I do not have the problem with my STI but Flying Dutchman said he thinks that the power level of his STI is lower after his 3000 mile oil change. I Changed my oil at 1000 miles and then at 3000 miles. My engine feels just as stong as ever.

Has anyone else had this problem?

Blue

could be the oil level is too high. this will cause excessive "crank windage" and rob hp. as the crank spins it has oil that is still stuck to it that spins with it. it the oil level is too high, more of the crank will be emersed in the oil, robbing power from the thick viscous fluid.

sorry. not robbing power from the fliud... robbing power, caused by the fliud... darn puncuation

no problems here. Changed my oil at 1000 miles and put in 4.8 quarts of Royal Purple.

As the motor breaks in, the rings seal better, providing higher combustion chamber pressures. With that, the power goes up.

If the power goes down, I bet the motor has not been broken in properly.

What kind of oil did he put in at 3000?

He said he switched to Mobil 1 synthetic. 5w-30.
I will ask him about break in.

There is the problem, I think.

3000 miles is too early to switch to Synth if you ask me.

I did the switch at 3000 miles also. I switched to synthetic because I only drive 600 to 700 miles per month. ( I work to much ) I usualy drive my wifes 1999 Subaru Outback sedan on the weekends.

I may change back to Dino oil at 6000 for awhile and see if i notice the difference.. Winter here in Michigan can be strange. It could be 65 to 70 Degrees one day and minus 15 the next.

I hope the FlingDutchman see's this thread and can reply.

Blue

with synthetic Royal Purple I didn't notice any gains or losses. I switched oil to synthetic at 1000 miles. Don't know why It would be too early for a synthetic. Changing the oil to get all the break-in crud out isn't a bad idea. I'm gonna change the oil again at 4000 miles.

The thing about Synth oil, is that it is too slick. Thats good. However, when the engine is breaking in, you don't want everything to slide easy. You want it to run and wear in. Rings especisally.

So, if the oil is too "oily", the break in procedue could just stop or take longer to complete.

I recommend running regular oil for 5000 miles, then switch to blend and then to fully synth.

There was an amazing discussion on just this subject in the STi forum. There was a link to a site (near the bottom) that has photo comparisons of the two ways to break in a motor. I used to follow the drive it gentle method because thats the way my old man taught me :rolleyes: not anymore though. Oh here's a link to that thread http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30109

I just changed my oil yesterday. subaru Canada has suggested not going to a synthetic until 12-16000km due to the components in dino oil that help seat everything in the motor. Sort of like a extended treating process for the metal.

By going syn, it is possible the the oil will not correctly bond to the metal. I'm not a metalurgist, but this is consistant with other things I have seen in my line of work.

Oh well too late for me now.

I agree that going to the synthetic oil was too early @ 3k.

I would stay w/ high quality conventional oil til at least 10K giving the rings enough time to seat correctly. I am going to do this myself.....I just hope to be able to keep the rpm's down til my first oil change then get a tad harder on her! there are a lot of "fast and furious" cars around here (Boston area) that have been trying like hell to get me to play!!!

Although some of the senior members in here may have better advice, I am fairly new to the new age street machines and from what I have read they all make good logical sense.

Imprezer seems to top the list but I have not read everyone's posts but I have been spending more and more time in here to learn,

Where is this photo comparison that your talking about?

oil has nothing to do w/ break in.
corvettes, and porsche's come straight out of the factory w/ mobil 1 synthetic, and still have a normal break in period, just like other cars.
its actually a GOOD idea to switch to synthetic oil early on in the engines life, b/c you will get a lot more mileage out of the motor, and it allows the synthetic oil to bond to the new metal, especially cams, and make a protective layer which causes less friction, and allows for a higher, free'er reving engine.

Amen andyscoob, I couldn't have put it better and couldn't agrree more.

I have always thought it best to break in slowly, especially with newer, close tolerance engines. I changed my oil (02 WRX) 2-3 times in the first 5K miles, especially at 1K, 3K, 5K and then every 3K or so. I now have nearly 15K miles, and it is so smooth and quick! I play a bit a few days ago with an STI and she and I blew by several fnf others. Keep it clean, and if you want to use syth, that's ok, but my tuner (not a dealer) says use dino and change often. The temp here easily goes from -10 to +100 in the course of the year.

Originally posted by Snowy
There was an amazing discussion on just this subject in the STi forum. There was a link to a site (near the bottom) that has photo comparisons of the two ways to break in a motor. I used to follow the drive it gentle method because thats the way my old man taught me :rolleyes: not anymore though. Oh here's a link to that thread http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30109

Wow, there is so much wrong information in the thread I wouldn't know where to start.

-st

Just to update everyone...

Switched to Mobil 1 at 2300 miles. Car did seem slower but I reset the ECU and everything seemed back to normal immediately afterwards. Not sure why the car slowed, but she's fine now. It seemed like it was making less boost almost but I don’t have a boost gauge so it was hard to prove. I noticed full steam return after the ECU reset for sure however.

