acceptable, and hinders their cause.

That, is also part of the cause in this current situation which began this thread. It's about war that has gone on for many generations. People do very bad things to one another in war. My grandfather was only in the Pacific a couple of years during WW2, yet he still gets a look in his eye whenever the Japanese are brought up, and he still refers to them as gooks. I can only imagine what hatred must exist when generations of people fight one another. They don't think of women and children - they are just the enemy.

I think you should expand your education of the Palestinian situation beyond the HBO documentary, but do appreciate the recommendation. I will rent it.

My esteemed collegue from the Great State of Texas:

Whoa, there, pardner!
Please re-read the first two sentences of your post.
The first sentence says that Nazis merely killed off the Jews after the Jews had waged a long terror campaign against the peaceful Nazis.
I know that's not what you mean, right?
The Jews of pre war Germany did not send suicide bombers onto to German buses or trolleys and kill civilians, did they?
Please name the school that militant Jews stormed & butchered over 300 innocent people, half of which were children?
Will you agree with me that the Nazis attempted to kill off the Jews for no reason?
If yes, your argument that how we (should)deal with terrorists is the same way Nazis dealt with the Jews is wrong.

If you cannot agree with the above, there's no point in continuing this debate, and I say "Good day,sir/ma'am."

This topic was about a school taken over in Russia by Islamic terrorists.
Yet you bring up Isreal & how we need to stop supporting Isreal, which, by the way, does not share a border with Russia.
You do realize what would probably happen if we stopped supporting Isreal?
You do realize that Isreal is a soveriegn nation, and reccognized as such by the UN and every other non-muslim nation?

But Isreal is a subject for another thread. If you wish, I can start a thread where we can debate that. ;)


look up the follwoing incidents

1. King David Hotel, July 22, 1946.
2. Sharafat, Feb. 7, 1951.
3. Deir Yassin, April 10, 1948.
4. Falameh, April 2, 1951.
5. Naseruddine, April 14, 1948.
6. Quibya, Oct. 14, 1953.
7. Carmel, April 20, 1948.
8. Nahalin, March, 28, 1954.
9. Al-Qabu, May 1, 1948.
10. Gaza, Feb. 28, 1955.
11. Beit Kiras, May 3, 1948.
12. Khan Yunis, May 31, 1955.
13. Beitkhoury, May 5, 1948.
14. Khan Yunis Again, Aug. 31, 1955
15. Az-Zaytoun, May 6, 1948.
16. Tiberia, Dec. 11, 1955.
17. Wadi Araba, May 13, 1950.
18. As-Sabha, Nov. 2, 1955.
19. Gaza Again, April 5, 1956.
20. Houssan, Sept. 25, 1956.
21. Rafa, Aug. 16, 1956.
22. Qalqilyah, Oct. 10, 1956.
23. Ar-Rahwa, Sept. 12, 1956.
24. Kahr Kassem, Oct. 29, 1956.
25. Gharandal, Sept. 13, 1956.
26. Gaza Strip, Nov. 1956.
26. Gaza Strip, Nov. 1956.

Correct, the Palestinians have no army, while the Jews have a US funded army, even though Israel defies UN resolutions. I know how Israel's statehood was mandated after the second world war. My point is that I believe world sympathy would prevail on the side of the Palestinians if groups like Hamas had not resorted to violence on civilians. Call it what you want, it sounds like terrorism to me. Same goes for Israel's actions of using bulldozers to mow down apartments without warning residents living there. Regardless of when the Jews started calling the Palestinians "terrorists", both sides have been at it for about 50 years. Do you not think what happened at the 1972 Olympics was a terrorist act? Neither side is without blame in this conflict, as is the case in many conflicts.

I am good friends with a Palestinian guy I work with. His family has seen first hand what the Jews, armed with American weapons, have done. Things which would never get reported here, because it would subvert our foreign policy. His cousin died in labor at an Israeli check point. The Jews would not let her pass the checkpoint to go to the hospital. Of course, the Jews were thinking that perhaps she was carrying a bomb, not a child. That is the problem in a nut shell and that is why people are willing to strap bombs to themselves, because they are beyond angry. But to commit these wreckless acts on civilians is not acceptable, and hinders their cause.

That, is also part of the cause in this current situation which began this thread. It's about war that has gone on for many generations. People do very bad things to one another in war. My grandfather was only in the Pacific a couple of years during WW2, yet he still gets a look in his eye whenever the Japanese are brought up, and he still refers to them as gooks. I can only imagine what hatred must exist when generations of people fight one another. They don't think of women and children - they are just the enemy.

