I'm new to the world of the subaru, but i am in love with it already.

I have a 99 GC-8, which i just recently purchased. I was wondering what engine is in it, and if it is possible to turbo the engine as-is, meaning no need to swap for a new WRX engine.

Any help will be appreciated (i have also posted this in the turbo section as well

The 2.5RS has an EJ25 motor. This is the internal designation of the motor,as GC8 is to the chasis of your car. Sport Compact Car magazine turboed their 2.5 with kit from Minnam. This kit used the stok headers with an up pipe, external wastegate, downpipe, turbo, and intercooler for around $3,000 if my memory serves me correctly. Also, the '04 model WRX STi will have a turbo 2.5 liter engine putting out 300hp and 300lb/ft of torque! It can be done!


Wes H.

i think this is still SOHC, but 9.8 CR. 00-01 is SOHC with 10.0 CR. I believe MY98 is a DOHC with 8.x - 9.x CR. I think MY98 is the most ideal to do force induction because it's lower CR and DOHC.

First off, sorry bud but you don't actually have a GC8 unless you imported it. That's the model code for a real WRX sedan. If you have a coupe (which I think was all that was available as an RS in '99) you have a GM6, which is a 2-door with EJ25. Don't worry though, 99% of folks call the old style GC8 regardless of how many doors or what motor it actually has. To double check, the code will be the 4th, 5th, and 6th digits of your VIN.

Yes, you can turbo your car without much problem, but avoid using intakes, AFAIK they still kill MAFs. Shiv killed 2 in the process of building the SCC Minnam kit car, and no longer uses them when he tunes other cars. I haven't seen anything about Minnam since that article came out, they either folded or simply have zero internet presence. Most of the guys with turbo EJ25s have either Ludespeed kits (who happens to have temporarily stopped taking orders due to lack of demand :rolleyes: or home-brewed mixed bags of parts.) Personally, I am hoping Ludespeed comes back to the life before I am able to afford a turbo. I have heard much good about them, both products and service. Also, Vishnu might yet put together another EJ25 turbo group buy, but it's doubtful as Shiv has his hands full with all the WRX customers these days.

As far as model year, they all have pros and cons that even them out. The higher compression of later years actually makes them more powerful if properly tuned, while they also lack the frail MAFs.

As far as the STi motor, it's definitely not an EJ25, but may not be an enlargened EJ20 either. Signs point to being a new evolution of one or the other, but no official word, at least not on this site yet.

Anyways, enjoy that car, it's one of the greatest you will ever own for the money. It's really hard to go wrong with it, whatever it is you plan on getting out of it.

I posted this a while back, but didn't catch much of the attention... I have the 2004 buchure already ;)

http://people.ucsc.edu/~virus/Top-MY04WRX.htm

Originally posted by BAN SUVS
As far as the STi motor, it's definitely not an EJ25, but may not be an enlargened EJ20 either. Signs point to being a new evolution of one or the other, but no official word, at least not on this site yet.

Yeah, we have seen the displacement and power, but nobody seems to know the engine code or the lineage of the new motor. Who is that monster's daddy? :)

I've got Shivs old SCC turbo kit. Minnam broke up years ago and from what I remember one of the owners of the old company reopened with a new company name. If your going to turbo your car you will want to look for a quality standalone ECU so you can lose the MAF and tune it better. Not to mention upgrade the injectors and fuel pressure without running way too rich. If you want take a look on www.rs25.com for some other GM6 owners.

Originally posted by N/A
I've got Shivs old SCC turbo kit. Minnam broke up years ago and from what I remember one of the owners of the old company reopened with a new company name. If your going to turbo your car you will want to look for a quality standalone ECU so you can lose the MAF and tune it better. Not to mention upgrade the injectors and fuel pressure without running way too rich. If you want take a look on www.rs25.com for some other GM6 owners.

Yeah, what he said. ;)

I found a company by the name of Forced Air Technologies on the net that provides turbo kits for the 2.5RS - http://forcedairtech.com/IMPREZA-RS-2-5.html

They offer 3 different turbo kits, with one giving a little more than the previous.

Forced Air, Ludespeed, Vishnu (if the kit is finally out) or make it yourself. Those would be the options.

http://www.ludespeed.com/

w00t! Feb. 1st, new orders will be taken for us RS folks.

Now if I could just find a place that sells a DP that works with the Minnam kit and a A/T car. All I want is the DP.

i have a 2.5 rs 2002, now can that have a turbo put onto it?
Like the one from forced air tech, i have seen the kit.
The reason i am asking is a talked to a guy who owns a shop that works on cars rebuilds, repairs and what not, (not as hobby,as a job), he told me that the engine i have is not designed for a turbo, it may be bigger then a wrx's, but it was not designed for the higher compresion ratios that a turbo produces(designed from the factory,engineered). he said that if i did it, the car would go like a bastard for like 50 60k then something would give, burn out, or just blow apart. Is this true.

The real reliability issue with a turbo/blown/nitroused EJ25 is controlling detonation. This motor is pretty good at it as engines go. But yeah, 50-60k with 250-280 hp will take it's toll on the moving parts. Basically, expect to do your basic engine rebuild then, only you would use the opportunity to upgrade many parts- stronger rods, pistons, better valves, etc. Running a turbo motor is all about keeping it tuned and under control. Along with detonation (knock or ping) you also need to keep your exhaust gas temperatures in check. There are people here who can tell you almost everything you need to know to run your turbo right.

As for vendors, I would recommend Ludespeed if you are looking for a stage III kit. Both Ludespeed and Forced Air Tech stage III kits are $4295, but the Ludespeed kit includes a Link ECU, while the Forced Air has a piggy-back "black box" which isn't as tuneable. Both companies seem to have good reputations in this community however.

i have been reading about the different parts, but i would like to see exactly what it all looks like, it sounds kinda dumb, but i always wanted to see like a print of it, uasally if i see all the parts,
like an exploded view. I am just trying to understand the whole aspect of how it runs, and why, once i know this to a tee, then i will fool around with maybe getting one, if the turbo puts such a strain on the engine in the long run, how does the wrx fair, will you get 120000 out of it or will it evetualy come apart, because if that is the case then i might as well go out and get the new srt neon, with the turbo in it..... just kidding. My freind works at a dealership, and him, me and the rest of the guys think that it is the next coffin on wheels.