Also, I was very gentle during the break in period. I did go above 4000 rpms one or twice but I never did WOT or any redline shifts.

Again, the car is fine now but if anyone has any ideas as to why the car might have slowed down originally, I'd like to hear them.

Thanks,
FD

I switched to AMSOIL at 1000 miles and my engine revs more freely and the turbo spools much quicker....I think this is due to the "slippery nature" of synthetic oil.....

So far I am happy and have had zero problems and have a slightly faster "feeling" car... aloha - Jeremy

Gents. All 2004 WRX STi's come from the factory with Mobil 1.

Switching to Royal Purple is a giant step backward as it is only a Group II lubricant while Mobil 1 is a Group IV lube. I read articles at length on this topic in a Mustang Cobra chat group last year. The author is a very schollarly Petroleum Engineer and is a definitive source of info on the topic.

The individual that feels the power loss may actually be experiencing a smoother running motor after the oil change.

The tuner recommending dino oil obviously doesn't understand thermal breakdown of oil in a hot turbo. He is way behind the times. I will post the abbreviated list I culled from ~50pages of reading on the topic someday if anyone cares to doubt the credibility of this info. Running a turbo without a syntetic lube in 2004 is insane!! esp these high boost motors!

My mistake. Its the Evolution that comes from the factory filled with Mobil1, good for them bad for us. Gonna get that easy to cook dino oil out ASAP now that car has 1400 miles on it.
As far as break in, I've always done a progressive ramp up on motors, and it was real easy with the Warning signal on the tach of the STi. Basically I bumped up 500 RPMs every couple hundred miles starting at 4000 rpms. By 750- 800 miles, I would let it find 6000rpms periodically but no multi gear runs yet. When I broke thru 1000 miles I celebrated by getting on it good and hard thru the gears till I found the fuel cutoff and got to experience the REAL downforce that wing creates!!!
I'd discuss oil issues with a Petroleum engineer before listening to all the bull flying around. Why do all the world's greatest cars come with Mobil1 stock if break in is such an issue??? Good luck answering that one without shooting yourself in the foot and no, its not paid marketing. Short of hammering them off the lot and not alowing appropriate cool down times, todays motors have to be abused pretty badly to have problems due to break in. The attachment in the follwing post is my brief summary of 50 pages of reading I did on the topic a few years ago when I got my 99 SVT Cobra.

See below for the realities of motor oil and what really is good. Notice change intervals I was guided towards. 3000 miles is BS unless you punish your ride routinely. This is from data expertly explained by a Petroleum Engineer in ~2000.

OIL

1. Group V - Only needed for racing
Redline
Motul

2. Group IV - Best for long drain intervals, towing,high temps, hard driving
Mobil 1: Tri-Synthetic formula
Amsoil
Mobil 1 Super syn is closer to a Group III but they have multiple new patents on a new molecule which should keep it as a top tier product. Still the best in its class as it has always been.

3. Group III - (cheap synoils) Only buy if the price is right as they are inferior to Group IV. Never buy if same price as Mobil1
Syntec
Valvoline Synpower
Pennzoil Synthetic
Havoline Synthetic/ Exxon Synthetic,etc

4. Group II Highly refined mineral oils
Valvoline All Climate
Pennzoil PZL turbo: Very good product except below 15 degrees
Royal Purple

SYNTHETIC CHANGE INTERVALS for my typical driving as I don't tow
1x/yr or 7500-10000 miles for Mobil 1 or better oils
5000 to 7500miles for Group III
3000 to 5000 miles for Group II

Just some food for thought, for those who believe in extended Break-in periods before switching to synthetic.

With Dino oil for break in: If you drive 1000miles at an avg speed of 40mph, at an average RPM of 3000rpm each piston will go through one stroke ONE MILLION ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND times.

Now I am not a diagnostic expert for the wear properties metals or various engine components but that seems like an ample amount of strokes/cylinder on dino oil to "break in" various areas of the engine.

So those saying at or arround 8k switch to synthetic are saying that each cylinder needs 9MILLION strokes to be considered broken in??!?!?!

Sorry if it is off the current discussion topic, I just thought I would throw it out there

Luke, the world needs more logical types like you. Thank you!

lol ddski.

For some reason I was compelled to examine it mathematically.

But like I said, maybe for some odd reason 9million strokes is the magic number?!?! However I highly doubt it.

After reading the discussions back and forth on at least 4 subaru forums, The general consensus is that one should keep dino oil in for break in and then switch to synthetic. The time period is the contraversial variable.

So I say this, since wear does occur on metal parts early in the engines life, I changed out the factory oil at 1000miles with dino oil to get rid of any metal particles. Then since I like to change every 3k cause its easy to remember, I will put synthetic in at 3000miles.

To me this seems like a conservative way to go about it.

Seeing as you boys love to argue motor oil, I thought I'd loop you to a post I made last month at STi-Buki regarding a press relese supplied to me by a friend of mine who works for ExxonMobil; http://www.sti-buki.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122

- Janq