http://home.pacbell.net/tinytoes/b4.jpg

4th generation Legacy came out in Japan on May 23rd.

The spec of the 3 engines that'll be seen on new legacy at this time are the following.

EJ20-R DOHC 16V, twinscroll single turbo, dual AVCS (in&ex)
280ps/6400rpm 35.0kg.m/2400rpm

EJ20-R DOHC 16V NA, AVCS
190ps/7100rpm 20kg.m/4400rpm

EJ20-i SOHC 16V NA (the first ULEV Subaru motor)
140ps/5600rpm 19kg.m/4400rpm

All the engines features equal length headers, which results in quite a different exhaust sounds than previous Subaru engines.
The distinctive Subaru boxer beat is less pronounced.


5 speed AT is available for the first time in Subaru history with this new Legacy.
Turbo models have a choice of 5EAT or 5MT with 'dual mass' flywheel
NA models are 4EAT or 5MT


Legacy official website (japanese) (http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/index.html)

http://home.pacbell.net/tinytoes/legacytease3.jpg

http://www.apexjapan.com/news/04_leg/03_leg_photo.html

spy pic floating on the net
http://home.pacbell.net/tinytoes/legacyspy.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/mgolf/legacy2a.jpg

Oh, man. That's a great looking car. The teaser pics honestly turned me off, but I like it now.

The interior looks awesome, too.

The front end looks fantastic!!! The rear end might take time to adjust.. I hope the Sedan has a different set of tail lights.

hey there, there are actually a couple more good pix, with some Japanese translation at the "other" i-club site ...

New Legacy Pix (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=359162)

and B4
http://www.auto-g.jp/image.html?image=news/200305/12/newcar02/04_b.jpg
http://www.auto-g.jp/image.html?image=news/200305/12/newcar02/03_b.jpg

That Legacy Sedan rear end kind of looks like the new Civic rears...

Man, that is such a better looking car than the current legacy in my opinion...

Is it me but it seems like the lights have angel eyes around them.

Can anyone say SAAB 9-3.

I think both cars look nice. I haven't been following the Legacy news (what with all the STi fanfare), but it seems feasible that similarities might exist, based on the rumored (or confirmed) WRX-based 9-2 in the works.

Any word on the engine specs?
i have heard so many rumours that it is making me sick

Are we getting this too? I'll forego an Escalade for this.

Nissan Skyline meets, Nissan Altima........that's how the front end looks to me.....good

I don't like the 3 spoke steering wheel. But I'm digging everything else. Are those turn singal side view mirrors?

Originally posted by JeffSW_02WRX
That Legacy Sedan rear end kind of looks like the new Civic rears...

At least its better than that 90s design with the bright red plastic across that says Legacy/Subaru :)

I don't like the front. It looks like a Ford Taraus. The rear looks cool though. Like a new Audi A4.

I like the new designs that Subaru has been doing lately. I like the design of this car alot more than the current Legacy but... IMO i think the current WRX should look like the new Legacy and visversa. Think of it... to me the new Legacy looks much more sleeker than the WRX and it even gets a 3 spoke steering wheel while the WRX has 4. I just wonder if i can take the steering wheel off a Legacy and put it on my WRX:rolleyes:

light's look a bit Mazda 6ish... good thing the Mazda is gorgeous. I like it a lot.:D

I really like this car. I'm glad they're turning the Legacy into a more sporty car, the scoop and steering wheel are skilled. I can't wait for the turbo Legacy (or STi or whatever it's going to be) to get to the US, my checkbook is just itching to write that deposit!<br><br>BTW, wrxwagon2b, I don't know if it was in here or somewhere else that I read that the '04 WRX design is a watered down version of a new Legacy design (maybe this one), it just so happened that the WRX got to market first.

Woooo Hooo! That's a nice a ride! Tell me we will get one just like it! I like my rex but I could change my mind if this showed up at the dealers! (Anybody Listeining Out There????)

i dig the wheels:cool:

Whoa, that car looks awesome. While I'm still not sure about the 04 impreza, this new Legacy looks like a real class act. Who would have thought BMW could learn a thing or two from Subaru? :rolleyes:

Keep up the great news reports!