The WRX EJ20 has oil sprayers for the underside of the pistons to keep them cool as well as thicker cylinder walls, a ECU that was designed for a turbo application, better cams, lower compression ratio pistons, stronger rods and injectors. The stock RS rods aren't strong enough for large amounts of boost and a lower compression forged set of pistons would be a good idea if your going to build up the internals. The stock crank will work fine. I've been told the heads aren't up to huge amounts of boost but I haven't seen any actual flow data to show how much they can flow.

Don't forget AVO, they have been making turbo kits for 30 years,
We have one installed at www.rallitek.com the kit was written about in the Feb 03 isue of Turbo magazine and comes with link engine managment.

AVO have a website?

OK, so i checked out that AVO turbo, and it looks nice to me. What other parts will I need to buy? new lower compression pistons? Cams? bigger injectors? connecting rods? maybe a fuel pump?

thanks for the help

None of that stuff would be required for 6 psi of bost, but I can't think of any good reasons not to buy all that. :D

None of the parts are needed, but would be a good idea to buy. What would be a good order of purchase?

Also i was looking back at the ludespeed stage 3 turbo kit, and i compared it to the AVO kit. The ludespeed kit appears to be a nice deal, and seems to be more specific on the parts it comes with. Does anyone have first hand experience with either kit. Right now im starting to learn towards the ludepseed stage 3 kit.

Rallitek sent me an email after I asked them to list the components of their kit. They basically said, 'it's a Garrett ball bearing turbo, and AVO manufactures the rest in-house.' Not the answer I was looking for. Tom at Ludespeed hasn't gotten back to me yet, but I asked him more specific questions about his components and gave more info about what I wanted to do. Also, I don't think he will be ansering email until March... the order date for RS kits got pushed back til then. :( Still considering whether to ask Forced Air Tech for a parts list. Also, once I get around to actually dropping 5k on the engine, I will bug Shiv at Vishnu for a while too. I imagine there are 10 members among the 4,300+ around here who could come up with the cash for a new run of RS kits.

Don't forget about this one... www.PDMTurbos.com available at our site www.RKPerformance.com. Very nice kit, Jet-Hotted through and through. We can have a kit built for whatever you would like and will soon have an ECU available from the maker of the Torque Chip, IWTU Electronics, designed speciffically those who Turbo the RS. This kit comes with many years of development and versitility to upgrade when you feel like you need some more power! From a racing downpipe to Air to Water I/C (great for the '02s) to bigger turbos to extra injectors, we can pretty much make it happen. We can also get custom Garret kits (pictured on PDM's site, there so pretty!), so email me if you have any questions!

-Ryan
RKPerformance@aol.com

Originally posted by BAN SUVS
Rallitek sent me an email after I asked them to list the components of their kit. They basically said, 'it's a Garrett ball bearing turbo, and AVO manufactures the rest in-house.' Not the answer I was looking for. Tom at Ludespeed hasn't gotten back to me yet,

[Little Rant On:
Do you know what that reply means? A.V.O. the whole kit is AVO except for the Turbo, it's a garret, and the Link of course.
It's not hodge podge, they built the kit from the ground up.
I for one am tired of trying to help people who ask the question who makes the best RS turbo kit. The answer is AVO, does some other guy have a faster RS , probably. This is a kit that only needs to be installed, you don't have to make it work, it will work. It's 4,400.00 dollars that seems to be most peoples problem. If you want quality parts from a company that's been turbocharging cars for 30 years your going to pay for it. I'd love to see more of these on the road but apparently the idea of getting a solid kit for a lot of money is less attractive then getting a kit thats not going to work for cheap .
Rant Off]

Seriously the kit is nice, Sean is aknowledgable.
He gets a ton af kids asking about the kit, rewrite him, tell him your serious and ask him your detailed questions, I'm sure you'll receive a prompt reply.
Read these links for an idea about AVO
http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0201tur_werks/index.html

http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0209tur_wrx/

www.avoturboworld.com

My e-mail to Rallitek-

> Would it be possible for me to get a detailed list of the components
> used in the kit? It is only described in general terms on the
> website, and I'd like to know exactly what brands and models each of
> the major components are. Thanks in advance! Kevin

response from Sean-

Kevin ,
The general description lists all parts. The kit uses Link ecu and all
components are manufactured by AVO. THe turbo bearing is bought from Garrett.
The intercooler/turbo/pipes/fittings/blow off valve..... all built by AVO in
Australia. I hope that has helped.

As you can see I did ask a specific question. I was hoping to be told that model X blow-off valve from Company A, model Y turbo with XX trim, model Z intercooler sized 00x00x0 from Company B, etc. I was already convinced that the kit was high-quality, and well sorted out by R&D. I also know that I am knowledgeable enough about motors, and dumb enough to want to go faster, that 6 psi won't be enough for long. I intend to run ~10 psi, and therefore I wanted to know what exact capabilities each component of each kit has so I know what needs to be replaced or upgraded when I reach that point. Because of that, Ludespeed has a head start on receiving my hard-earned $4,500 because Tom is already offering a 9.6 psi wastegate spring which I presume he has tested and researched with his kits to some degree. Of course, AVO and PDM could do the same. I'm simply not pleased with the fact my question wasn't given enough thought to be answered properly the first time. Not only was the content of his reply already available on their website, I myself stated this in my e-mail. Also, I am still not ruling them out, they may indeed make the best kit for my intentions. But it's the other guys' turn to convince me first.

Check with I-Speed, they do installs on turbo kits in the older RSs. They can tell you what is require and how much you will be spending on the project.

Originally posted by ImprezaRSDriver
Check with I-Speed, they do installs on turbo kits in the older RSs. They can tell you what is require and how much you will be spending on the project.

Are they offering kits now? I knew they did installs, but I was planning on doing it myself and then going to Bill for fine-tuning. Much goodness from them, according to their 10 psi dyno chart!

