My FLI (Fine Line Imports) Experience (posted 02-23-2006)
02-23-2006, 10:57 PM
#106
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i dont think it has much to do with the motor being bad i think it was an issue with the build up, i seen the car right before Jeff drove it to FLI this last time is was smoking pretty heavy from the exhuast smelt like coolant burning and if you held your hand on the tip of the muffler it would be sticky like burnt coolant, so my guess would have been a head gasket seeing that the leakdown was abnormal only on one side of the block, its possible the head studs were not torqued to spec and the gasket lifted, its also possible that the turbo was leaking coolant that would explain the smoke but not the leakdown results
Last edited by Long_Travel_WRX; 02-23-2006 at 11:03 PM.
02-23-2006, 11:05 PM
#107
Originally Posted by Long_Travel_WRX
i dont think it has much to do with the motor being bad i think it was an issue with the build up, i seen the car right before Jeff drove it to FLI this last time is was smoking pretty heavy from the exhuast smelt like coolant burning and if you held your hand on the tip of the muffler it would be sticky like burnt coolant, so my guess would have been a head gasket seeing that the leakdown was abnormal only on one side of the block, its possible the head studs were not torqued to spec and the gasket lifted, its also possible that the turbo was leaking coolant that would explain the smoke but not the leakdown results
exactly...a lot could have been wrong and none of it was jeff's fault.
02-23-2006, 11:05 PM
#108
Originally Posted by blkbetty02
And yes this right here ^ is a reiveiw Jeff, all the bull**** you and your little cronies have been posting is not reveiw it is here-say slander mother ****er! You need to get out from behind your computer and get severly owned, I am happy to do it too. You are a dishonest ****! a pathalogical liar really
Summary: Just crawl back into the cave you came from you stupid little troll. When you are ready to come back and play with the adults, mabye someone will take you seriously.
02-23-2006, 11:07 PM
#109
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Originally Posted by Long_Travel_WRX
its possible the head studs were not torqued to spec and the gasket lifted, s
02-23-2006, 11:32 PM
#110
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hey jeff i'm not sure if you remember me or not but I actually met you at gruppe-s when I was trying to get my car tuned but couldn't because i didn't have the proper pill for my turbo so you offered me yours since your car wasn't working. I talked to a buddy of mine who is really good friends with FLI about your situation and was really surpised that this happened to you. I can obviously see why people that has had a good experience with them would be loyal to them, I mean thats how anyone would be. But I am in agreement with you, you already paid for the install of the motor just because gruppe-s did a compression test should not void the warranty. FLI and Gruppe-s work together all the time if you take it upir car to gruppe-s it shouldn't void your warranty, I mean those guys are friends, I know mike is always working with them so it's kinda odd that they would void your warranty for taking your car to a guy that they know very well. Just take them to small claims court. hey like I always say "it's just business" your not gonna get anything done by just talking about it. Action speaks louder then words...
Raymund
Raymund
02-24-2006, 12:30 AM
#111
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"I made certain that Crawford had the block in your hands on the 5th"
if i'm reading correctly you had crawford build the motor or you got the motor from crawford? on top of that FLI sent it to crawford for a leakdown test? if so u might want to read this:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...6&page=1&pp=25
sorry to hear about all the BS you went thru. it sounds like FLI is all about $$$ and not customer service. dropping all that money, i would expect any company to do all they can to get that car running.
if i'm reading correctly you had crawford build the motor or you got the motor from crawford? on top of that FLI sent it to crawford for a leakdown test? if so u might want to read this:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...6&page=1&pp=25
sorry to hear about all the BS you went thru. it sounds like FLI is all about $$$ and not customer service. dropping all that money, i would expect any company to do all they can to get that car running.
02-24-2006, 02:44 AM
#112
This my friend is why I bought a JDM longblock...I dont trust many people to do anything to my car.
On topic though....FLI treated me good when I bought a part from them, however...this situation is total BS. FLI will soon realize a happy customer tells 3 people. An angry customer tells 30. To this day I trash talk places that have done me wrong....you think people dont recount my conversation with them about how I was shafted?