The spec of the 3 engines that'll be seen on new legacy at this time are the following.

EJ20-R DOHC 16V, twinscroll single turbo, dual AVCS (in&ex)
280ps/6400rpm 35.0kg.m/2400rpm

EJ20-R DOHC 16V NA, AVCS
190ps/7100rpm 20kg.m/4400rpm

EJ20-i SOHC 16V NA (the first ULEV Subaru motor)
140ps/5600rpm 19kg.m/4400rpm Ok, I just saw the Japanese Subaru site with the new Legacy. Wow, I just thought I liked the WRX STi, but this new Legacy wagon REALLY gets me steaming. But I can't read Japanese, please help!

Here are my questions:

1. What year model is this new Legacy? 2004 or 2005?
2. Is it coming to the U.S., and if so, when?
3. What Horsepower and Torque ratings do those engines translate to?
4. Is the B4 coming to the U.S.?

Thanks in advance!

I have been waiting for this car for a while and I really like it - But like someone mentioned it does have some similarities to the Taurus. The model I especially like is the Legacy 2.0 GT spec b the front lip makes it look slick. Hopefully the US will get this version. I especially like the propects of being able to get this vehicle in my favorite color BLUE.

another pic of a taurus and link to Legacy spec b page

http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/b4/01/01_04.html

Originally posted by Martyr

1. What year model is this new Legacy? 2004 or 2005?
2. Is it coming to the U.S., and if so, when?
3. What Horsepower and Torque ratings do those engines translate to?
4. Is the B4 coming to the U.S.?


1. Japan doesn't have model year system like how we do.
They distinguish models by chasis code.
New Legacy wagon is BP and B4 is BL

2. Probably it's gonna come here in US as 2005 model. Possibly with different motor for US

3. Horsepower is almost 1 to 1. You can assume the turbo model is 280 horsepower. The torque on that turbo motor is 253 ft-lb

4. Most likely B4 is coming, not sure if it's gonna be named as B4 though

Looks like a Mazda six?? Umm no. Anyways, it looks really good, I like it a lot. I've been waiting for a turbo Legacy for about 3 years now and I'll finally get one. Time to trade in the Trusty RS.

Thats the hottest car I've seen in a while!

I was looking at the new Saab 9-3 as a more client oriented car then my current 02WRX but looks like I have a car to wait for!

This one's gonna be HOT, only thing is it should be a bit lower in stance!


-LUX

1. Japan doesn't have model year system like how we do.
They distinguish models by chasis code.
New Legacy wagon is BP and B4 is BL

2. Probably it's gonna come here in US as 2005 model. Possibly with different motor for US

3. Horsepower is almost 1 to 1. You can assume the turbo model is 280 horsepower. The torque on that turbo motor is 253 ft-lb

4. Most likely B4 is coming, not sure if it's gonna be named as B4 though
Woot, thanks for the info! 280 HP?!?! Sheesh, that rocks. I am SO sold on the Legacy Wagon 2.0GT Spec B. I sure hope they bring over that engine (or a more powerful one, like they did with the STi).

The new Legacy Wagon is so much more usable to me than the STi. It's a wagon, looks classier, more seat room, more cargo room, better ride, dual sunroof, no ricer wing, stealth hood scoop (nice!). Of course, it doesn't have quite as much power as the STi, but those tradeoffs more than make up for it (to me anyway).

This may be a dumb question, but are the only differences between the B4 and the Legacy Wagon just the fact that one is a sedan and one is a wagon? Are there any other differences?

Iread in C/D a couple of months ago that there was a rumored twin turbo H6, subaru was toying with to bring here. The article said the motor put out 345Hp....hopefully not just a rumor.

For the US the top of the range Legacy will most likely get a 2.5 L engine based on the Sti.

So expect 280 ps with lotsa torque.

You will not see a twin turbo H6.

Subaru have decided a single twin scroll turbo is the way to go for their turbo models.