They do NOT offer kits, but they will do a really good install. But they can tell you what you are looking at spending for a RS-T

Originally posted by BAN SUVS
My e-mail to Rallitek-

> Would it be possible for me to get a detailed list of the components
> used in the kit? It is only described in general terms on the
> website, and I'd like to know exactly what brands and models each of
> the major components are. Thanks in advance! Kevin

response from Sean-

Kevin ,
The general description lists all parts. The kit uses Link ecu and all
components are manufactured by AVO. THe turbo bearing is bought from Garrett.
The intercooler/turbo/pipes/fittings/blow off valve..... all built by AVO in
Australia. I hope that has helped.

As you can see I did ask a specific question. I was hoping to be told that model X blow-off valve from Company A, model Y turbo with XX trim, model Z intercooler sized 00x00x0 from Company B, etc. I was already convinced that the kit was high-quality, and well sorted out by R&D. I also know that I am knowledgeable enough about motors, and dumb enough to want to go faster, that 6 psi won't be enough for long. I intend to run ~10 psi, and therefore I wanted to know what exact capabilities each component of each kit has so I know what needs to be replaced or upgraded when I reach that point. Because of that, Ludespeed has a head start on receiving my hard-earned $4,500 because Tom is already offering a 9.6 psi wastegate spring which I presume he has tested and researched with his kits to some degree. Of course, AVO and PDM could do the same. I'm simply not pleased with the fact my question wasn't given enough thought to be answered properly the first time. Not only was the content of his reply already available on their website, I myself stated this in my e-mail. Also, I am still not ruling them out, they may indeed make the best kit for my intentions. But it's the other guys' turn to convince me first.

What kind of specifics do you want? It's a Garrett 320 hp water cooled ball bearing turbo, AVO top mount bar and plate intercooler, AVO sequential blow off valve, AVO stainless steel up pipe, AVO stainless steel downpipe with a high flow catalytic converter, LINK pre-programmed engine management electronics, stainless braided oil lines, AVO power air filter and intake pipe, hood scoop ducting, High quality silicone and rubber hoses and fittings and instructions. Thats what's on the website.

The kit will support 6 psi and AVO makes the kit to run all day every day.
If you want 10 psi then you will have to do upgraded fuel pump, injectors and maybe even some internals would be in order, but if your going to run 10 you might as well run 14. Cobb sells internals.
The AVO kit will run up to 18 psi with that Turbo, you just need to make sure the engine has new LINK programing and enough full to avoid detonation, and you'll need a new transmission setup.
The AVO puts 212 HP to the wheels at 6psi. You did not mention in your letter that you wanted more than what AVO offers. The kit is a good starting point for thosehigher boost levels, but then you will be tuning and designing it yourself and that defeats the purpose of buying a kit that is NOT going to blow up your engine.
Good luck, if you want to talk about specifics, call me at my number on the website . Next time ask the right questions. Your questions were the equvalant of asking who makes Chevy parts. :P

Originally posted by RalliTeK
What kind of specifics do you want?

Which Garrett turbo? What compressor sizing? Etc. What size is the intercooler? Will it fit under my generic strut brace? Other strut braces you know of? Is it sufficient for higher boost levels? Does the kit have a divorced or integrated wastegate? Do I have to get the highflow cat or can I keep the stock (meaning do your down pipes and cat connect the exact same way as stock)? Are you including plugs/ wires? If so, which ones? Will your up-pipe work with aftermarket headers, particularly TWE? At 6psi, what is stock injector duty cycle at redline? 8 psi? 10? 14? How much larger should I run at 10 psi? Do you include a fuel pump and return line mod with the kit in question? Is the air filter a foam type or K&N/AMSOIL type? Is it drawing air from the fender or next to the head? Manual or electronic boost controller, or is it integrated with the Link? Which LINK are you including (as I understand it there are 3 different ECUs from them)? Are you including the necessary cable to laptop-tune it? Do you offer tuning support beyond the pre-supplied map (which is much appreciated)?

Those are my specific component questions. Of course some if this info may not be easily posted on a message board, and some of it may even be proprietary and you don't want to publicize it at all, which would be understandable. But I am not the typical kid tuner who just wants to know how much boost, peak horsepower, and how loud the blow-off valve is, and I felt as though I was treated as such. Your presence in this thread has done much to mitigate that, however. Thanks for showing up to defend your honor. ;)


If you want 10 psi then you will have to do upgraded fuel pump, injectors and maybe even some internals would be in order, but if your going to run 10 you might as well run 14.

Yes, I know. I am obsessive/compulsive about controlling A/F and knock in a boosted motor. But I say 10 psi because I believe that is the max I can run, with the way I drive, without upgrading internals or drivetrain. I can't afford either and am not yet willing to do those. So 10 it is, with a better clutch and proper mechanical empathy for my less-than-ideal transmission. With the 91-octane hamster pee I will be running, I firmly believe that 250 wheel hp can safely be had at that level of tune. If not, I'm wrong, which leads me to this-


The kit is a good starting point for those higher boost levels, but then you will be tuning and designing it yourself and that defeats the purpose of buying a kit that is NOT going to blow up your engine.

To be brutally honest, if I wanted someone else to tell me precisely what my turbo motor should be comprised of, I'd save myself a lot of time, effort, and probably money by just getting a WRX. But that's not my goal- I want a very specific, individual car. I am aiming for a car that has minimal boost @ 3000 rpm to save gas mileage, but doesn't lag above that. Piece of cake, right? :p I know that your kit, among others on a short list of maybe 3-5, is very high quality, well sorted, and as reliable as any OEM turbo engine. And, in order to ensure this, each of you markets low-boost, mildly tuned, very safe engines. Any of these kits are a good starting point for my project- hence my interest. However, I am confident enough in my abilities, and yours, that I believe I can push your kit a little harder, but also humble enough to know it will be my fault, not yours, if I break it. Besides, I'm turbocharging a car that didn't have one when I bought it- I feel obligated to break something in the process. ;) I wouldn't toss my 6 psi spring back in and start flaming you on message boards afterwards for not giving me free repairs.


Next time ask the right questions. Your questions were the equvalant of asking who makes Chevy parts.