I think you should expand your education of the Palestinian situation beyond the HBO documentary, but do appreciate the recommendation. I will rent it.


I have i was just stating that because it a source on very easy source for others to see not just read about. I will agree if you call what the Isreals are doing terroism, which it is, then I will agree some what that what palestiniens are doing is terroism. I just can't totally agree since it is their last resort to save their lands. But besides that very good post. :)

One thing though, why do the Palestiniens have to stop first? Why not the agressors in this the Isreals? Since they are the ones slowly taking over the others land. But thats just a side thought and trivial really. Both are responsible in one sense or another.

You can't think that way though!!! How can't you guys realize for every 1 you kill, you make 4 more pissed off or more pissed off and ready to kill! You can't JUST use military action, you have to also tkae the "hearts and minds" of the general population. The more you go after them the more you might kill a civilian and piss many more people off.
Cheers
-Jeff


That is true to an extent, the problem that I see with what you say is that the world needs to unite and take a stand against these F---ing terrorists and not back down and show them we're scared, we need to fight and kill them. The more we back down, the more power we give them, we drop our arms, then they control the world.

Wrong. You gain nothing by killing them, but more reason for people to turn to their cause. Again watch "Death at Gaza". It illustrates this beautifuly. And again you forget that ANYONE can be a terrorist. Your neighbor could be one and no way you could tell. How can you kill every random individual that might be a terroirst. You can't its impossible. You have to win the MINDS and HEARTS of those around them. If you don't, you will never change anything. Note I don't say win, since you can't win the "war" on terrorism.

Im spanish. I have grown up around terrorism for a bit of my life. So has all my spanish side of my family. The group called ETA use terrorism as a form of politics. They have been hunted down killed etc, for years and years and guess what. Not one thing has changed. Car bombs still randomly go off in certain cities. Politicians get sniped. You don't keep doing the samething over and over again. You become smarter and try to change things. The best way imho is to win their minds over that is the only way.

Wrong. You gain nothing by killing them, but more reason for people to turn to their cause. Again watch "Death at Gaza". It illustrates this beautifuly. And again you forget that ANYONE can be a terrorist. Your neighbor could be one and no way you could tell. How can you kill every random individual that might be a terroirst. You can't its impossible. You have to win the MINDS and HEARTS of those around them. If you don't, you will never change anything. Note I don't say win, since you can't win the "war" on terrorism.

Im spanish. I have grown up around terrorism for a bit of my life. So has all my spanish side of my family. The group called ETA use terrorism as a form of politics. They have been hunted down killed etc, for years and years and guess what. Not one thing has changed. Car bombs still randomly go off in certain cities. Politicians get sniped. You don't keep doing the samething over and over again. You become smarter and try to change things. The best way imho is to win their minds over that is the only way.

Dude.....wake up and come into the real world, you fight the terrorists and put them in jail or kill them you gain justice, and one or two less terrorists that are free, win the minds and hearts, um it's nearly impossible as stated before, some of these people are saying stupid sh*t like it's all a conspiricy and the Americans are behind it........real world you can't just talk....you have to back up your talk and take action. All we can do to win the minds is.....go into those countries and tell them you harbor terrorists, get them out or we'll get them out for you. It's people who think like the way you s who give terrorism a chance to happen, if all these countries stood up to these terrorists and faught them themselves the there would be less terrorism.

What personal experience do you have with terrorism? How many times have you seen a car blow up? How many times have you been afraid to go to certain cities? You need to wake up and come into the "real" world. Your telling someone that has dealt with these issues first hand to come to the real world. Thats laughable. You have NO clue whatso ever what terrorism is about and how it affects the people that deal with it day to day. You really have some outrages ideas on how to handle a issue that is not black and white. But I'll humor you.

Like i stated before, ETA has been going on for years in Northern Spain and Southeren France. (Im from northern spain.) The police has arrested/killed tons of ETA members etc. Guess what NOTHING has changed. Wake up dude force will not change a thing. Second, I found this statement very amusing. "All we can do to win the minds is.....go into those countries and tell them you harbor terrorists, get them out or we'll get them out for you." So now the US has the power to enter random countries at will if they think terrorist are in their mists. Great logic man that will really make us less of a target, and cause less people to hate us. Yep, just AWESOME idea. I also found this little bit intresting, "It's people who think like the way you s who give terrorism a chance to happen, if all these countries stood up to these terrorists and faught them themselves the there would be less terrorism." Yeah so Spain, France and countless other countries just let the terrorist walk all over them and have their way. Your so nieve its not even funny. They have FAUGHT these terrorist. Guess what NOTHING has changed. Let me make it pretty clear for you, everytime you take one out another will rise because you killed a friend, a brother, a father etc... And please do tell how do you tell a random individual is a terrorist? Because you do know anyone can be one.