The only difference between the sedan and wagon will be weight.

Why no turbo H6? Everyone also thought subaru wouldn't release a 2.5T too and look what they did. Americans have different needs. You never know what they're up to, maybe the want to go after the M5's? Wouldn't that be sweet...

yea the rumor from C/D was that the Forester was getting the EJ25T thats in the STi but was gonna be a lil detuned compared to the STIi setup (257 hp). Im sure Subaru has something up there sleeves for the US market and will bring something no short of spectacular to the states. My prediction is that they will bring the EJ20-r DOHC NA engine as a base engine, EJ25T in a GT model of some sort, then in 2 years time a Xtreme model will come out with some sort of turbo H6. This prediction isnt farfecthed... I mean did ANY1 expect a EJ25T for the US market?:cool:

BTW the new B4 is a sweet ass car. it looks great. it looks like a Mazda 6, a Civic, and a WRX had some beautiful kid. I am so tempted to get the new Legacy instead of the 04 WRX wagon now. Either way i hope we get that Pearl White :D ooo it looks so hot...

Note: Subaru please bring those 7 colors available for the GT model over to the US for the WRX wagon too PLEASE:cool:

Drool......

And that about sums it up.

Originally posted by luxcar101
Thats the hottest car I've seen in a while!

I was looking at the new Saab 9-3 as a more client oriented car then my current 02WRX but looks like I have a car to wait for!

This one's gonna be HOT, only thing is it should be a bit lower in stance!


-LUX

agree
must buy !! :D

Damn! whats next? The return of the brat...

Return of the Brat?? Can you say Baja? :-) .....I want a 400hp Legacy Turbo... Show those damn BMW's what's up.

i wonder why they dont put the H-6 3.0 lit into the legacy
twin turbo it ...
its gonna be the beast
then they can have a new car line

like right now the US spec legacy is in the middle of nowhere
low hp, performace sucks compare to the Impreza
i wonder who buy legacy in US

Subaru will bring the 2.5 single turbo Legacy out for the US for 2004.

280ps is more than a standard Wrx so it ain't lacking in power !

If you have every driven a turbo legacy then you'll know why people want to buy it.

The RS sedan and GT-B wagon are able to hit 7500rpm's+. On paper it produces identical power to the STi.

At first it was only around 246hp, but it soon moved into the 276hp bracket, though with a bit less torque than the STi.

One of the reasons Subaru never brought the Twin Turbo B4 Legacy to the US was due to the twin turbo setup it was very difficult to convert it to left hand drive.

Originally posted by sub9lulu
i wonder why they dont put the H-6 3.0 lit into the legacy
twin turbo it ...

performace sucks compare to the Impreza
i wonder who buy legacy in US

H6 will be added later in fall. No info on turbo H6 yet.
6spd will be added later too. It will not be the same 6spd as the current STi one. Subaru is working on making a lightweight 6spd for Legacy.

Legacy is a performance car but not a competition car like how WRX STi is. So it's hard to judge the car from spec sheet.
I think it's meaningless to compare Legacy and Impreza in a general term of performance because each of them are aiming for different kind of performance. Of course it's just my opinion.

what i m saying is the 03 US legacy
all of them are 165hp

i know the j-spec legacy is good, the spec are almost equal to the impreza. legacy is big time seller in japan

Awesome car. give me the 2.5l turbo any day. I saw plenty of B4 RSKs when I was in Japan. Love that car. I will buy one as soon as the turbo comes out. Bye bye Volvo V70 T5.

Erik

WOOOOOO!!!! That is a fly ride! When I need a bigger car, it's gonna be that one hands down!

Q-Ball

man that is slick looking...

any idea if I can get those rims (I'm assuming they're 17") for my WRX?

Those wheels on the black B4 are 18 inches.;)
215/45/18 tires.