I still think my questions were sufficient enough to warrant a more complete answer than I was initially given. Asking for individual component lists should have, at the least, prompted you to ask me why I was interested instead of pointing me to the website. However, since we're discussing it here and now, and it's only 3 days later, I am satisfied with the response. I was never implying that your service was BAD, just that in the incredibly competitive world of the RS-T, I felt as if I were not important enough to be worth the effort to satisfy. All's well that ends well though. This is the part where you dazzle us all with a show of engineering prowess that will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the superiority of AVO. ;)

BanSUV, I called Sean with a list of your questions, and they are good ones, here's the skinny,
It's a Garret T-28 same as in the Sylvia.
Compressor sizing he didn't know off the top of his head, I'm sure if we look up the specs for the T-28 that will tell you .
The intercooler is fairly large Sean is going to measure it when he gets home this afternoon. You can see a picture of how it sits at
http://www.rallitek.com/featuredcar.html
As you can see from the picture, only the Syms style strut brace will fit. It has a short pod air intake with K&N style filter.
The kit comes with a highflow cat in the DP and will bolt to the factory flange points at the uppipe and end of the downpipe. So if your hedder sits in the factory flange position it will work.
Duty cycle is 94% with the factory injectors. We do not have figures for higher boost levels. Sean tried to explain some electronic magic the Link does with the Injectors, you'll have to ask him about that. The tubo has an internal wastegate that is controlled by the wastegate actuator itself, no electronic boost control, just 6psi when you want it, which is basically 2300 rpm It can be adjusted between aprox 4-7 psi mechanically. There is no fuel pump, because at the kit's parameters one is not needed. The Link is the Link Plus model. It is pre-mapped and we will offer support with further maps, our dyno is in Portland so you might want a link tuner nearer to you to accomodate your pursuit of more power!. It does not come with the plug in tuner control and cable.

Hope this helps, I'll edit later with the intercooler dimensions.

Hers some link info. From Link website.
http://www.link-electro.co.nz/lem_link_plus.html

Sean would love to help you make a good kit even better, the garret is rated at 320 hp it should be able to get you to 250whp you only need 40 more!

sean took me for a ride in his car a few days ago...DAMN!! he has the avo kit in and a couple extras (upgraded clutch and turbo timer) that you will want and maybe need if you drive hard on a regular basis. definately a great setup and worth the money. the strut brace was made by GP motorsports(?) meaning you dont have to source a syms bar to have one that fits. IMO, its a great kit for someone who wants boost but, reliability for a daily driver.
you may wonder about speed so, in the time it took to reach 90 my rs with a weapon R intake would MAYBE have made 55 on my best run.
hope this answers a few questions

Im starting to give considerable attention to thinking about getting a job to turbo my 02' RS. I was wonder what I am going to be looking at to spend on internals of the engine to make it very reliable. I have been known to drive my cars hard and put anywhere from 30-35k miles on my car in a single year. I want a turbo system that will not screw up or toast my engine down the road from the compressions and all. To do a proper engine build of the engine is this looking at running me up to $10,000 ? I am a college student and yeah I was able to pull 10 grand out of me arse last time I checked though. Would it be much easier and reliable for the money to get my car up to 250-280ish for the money instead of doing a turbo with engine rebuild ? Thanks for the help or any information anyone has available.

PM Hayscoob. He turbocharged his RS, blew it up, built it, and returboed it.

Pick up a spare motor as a plan B for if/when yours blows you can put in the spare and take your time rebuilding the orignal motor. Just don't turbo the spare cause you won't have a backup.

I'm currently in the process of blowing my motor up. The compresssion is 110 for cylinders 2 and 4, and 180 for cylinders 1 and 3. Makes for a lumpy idle and funky exhaust smell. I used a piggyback fuel computer and boost controller and ran it for about 10,000 miles.....TOAST...:mad:

I really wish I would have spent the extra few grand putting a built ej22t motor and standalone engine management in. Lesson learned.

It seems prudent to go as cheap as possible now, but it's worth it to do it right the first time. I only hope everyone here can read this and learn from my mistake.

Imprezzaless for the next 8 months,

7

So i take it the top mount on the AVO won't fit with a Cusco OS type strut brace even though it bends to the firewall? Anybody offering a FMIC for GC8 style that isn't one off?

Is AVO Going to offer any other stages or upgrades for people who desire more then the 6psi kit offers?

350 is nice but with an eventual power goal of at least 450 i would like to not have to shell out for a kit and then have to upgrade half the hard turbo parts to accomodate AFTER a costly engine and tranny build just to reach loftier goals...

-DE


Anybody working on 2.5XT or 04STi engine swaps?!?!?!? This seems like the most logical choice but nobody is talking or trying it?

ok i am extremely new to this so waht type of engine do i have? i have an 04 2.5 rs.

You have an EJ251, the same as other RS' from 2000-now. It is SOHC and uses a MAP sensor.

im not claiming to be knowledgable about this but i though i read that pushing injectors to 94% duty cycle was bad/dangerous. do most kits require you to upgrade injectors and fuel pump?

Cobb Tuning has some badass engine internal parts for the 2.5 RS (98-04) .

<www.cobbtunning.com/impreza/>

Originally posted by mr. m
im not claiming to be knowledgable about this but i though i read that pushing injectors to 94% duty cycle was bad/dangerous. do most kits require you to upgrade injectors and fuel pump?

Absolutely. For low boost applications, stock WRX injectors will suffice. For over 275 crank horsepower goals, STi injectors are the better choice.

I'm new to this discussion, but I'm looking at getting a 98 or 99 2.5 RS and possibly turboing it. I am almost 18, NO I am not your average F&F teenager. I want a very modest boost so I don't blow the thing up during my 1st semester at college. I'd like to run 14.5 -14.0 in the 1/4, is this possible and which kit will suit my purposes best?

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/turbospec_subaru.html

how this turbo kit? has any one heard of this kit?:confused:
good or bad?

It's been discussed here before. Basically it sucks.

from what i have read if your goingn to turbo your 2.5 ludespeed is the way to go. I was going to buy a ludespeed turbo kit. But then i decided to keep it NA.