You need to win the minds and heart of the people to win over terrorism. And terrorism is not a "war" or something that can be won. It is something that can be lessened. But sadly thats about it. See if you win the minds and hearts around them. They will no longer resent you. The terrorist might try to act but the people will not stand for it. They will no longer harbor them. Maybe I can make a better case for you this way. Your enemy knows someone else that scratched your car up. He won't tell you anything will he? Of course not he hates you. Now say that enemy was a friend. Your friend would rat him out and help you find him. You must gain the support of the people, for terrorism to go down. Their is NO other way, unless you concider taking out full nations.

What is the solution, then, Unregistered? I don't disagree that waging "war" against regions, countries or governments is the most effective way to deal with the problem in some circumstances, Spain, Ireland, and Iraq being examples. However, one cannot be complacent when dealing with those who inflict violence on civilians.
Certainly, some foreign policy changes would decrease the problem, but you're always going to have extremists who disagree with anything you do, particularly if you're the strongest, richest kid on the block, liket the USA. I tend to think of the situation in the same way as I think of gangs, organized crime and murders. These "terrorists" are nothing more than an organized syndicate of criminals. They get together, and plan crime. My inclination is law enforcement, both civilian and military, needs to study how civilization has dealt with organized crime in the past, to best determine how to do so now. I firmly believe that the Islamic terrorists, which hijacked the planes on September 11, 2001, had a strong desire to provoke the USA into the exactly the types of actions we have taken - specifically to wage war against Islamic nations and to incite anti-Islamic rhetoric. We should not have given them the pleasure. I believe our efforts would have been better spent hunting the cells which plan these acts.

You can not win. Its impossible, Terrorism is not a army. Its a form of attack. You have to win over the people of the country. And have them rebel vs the terrorist. Even then this will not cancel out terrorism, since anyone can hold a grudge and plant a bomb. Get my point? This war on terror is bull****. Its not something you can win. I don't disagree, in that taking down terrorist organizations is a bad thing. But the way he suggested in doing it is way wrong. You can't just go in at will and bully the rest of the world. We already have tons of people hating us because of how we handled Iraq. My solution, is terrorist get their support from the people around them. The ones that hate you but don't do anything about it. Yet, they don't tell on them. If we win them over through acts that show that they are being mislead, then we have a shot at lessing terrorist acts against us. That to me is a viable solution that will lessen terrorist acts on our turf. Show me another and I'll gladly concider it, since i do believe you can handle a situation more than one way.

Terrorist, to me are not "are nothing more than an organized syndicate of criminals, " because one person can just as easily be a terrorist on his own. And doesn't need a organization behind him. Timmthy McBae (how ever you spell that.) Is a prime example of this. I think you guys are only looking at one aspect of terrorism. And thats the extreem Islamic side of it. There are other groups and individuals that one can concider terrorist. So its not as simple as taking out a group. While I do agree that force is needed at times. Killing them is not the solution. Its a "quick" fix, that will not change things in the long run.

You can not win. Its impossible, Terrorism is not a army. Its a form of attack. You have to win over the people of the country. And have them rebel vs the terrorist. Even then this will not cancel out terrorism, since anyone can hold a grudge and plant a bomb. Get my point?

I see your point, and agree that you cannot stop all terrorism. But can't you say the same thing about crime? You cannot stop crime, there will always be criminals, but you have to fight against it. The real debate is about how one fights it. England, India, Pakistan and the USA all have very different ways of enforcing laws and doling out punishment, for example. There is no "correct" answer, as there will always be differing points of view and we will always be learning new technologies and ways to fight crime. The issue of international terrorism is made much more difficult because of these differing ideas. Therefore, the first step is to foster cooperation with the governments of people. If it is painfully obvious that they will not cooperate, you have no choice but to take them out, as in Afghanistan. The same argument was used for Iraq, but I disagree, as does most the world.

BTW, I spent a several days in Donostio (San Sebastion) in 1996. Those were some great days!