That's a nice looking car.:)

Hey Since this is Subaru i think they are gonna eventually bring the H6 to the US and the second to top engine then bring a Turboed H6 to go against the Volvo S60 R. Volvo doesnt have a direct competitor performance wise and Subaru H6T model would be in the Price range ($35-40 grand)

.02:monkey:

It's a nice car but I think it kinda lost the subaru look a little. Looks a little like the Maxima

Josh

Not too sure what to think about the exterior design.. It looks like a Honda Accord up front. This means.. mundane, bland, boring.. But, I haven't seen the rear yet so I won't make a decision on the exterior design yet.

Tim

dude that thing look 10000000000 times better then those ricer hondas
its awd subaru babe

Originally posted by awd-turismo
Can anyone say SAAB 9-3.

I think both cars look nice. I haven't been following the Legacy news (what with all the STi fanfare), but it seems feasible that similarities might exist, based on the rumored (or confirmed) WRX-based 9-2 in the works.

I think it's the other way around. When I first saw a 9-3 my initial response was, "Hey, is that a new Legacy?" Saab copied Subaru, not the other way around.

Now if you had said that back end of the sedan looks like the previous generation Audi A4.... :)

Also, does anyone know if this is more than just a minor, if very well done, facelift? The stuff between the fenders looks almost identical to my '00 Legacy.

Cheers,
-wdb

wdb>
I agree with you.
It has similar proportion as the original B4 and I think they did a fine job refining the design.
Especially the rear section, it looks very similar to the original B4.
People seems to find resemblance to other cars in this thread but I think overall the car is very very B4like.
Yea Saab definitely copied B4 with that new sedan.

Original B4 was designed with Porsche and to me it is one of the best looking sedan. It has a unique C-pillar area I think the c-pillar to the rear trunk lid area is the most sexy part of the car.
I'm glad Subaru kept it.

OK so when is this coming to the US, what engines do we get, and does anyone have the power rating is HP ? :-) I want it , I want it , I want it !!!!!!!

wagon pic
http://www.webcg.net/images/webcg/R000051513.jpg

wagon is nice
but IMO it doesnt look as good as the sedan

From the pics I have seen, I can say that something is going on at Subaru. What a beautiful, tasetful, understated sedan. Coupled with AWD and 280+hp it should be more than a match for the overpriced Audi/Passat/C-Class MBZ/3-series BMW

Where do I sign up for a black B4??!!

A couple of comments.

1. To answer my own question, this car is a significant upgrade over the current Legacy, despite the similarities in overall shape. It's essentially an all-new body structure, lighter and stronger at the same time. Plus there are significant engine mods such as equal-length headers (and a considerable amount of cylinder head redesign to make it possible). Suspension changes are fewer but also significant, such as the use of aluminum to save unsprung weight.

2. Subaru does something for their Legacy wagons that few others do anymore; they make everything from the A-pillars back specific to the wagon. Look at the horizontal window lines; see how smooth they are, and also how the rear door windows blend right into the rearmost side window sections? Now look at a Taurus, or even the Impreza wagon. Notice how the rear doors and windows are identical to the sedan, how the wagon section looks like a tacked-on afterthought, and how that makes the side view of the car appear discontinuous and broken-up, especially when compared to the Legacy wagon. Also, Legacy wagons have higher rooflines than their sedan counterparts. This allows for good overall proportions as well as copious space inside for people and their stuff.

The result of all that extra effort and expense is the smooth, seamless beauties you see pictured here, the latest in a long line of fine looking wagons from Subaru.

Cheers,
-wdb

Maybe it's me.. I just can't help but look at it from the front and see a honda accord with a hood duct.. (seems more of a duct than a scoop)

But I'm sure the mechanics of the car will be awesome. Most likely a H6? Maybe a turbo H6 on the Sti version? Now that is something I can drool over.. :D

Tim

Here are spies of the Outback.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/6923_image.jpg

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/6924_image.jpg

That legacy looks awesome! are there any performance estimates yet? If that thing can haul like the WRX, then i'm set on buying one of those later on.

I think it is confirmed that the 9-2 will basically be a WRX. Same performance, everything. A Saabaru if you will. Car and Driver did an article on it. Since Saab and Subaru are all under the loving care of GM now...