I agree, but unfortunately Ludespeed is no longer producing Subaru kits. All that's left is FAT and AVO, and there are often used Vishnu and Ludespeed kits available.

That really sucks. Has there been any talk about them coming back?

Nope. :(

One thing your missing- the block- I don't know about RS's but many Normally asperated 2.2's have an open deck block. Will that hold to 6psi, yeah, but if you want to go much above that you will either need a new block, or to have your block closed/semi-closed. That pretty much involves having a plate welded into the water jackets in the top of the block to give it more strength(Paeco has these, as well as many other nice bits for subarus, ask carl for a catalog it's way better than the website). Also the strength of the heads is more the issue than the airflow most times. Your car has higher compression ratios than a turbo car, which means by running a turbo you will auctially end up with higher compression than a normal turbo car, your heads will -probibaly- be able to flow the air if you tune them, but the compression could still crack the heads. Now I am under the impression that WRX heads will bolt on the 2.5 and they are stronger than the N/A heads, that also may be a way to go.

Just some things to think about.....

hi I was thinking about doing that but it is 4g's for an average turbo and a japanese spec ej20 is 2 1/2 g's and seeing as you will destroy the enjin any way it would be cheeper to get the whole thing all at once. a j spec ej20 has stoke 280 hourse. you should check out www.finelineimports.net they doing my swap. good luck

I am running a wrx turbo on my rs and it is the most beautiful thing in the world. Full spool at 2500 rpm. still have a crapload of torque. of course mine was a custom kit. I used the 92 or 93 turbo legacy cross member. wrx turbo, flanges off of upipe and downpipe. and wrx manifold. and i have a vortech 8 to 1 fmu. a missing link to block the map from seeing boost. i changed the stock leaky headgaskets from .040 thick to .055 thick to drop compression a bit. in the tank i have a wlbro 255 lph. car runs beautifully. the only bad thing is i chunked my transmission last night, the lucky 2nd gear. If your going to turbo it be ready to drop some ra gears or some other option for transmission in. Got about 20,000 out of transmission with turbo before it took a crap. goodluck. Derek

If you're gonna run an RS-T, that's the right way to go about it mechanically. When you've got the transmission replaced, I would look into getting a good standalone like a Hydra or Haltech. Good luck.

whats the most boost you can run through a car with stock cams and which kit is gonna help me get there. further is there a way to increase what the stock cams can take with mods that arnt that indepth

its a 99 rs sorry, that might be important der

i was planning on doing a unichip and i was told it would work so i bought one for 25 bucks used. i talked to fis and they said it wouldnt work, so i keep an eye on my a/f gauge to make sure that i am not running lean, in fact i am a lil rich right now. when i have the money after this tranny rebuild im building the motor pistons, crank, cams, springs, all the good stuff trying to put like 400 down. when i do that im gonna look at a link or haltek or something.

sams by the way your 99 rs would turbo just as easy as mine but u have a mass air flow sensor and i have a map sensor. not sure how to go about that. by the way the max on the motor is 7 psi. i run 7-10 psi depending on the gear due to the headgaskets i bought giving a little leanency, even if she blows ill just build her bigger and better than before. goodluck to all of those who dream of a turbo rs, its a beautiful thing lots of highway with crap loads of low end torque.
Derek

from the sounds of previous posts, turboing an RS is either risky, or costly. I have a 01 RS and was wondering what to do to make it faster, other than blowing it up in 10000 ks with a turbo kit.

what would be the best cost effective way of adding speed without turbo??

not advanced in the tuning world.

The only significant power increase without a turbo comes from cams and a higher redine, and doing those requires pulling the motor, and engine management for the redline and proper tuning. It's not a whole lot cheaper. The cheapest way to make your RS fast is to trade it for a wRX.

any kit for the 2005 2.5 rs?

Forced Air Tech and AVO. That's it at the moment.

Anyone know about the compatability of using dual cam heads from a WRX?. Also is there any design difference between the RS block and the STI block besides the componants?

I was thinking of using a fully built 2.5 shortblock (probably 9:1) with wrx heads, custom cams, and start off with a stock wrx exhaust, turbo, intercooler etc..

Any feedback?

new question....

1) what kinda compatability issues will i run into if i use a turbo kit on my 1.8 that was specifically designed for the 2.5 ( i.e. AVO )

2) what boost level should i run with the stock compression ratio? ( since its 10:1, i believe, idont think anything higher than 7 psi will break anything..

3) i have 90,000 miles... anything i should do before installation of a turbo kit?

1) Nothing major provided you get the one for your EM style, i.e MAF vs. MAP. I would recommend getting an RS hood and springing for a kit with a topmount.

2) The lowest boost you can run on the wastegate of the turbo you are getting.

3) Make sure every component of your fuel and ignition systems is in tip-top shape, and start saving for the inevitable meltdown. Might take 60-80,000 miles, but it's definitely going to break sometime with a turbo kit.

will the 2.0L WRX exhaust manifold bolt up directly to our 2.5L blocks?

the bolt pattern is the same, but I'm not sure if the spacing works out. I never got around to building my uber-RS-T motor. :(

gc8 in two door is in japan homey its the first breed ver3,buntas ride,as for turbo been there done that and waste money,do the swap i wish i did that,usdm wrx or ver8,faster and can boost higher,and with a two door its fast i road in one,it feels like an evolution.

gc8 in two door is in japan homey

2 door is still a GM, not a GC, regardless of where it's sold. Homey.

delete

2 questions: Can u run the stock AVO setup on 6psi and drive responsibly and keep your engine in good nic?

And if you install the setup from AVO yourself does it need to be Dynoe'd/Tuned if wanting 6psi?

Thanx

At 6 psi you should be okay with just the RRFPR and SAFC.

Sorry to be a nub but what are RRFPR and SAFC?

Rising rate fuel pressure regulator, and SAFC is a fuel controller. Most kits come with these or a full ECU replacement.

try www.rallitek.com they seem to be creating tons of performance parts for the impreza 2.5i including turbo kits and air intakes.

BAN SUVS,

Man you've been owning this thread for about three years, eh? :D

=S2=

Somebody had to do it, but why they let the n00b handle it is beyond me. :p

HA!!

Looks like the cost on that Avo kit has come down some:

http://www.avoturboworld.com/avoshop/product_info.php?cPath=1_22_197_198&products_id=100

Well, at least if it used to be $4k anyway.

Still.... that much money will buy you an engine swap too, nearly. If you do it with friends; it wouldn't include labor costs. I'd still be nervous to turbo the stock block.

=S2=

Personally, I've never really bene impressed with the AVO kit all that much. Always struck me as a bunch of parts that "fit" instead of a cohesively engineered solution. As for the stock block, I'd be willing to boost on it, I'd just grow unsatisfied rapidly with the performance ceiling at 6 psi.

Yeah. Well folks in here said the Avo kit was the best of the bunch.... though that was at the time. Three years does a lot for the aftermarket.

I'd personally take an EJ255 from the Forester XT or '06 WRX, slap EL headers, an HFC and a Prodrive catback on, probably swap the transmission too, stage 1 or 2 clutch, and call it a day. :)

That's the hard way. :p STi/FXT/LGT/WRX 2.5 short block under stock heads, switch to WRX-style intake mani, standard WRX bolt-ons, and good EM like a Hydra is all you need to make an STi-beating RS-T.

So basically RS heads are the same? Or no?

I know squat about turbo. :)

EM would work, but couldn't you just rig up the OE WRX/FXT/whatever harness? Or is that the "hard" part? I guess that's subjective... Most people find the wiring to be the worst, others the mechanicals. For me it'd be the wiring.

I'm more of a no-EM kind of guy I think. Don't like to overcomplicate with all of that. If I stay N/A, I'll be getting EL headers to go with my HFC and catback, and an i-Speed SRS-20 ECU reflash. Ought to put me in the 190chp range I think....... Not really sure. Whatever it'd be, it'd be nice.

RS heads are completely different, but by using a standalone you save incredible amounts of hassle by not having to change any wiring. Wiring is by far the most difficult part of any NA->turbo conversion, if it has to be done. If you change the short block out, then you have to either have a standalone type EM, or convert all the wiring so the turbo engine ECU can be used.

The "cleanest" way to get turbo power is to do a 100% swap like most shops advertise, but the easiest way is with a Hydra or link combined with the path of least resistance with the mechanicals to get the power you want. For me, that list would go like this:

Hydra Nemesis
EJ257 short block
WRX intake mani, TB
STi topmount
turbo crossmember
WRX-type header, UP, TBE
bolt-on turbo (something in a GT30 would work for me!)
WRX compatible fuel rails and injectors (may be the only thing that requires rewiring) and larger fuel pump
WRX-type upper coolant reservoir
WRX-type steering rack and lines (RS line are too close to WRX uppipe)
bigger radiator
probably a couple detail things I've left out

It's definitely not the cheapest way, but if you want more power than a stock block car can give, it's the easiest since you don't have to tear apart your car to swap wiring, or even worse, try to splice hanresses all over the place.

Right. That turbo kit was $3500ish... most WRX swaps run $5-6K, or $9-12K for an STi swap. Which would be nice, but overcomplicated for me. I'm not sure what all the stuff you've mentioned, plus materials, time, etc. would come to. Hmm.

I'm very likely not going to turbo anytime soon though, if I ever do at all. Mid-powered N/A may do me well, until I can afford something like a newer Legacy GT. The N/A mods I mentioned would make my car very, very nice for what I need. :)

Heh, yeah, thats true. The cheapeast AND easiest way to turbo Subaru power is to just go buy a turbo Subaru. ;) But, that's not always what it's about.

Depending on how patient you were with getting deals and willingness to use secondhand parts, that stuff would run $4-6k, but could all be done in a garage in a single weekend.

Yeah but for that much money, Andrewtech Automotive in MD or someplace similar could do an EJ20 swap. I prefer the EJ255, but it's newer and costs more.

By the time I was ready though.... :)

As much as I'd learn doing it, no sense bloodying my knuckles for the same price I can pay a pro to do. Plus I'd need to buy a lift and probably extra tools!

After watching dozens of friends go down the mod path with an EJ20, I wouldn't take one for free.

Okay, yes I would, but only for the free wiring swap. The motor itself would go away soon after. :p

I hate the loss of low-end torque, but it is still 227hp. Which beats 165hp. By a nice margin. :)

Plus, a 2.5" catback adds a huge lump of power to it. Which is really all I'd need, for starters.

... for starters.

That's what they all say. then, $5000 later, they buy STis instead. :p

HA!

Well, look at it this way. Six years on, I have a car with an STi suspension, lots of other things, but the engine's stock other than a K&N, PDM intake, and a cobbled-together catback that sounds like arse.

It's a slow process with me. 227hp plus the 25 or whatever that the catback gets you, yeah, that'd do me for a loooong time.


:)

Catbacks get nothing on an EJ20, it's the downpipe that steals all the power.

and I understand, it's a path I once walked pretty far down. ;) I'd take my RS the way I had it planned over any STi.

Ah okay, maybe a full exhaust then. One of 'em gave you a lot of power. (With the turbo EJs, anyway.)

If I were loaded, I'd buy a new one. The newer cars are better in just about every way, except for maybe looks and weight. but get into a debate with me over it, I'll sacrifice the weight thing in a heartbeat, for all the structural improvements and the better interior.

But since I'm NOT loaded..... (yet) .... :)


For $1500 I could probably complete my exhaust, and get an SRS-20 ECU reflash from i-Speed. Yep that'd do it.

Problem is I want to swap out my STi suspension, which now has 100K miles on it, with the Prodrive WR set, which is $1400. :D Plus Group N tops.

Though I am trading, even Steven, with someone for P1 springs this year. I just like the way the car sits on P1s much better, plus the progressive action vs. linear.



Now we're wayyy off topic.

=S2=
(Thread wh0r3.)

Now we're wayyy off topic.

=S2=
(Thread wh0r3.)