Originally posted by Twu Perfect
Since Saab and Subaru are all under the loving care of GM now...

Well I'd rather have GM caring for Subaru rather than Ford. :D Of course that's just me.

Tim

Not me, I think Ford has done a better job turning around the fortunes of Mazda, Jaguar and Volvo than GM has with Saab. Plus, GM doesn't really control Subaru, they just have a significant chunk of Fuji Heavy Industries stock. Which may or may not be a good thing, sharing parts and platforms will boost FHI's revenues. But, it will also water down a lot of the Subaru exclusivity, that many of us enjoy.:)

yea. i think so too. Ford knows what they are doin and they have done a good job with Mazda, Jag and volvo. hopfully Subaru can make enough money to buy FHI out of GM's hands and be a free company and do what eva they feel like. no sharing platforms, no sharing technologies and no sharing models. there are only about 2 or 3 independent car brands i can think of, Honda and Porsch. hopfully Subaru can become 1 of them.

I'm actually surprised that Mazda was allowed by Ford to do a Rotary project. There were rumors buzzing around a couple of years ago that Ford didn't want any type of rotary project and was on the verge of cancelling the prototype RX-Evolv. There were even reports by certain magazines that Ford was scared that the Rotary could "displace" what they had in the Mustang. Of course the rumors went somewhere and the rotary is what you see today.

Fenix.. You forgot Toyota. :D

Tim

umm... doesnt Toyota incorperate Daihatsu?

The Ford division won't be touching the rotary. Mazda said under no circumstances will the Wankel be doing any cross-platform work whatsoever. It's strictly Mazda.

Originally posted by Johnny Rocks
Damn! whats next? The return of the brat...


uhhm yeah they already did that...its just called the BAJA

Does anyone have any Idea on the price of this fine new Legacy, if it does indeed come to the states?

Originally posted by samurai
Maybe it's me.. I just can't help but look at it from the front and see a honda accord with a hood duct.. (seems more of a duct than a scoop)

But I'm sure the mechanics of the car will be awesome. Most likely a H6? Maybe a turbo H6 on the Sti version? Now that is something I can drool over.. :D

Tim

just give us the US Sti motor tuned for better low end. No need for the big H6.

erik

Hello everyone ... just to advise the club, the Gen4 Legacy is out here in New Zealand officially now as of 18th July, 2003.
I'm a member of www.clubsub.org.nz which is a car club in New Zealand just setup not just solely for Subaru owners (one of our commettee members is getting a Evo 7) but for everyone.
Anyway, I would like to invite everyone from this club to drop by our web site :D
And if anyone would like to know more about the Gen4 Legacy, the Subaru NZ web site address is www.subaru.co.nz
And by the way ... over here in NZ, turbo Legacies (sedans and esp. in wagon form) out number the amount of WRX/STi in the country as the Legacy Wagons are valued more as a status symbol :D

I bought a 2000 legacy and traded that in when i saw they changed the frontend on the 2003 legacy ( i have a 5 year lease and i'm broke becasue of it.). i dont care if i'm broke for the rest of my life, i'm gunna get the 2005 turbo. i'm a legacy owner 4 life. i just hope the new legacy will get a spolier.

Originally posted by naking
[B]i dont care if i'm broke for the rest of my life, i'm gunna get the 2005 turbo. B]

WORD!

Well, I'll only get it if they have a 2.5 turbo wagon...

Oh, is it true that the car has 3 pitch stop mounts? I scanned through a Japanese Legacy magazine and though I saw something of that nature?

bump

Originally posted by go go go
http://home.pacbell.net/tinytoes/b4.jpg

4th generation Legacy came out in Japan on May 23rd.

The spec of the 3 engines that'll be seen on new legacy at this time are the following.

EJ20-R DOHC 16V, twinscroll single turbo, dual AVCS (in&ex)
280ps/6400rpm 35.0kg.m/2400rpm

EJ20-R DOHC 16V NA, AVCS
190ps/7100rpm 20kg.m/4400rpm

EJ20-i SOHC 16V NA (the first ULEV Subaru motor)
140ps/5600rpm 19kg.m/4400rpm

All the engines features equal length headers, which results in quite a different exhaust sounds than previous Subaru engines.
The distinctive Subaru boxer beat is less pronounced.