I noticed this about 10 posts back, but screw it, who cares. :D

:lol:


HA! :)


My exhaust is what's upsetting me, lately. Tried to go the custom route to save money, which it didn't. But I seriously don't want to clutter up this thread TOO much. You can PM me if you want to hear about that clusterf&$%.

Hey BAN SUVS.

You seem pretty knowledgable about turbos on the NA stuff. I have a 97 Impreza L with a 2.2l engine. I am thinking about a turbo kit on it. I am currently doing some research. Maybe you can enlighten me.

I guess here are a few questions to start me off:

1. Which kit would you recommend?
2. What are the pro's and con's of turboing an EJ22, opposed to an EJ18 or EJ25?
3. I am a total noob, but I thought I should probably ask this anyways. Do I absolutely need a hood scoop in order to effective use a tmic with a turbo kit on an Impreza L?

Thanks.

Talk to RalliTek about a kit. They will probably ecommend an AVO kit I think, and they have a piggyback EM solution that works alraight. Turboing the EJ22 is the same as an EJ18 or EJ25 basically, you just get a different power band. You will definitely need a hood with a scoop, or your intercooler becomes an interheater. ;)

Thanks BANSUVS. I'll take a look into it.

I just turboed my n/a 2.2 liter...actually its been turbod for 2 months now...constantly beating on it, 7.5 psi. NO managment, top mount intercooler, legacy turbo vf11, custom up pipe from borla headers, ran a 14.8 on my g-tech @ 93 mph...pretty good considering n/a i ran 16.3 constistantly at the strip

I'm runnin an ej251 (MY01 CDN 2.5RS)

couple questions:

1) been seriously considering the avo kit because of the 'ease of installation' (as it comes with..'everything I need') and it seems reputable. however numbers seem a bit lower than I expected (posted 212whp, possible 265). now I really don't know much about turbos, but would it be possible (in the future) to simply replace the 'garrett water-cooled' turbo with a different one?

2) I know there are other kits out there, but are they tried, tested and true? even better than the avo kit?

Hey. 212 wheel horse power is a little different than the horse power at the crank. The WRX make something like 225-230 at the crank. I am not any type of expert. I think that a stock WRX makes 190 hp at the wheels or something. I am not quite sure. BAN SUVS is a little better with these things. Anyways... yeah...

I would just say do a swap. You are going to pay about $4000 US for a turbo kit, you might as well do a swap. I guess it really depends on who does it. I've heard a lot about this and people say that by turbocharging your NA, you run the risk of blowing your engine. I've heard that if you stay below 6-8 psi of boost, you should be okay. It varies.

The AVO kit works, and it makes the car faster than stock... but a proper EJ20/EJ257 swap will always be faster and more reliable, and hav ea higher performance ceiling. The downside is that it's more expensive.

forgot to mention: my car's AT. :(

correct me if I'm wrong, but the ej257 is the new wrx sti engine, right?
are there other things to consider for the swap like ecu? tranny? (like I mentioned, I'm no expert at this).

The transmission doesn't affect putting a turbo kit on. It does complicate getting a swap though, since your stock ECU is needed for the transmission to work properly. If you did a complete swap, you would need a manual transmission with it, but you could turbo your car with the 4EAT still in it.

From my understanding properly done EJ257 swap comes with the factory computer for that type of engine (thats my understanding atleast)

And yes, the EJ257 is the one the STI's have been using. while the EJ253 is whats in the NA line (2.5 rs and 2.5 i) and i believe the 06 WRX

EJ25D is the Phase 1 2.5, and EJ251 is the Phase 2. EJ253 is the 2.5i motor. EJ257 is the STi shortblock, and I'm not sure what the '06+ non-STi block is, but I know it's different.

now I'm leanin towards putting small n/a mods and save up for the ej257 ftw.

hmm..right now, would a '06 sti exhaust do anything for me? at least free up flow?

It wouldn't bolt up, and no catback is going to affect power significantly if you have a stock header and cat.

I think someone brought up on a forum somewhere that they had some trouble fitting a downpipe from the AVO kit due to clearance with the automatic transmission. Maybe it was another kit, but it'd be good to check first, before you make any decisions.

yea..I wrote into rallitek and mentioned that my car's AT but he didn't make any notions about it. I sure hope it doesn't affect the kit (or any other for that matter).

hypothetically speaking, if I were to go with the avo kit and to prep for it, which headers and cat backs are recommended?

oh..this might be a dumb question, but are turbo backs systems both cat and exhaust directly bolted from the downpipe?

I am considering turboing my 2.5, and read up on the all the issues.
So the only thing I am wondering if anybody has intalled the AVO turbo and has there engine blow up?
Does this site allow to setup a Poll?

Your engine is going to blow up from normal use...

But seeing as the turbo would be used for speed and nothing really else, it would be smart to get some new injectors and internals before you stick that bad boy turbo in your engine bay.

People that want to turbo their RS should just buy a WRX because at the end you will have spent a ton of money and ended up with a car capable of producing less power. If you want to have a RS turbo just put a STi swap and call it a day. haha My two cents

The only arguement on that one is if you want a more personally touch with your car, but as far as whats cheaper and more effective your completely correct. Tho I think what i'll be doing in the end (a few years away) is replace mine with a racing block, instead of a sti swap

Quick story; Last year I used to fill my Corvette with 94 octane by sunoco. Recently, they did away with 94 octane. Turbo cars need to run on 91-93 octane. I would not rule out 93 octane dissapearing in the near future. My 2.5 runs great on 87 octane gas. Moral of the story is if you already own a 2.5i, forget the turbo and do every mod possible, intake, pulley, weight, to make the car perform well on cheap gas. Wouldn't it be great to have a car that can almost perform as well as a Wrx and save you a 50 bucks a week in gas in addition to being more reliable? If you still want a turbo, go buy a wrx.

I'm looking at also going e85, living in the midwest its priced very well

Quick story; Last year I used to fill my Corvette with 94 octane by sunoco. Recently, they did away with 94 octane. Turbo cars need to run on 91-93 octane. I would not rule out 93 octane dissapearing in the near future. My 2.5 runs great on 87 octane gas. Moral of the story is if you already own a 2.5i, forget the turbo and do every mod possible, intake, pulley, weight, to make the car perform well on cheap gas. Wouldn't it be great to have a car that can almost perform as well as a Wrx and save you a 50 bucks a week in gas in addition to being more reliable?