5 speed AT is available for the first time in Subaru history with this new Legacy.
Turbo models have a choice of 5EAT or 5MT with 'dual mass' flywheel
NA models are 4EAT or 5MT


Legacy official website (japanese) (http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/index.html)

Damn that's SIK!!! :eek:

hey a saab is making a awd car that they want to compete with subaru i do not remember the exact numbers but they were impresive, i always liked the nine 3 the viggan was pretty cool.

but imo the should have justed turboed the flat six and just got over with it already with a 6 speed tranny, not that bull**** ratio they put in six speeds now i am talkin fat syncroed 1st gear and a sixth that feels like when you throw from second into third after 5 grand in 5th you want to be dropin into 6th not a ****ty 3 to 4 . i hope somebody out there understands what i mean not a close ratio don't tighten up the box to fit six, take a box for five and add a full sixth gear. besides how big is the falt six in inches from belts to clutch lenth wise? can you fit it into an impreza or is it to long?

actually i want a pleo they rule (website japan)

Originally posted by Bagin,DVS
hey a saab is making a awd car that they want to compete with subaru i do not remember the exact numbers but they were impresive, i always liked the nine 3 the viggan was pretty cool. No, not compete. GM has controlling interest in both Subaru and Saab.. the new Saab is likely based off of a Subaru platform. The vehicles should be different enough from each other to not compete directly.. that would be foolish (of course, we are speaking about GM, who sucessfully pitted it's own Buick & Oldsmobile against each other for decades until one fell).


Originally posted by Bagin,DVS
but imo the should have justed turboed the flat six and just got over with it already with a 6 speed tranny, not that bull**** ratio they put in six speeds now i am talkin fat syncroed 1st gear and a sixth that feels like when you throw from second into third after 5 grand in 5th you want to be dropin into 6th not a ****ty 3 to 4 . i hope somebody out there understands what i mean not a close ratio don't tighten up the box to fit six, take a box for five and add a full sixth gear. besides how big is the falt six in inches from belts to clutch lenth wise? can you fit it into an impreza or is it to long?
You're talking about a subaru.. a nose heavy car as it is. If you (like me) would like to see Subaru compared with the likes of BMW, then you need to understand the importance of weight balance. The H6 is heavy.. and it hangs cantilevered over the front axle (as do the lighter 4 cylinders)... this means massive amounts of understeer at the limits. Add the AWD onto that and you've got a car that hates to rotate. Read any test of the current models with H6s, they're pigs when it comes to cornering (even the SVX had some serious troubles with yaw).
Turboed flat 4s is the best approach you're going to find until Subaru can figure out how to nestle the block in under the front diff.

As for transmissions, you want a box that will transfer massive amounts of torque, but you want to just throw another gear into it...:rolleyes: Bigger, wider gears can handle more torque, bigger wider gears take up more room, and last time I checked, we still have not managed to make two particles of mass occupy the same space.. some damn physics laws or something :rolleyes:

AutoWeek: 2004 Subaru Legacy
Your next turbo Subie awaits (http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=04640159)

The engine options will be:

170hp 2.5L H4
~250hp 2.5L Turbo H4
247hp 3.0L H6

The H4 turbo models should be significantly faster than the H6 because of the lower weight and better weight balance.

Pricing should be $20,000-$36,000.

My guess is $29k-$32k for the basic turbo models.

........................................
I really wish Subaru would bite the bullet and build a lightweight,mid-engined, RWD, supercar using off the shelf parts.

GM has controlling interest in Saab.
GM has some interest in Subaru.
They do not have controlling interest.
Subaru is controlled by Fuji Heavy Industries.

hey what is a screen connector? some 6.69 mb availible? do i want it?

It's the best looking Subaru ever!!!

Pretty conservative design... BUt, I like it!!!