Putting a turbo on an RS or 2.5i has nothing to do with money. It's smiles per gallon that people are after. ;)

If you still want a turbo, go buy a wrx.

This is certainly the easy way, but some of us are hard headed!

Putting a turbo on an RS or 2.5i has nothing to do with money. It's smiles per gallon that people are after. ;)



This is certainly the easy way, but some of us are hard headed!


and the N/A's (RS/2.5i) have cheaper insurance rates compared to WRX/STi's :P

+1 for the insurance rates

On Rallitek's site it says the AVO Turbo is safe up to 6 PSI. Does this mean that the 2.5i's stock internals can only handle this turbo until 6 PSI?

If that's the case, it doesn't seem too difficult to reach more boost by doing some internal work, and maybe upgrading the clutch (on MT). Well, I guess you'd have to also get a fuel control system for delivery adjustments, boost controller, and turbo timer, then run an ECU adjustment/tuning (I'm guessing you could do this with the PP6), but I'm not sure what else.

How much power do you think the stock drivetain is good up until as well?

BTW, I'm specifically referring to the '07 2.5i.

funny i love how people say putting a turbo on these cars requires a timer, fuel pump, etc etc etc...yet those with WRX's and STi's end up putting those on their car anyway when they upgrade the turbo...so all we did was save on insurance and cost of the car...just my $.02

but i had a question...if you were to build up the 2.5i engine...could you do the internal work needed but use DOHC heads? or will the 2.5i engine since it is SOHC only take SOHC heads?

Snowdrift, I'm assumeing that you should be safe to ATLEAST the HP of the WRX since its the same tranny, tho the fudge factor after that i don't know.

Zavier, I'm curious about the same thing as well

yea cause a semi closed vs open deck is not that big a deal if you aren't trying to pass 300hp...esp if you have all forged internals...but the DOHC heads are stronger then the SOHC heads we have...so...

Zavier: Yeah, but thing is you can pay for all those items (timer, fuel pump, etc.) over time, and in the mean time, at least you have a car. I like the idea of being able to build it up over time, and make it more customized. I dunno about you, but I'll take a lot of pride in being able to all this work myself, and it also gives you something to always look forward to. You don't get bored of your car as fast.

Plus, look it it this way, you can achieve the same power of the WRX, with still keeping the 2.5i stock. All you do is slap on the Turbo, and do very little tuning if that (Which is what the WRX has). You'll basically only start having to add all the electronic/controls at around the same point that a WRX owner would have to do the same thing.

RewSupul: Thanks for the input.

I'm definitely lookin forward to finally gettin one of these cars. I can't wait.

Putting a turbo on your NA Subaru is not the smart, easy, reliable or cheap way to make a faster Subaru. But it can be more fun and more rewarding.

Very well put BAN SUVS.

I almost forgot to add:
One thing I like about putting on an aftermarket turbo on the 2.5 N/A, is the control over it. When I want to just drive around town, and have better gas mileage, I can turn the boost down.

I guess you could also do it with a WRX with some work, but I'm not sure what effect turning the boost down on a Low Compression engine would do in the instance of daily driving and gas mileage.

o i don't really plan on building my engine up for a turbo lol...i wanna do a fully built NA motor...but that might eventually change...

as it looks to build up for an NA requires all the parts for a turbo except instead of using low comp. pistons you use high comp...so i figure if i get tired of the NA build i can just change the pistons and some other ish and slap a turbo on then...

In my head though... wouldnt you want to just use your NA engine as is until it breaks down and just do an engine swap for the Sti engine? I am new to subarus and come from the Eclipse 4g63 engines and thats how we would do it for in the long run it would save alot of money and time rather then turboing a NA setup.

Am i wrong? *seeking advice ....* My route was just to save for an sti swap... am i really better off turboing or SOHC?

No, if you have the means, you are much better off doing a proper swap. It will be faster, more reliable, and probably more economical in the long run.

Not to change the topic, but while we're discussing the NA 2.5, does anyone have a diagram of this engine?
I was just curious how the SOHC works the Valves on this Boxer Engine.
I've looked around but have yet to find a reasonable diagram of this. Plenty of V's and Inlines, but no boxer diagram. Thanks.

The boxer configuration doesn't affect the way the valvetrain works. The SOHC camshafts just have twice as many lobes as DOHC camshafts to operate both sets of valves is all. Otherwise, jsut look at a SOHC inline 4 and pretend it's an inline2... then you will see pretty much exactly how it works. :)

I like the idea of an engine swap after the NA wears out or when I get the car paid off. How much would it cost for the engine itself and also about how much for the total cost of the swap (including engine, labor, any additional parts, etc...) What is a ballpark total figure if switching to a WRX engine (not STi)?

Ballpark is $7-10k, depending on age/type/mileage of the engine or drivetrain you choose and what services you add in during the swap.

7-10K$,!!?!!? Well, there goes that idea then. That's almost half the price of a new car. May as well just get my use out of this one, get it paid off, and look at a WRX next time around (if I hadn't been upside down in equity, I would have gotten the WRX)...as long as they are not still using anything similar to the 08 body style in the furture when I go to buy again (puke...wharfff...splat...someone hold my hair back). I don't want to own a mazda/focus half breed...lol. Maybe they'll have an AWD mustang by then???

7-10K$,!!?!!? Well, there goes that idea then. That's almost half the price of a new car. May as well just get my use out of this one, get it paid off, and look at a WRX next time around (if I hadn't been upside down in equity, I would have gotten the WRX)...as long as they are not still using anything similar to the 08 body style in the furture when I go to buy again (puke...wharfff...splat...someone hold my hair back). I don't want to own a mazda/focus half breed...lol. Maybe they'll have an AWD mustang by then???

Pull your heads off and slap them on an STi shortblock.

Higher cam lift+2.5 power=sexy turbo motor... I've seen guys make a good 260 outta it.. (use stock intake manifold/wiring w/ piggy back)


Shouldn't cost half as much as doing a full swap...