For you North Bay fanboys...get over it. Just because you were treated good and had good experiences with your bolt on part doesnt mean a performance motor buildup and tune is gonna go the same way. Step out of your little box and realize you can support someone who has treated you well without looking like asshats infront of everyone else.
On topic though....FLI treated me good when I bought a part from them, however...this situation is total BS. FLI will soon realize a happy customer tells 3 people. An angry customer tells 30. To this day I trash talk places that have done me wrong....you think people dont recount my conversation with them about how I was shafted?
For you North Bay fanboys...get over it. Just because you were treated good and had good experiences with your bolt on part doesnt mean a performance motor buildup and tune is gonna go the same way. Step out of your little box and realize you can support someone who has treated you well without looking like asshats infront of everyone else.
02-24-2006, 06:13 AM
#113
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Originally Posted by swift2fly
"I made certain that Crawford had the block in your hands on the 5th"
if i'm reading correctly you had crawford build the motor or you got the motor from crawford? on top of that FLI sent it to crawford for a leakdown test? if so u might want to read this:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...6&page=1&pp=25
sorry to hear about all the BS you went thru. it sounds like FLI is all about $$$ and not customer service. dropping all that money, i would expect any company to do all they can to get that car running.
if i'm reading correctly you had crawford build the motor or you got the motor from crawford? on top of that FLI sent it to crawford for a leakdown test? if so u might want to read this:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...6&page=1&pp=25
sorry to hear about all the BS you went thru. it sounds like FLI is all about $$$ and not customer service. dropping all that money, i would expect any company to do all they can to get that car running.
02-24-2006, 08:18 AM
#114
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All you guys saying u would get a lawyer makes laugh ... He authorized the motor to be pulled ... They did not state at anytime oh the reinstallation of the motor when it comes back is on guy? Right? Legally there is nothin he can do, they deinstalled the motor for free and u authorized it. Done. If u want it back in pay for it!
02-24-2006, 08:18 AM
#115
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Originally Posted by ipozestu
Nope. That is not possible, because I paid for extra labor to torque the ARP head studs
haha, you paid for a lot that you didnt get.
i think in the whole outcome, FLI should have just said "pay us a couple grand for nothing, and we'll save you a lot of headache by suggesting gruppe-s"
02-24-2006, 08:23 AM
#116
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Originally Posted by bigworm
All you guys saying u would get a lawyer makes laugh ... He authorized the motor to be pulled ... They did not state at anytime oh the reinstallation of the motor when it comes back is on guy? Right? Legally there is nothin he can do, they deinstalled the motor for free and u authorized it. Done. If u want it back in pay for it!
02-24-2006, 08:30 AM
#117
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Originally Posted by bigworm
All you guys saying u would get a lawyer makes laugh ... He authorized the motor to be pulled ... They did not state at anytime oh the reinstallation of the motor when it comes back is on guy? Right? Legally there is nothin he can do, they deinstalled the motor for free and u authorized it. Done. If u want it back in pay for it!
ok lets say they didnt "have" to... are you gonna say that is good business/being good to your HIGH paying customer to not offer to put it back in as apart of all the money he paid them??
as i recall jeffery paid them to complete a job. not do part of a job take it out to test and not finish what he paid them to do.
what it comes down to is, they didnt finish what they started and didnt take care of jeffery the way LIC gruppe-s or EQ would have...
damn jeff you should have just had me do it for a 6pack of beer
might have had better results that way haha.
02-24-2006, 08:58 AM
#120
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Now back on topic.
I've been talking with Jeff all along this entire process. Personally I think he's handled himself really well. We've talked about when and if he should make posts like this several times and a lot of patience and thought went in to it. It would have been a warranted post a couple weeks ago.
My thought on the issue are these.
—2 hours for a baseline map is rediculous.
—7 hours of smashing on a brand new motor to tune it is rediculous. When your curves are all over the place like that and you're getting no where maybe you should check the ego and call someone that has delt with the injectors that you admitted not wanting to deal with. I personally don't understand how a hacked tip injector is better than one by a company that has had a solid reputation for some 40 years.
—why would you tear out, tear down and ship off a motor that you tested and were confident was fine? Maybe there is other damage to the motor that wasn't the block. The heads. Maybe the injectors were installed incorrectly, etc.
there were several ways to deal with this. If they were truly confident that they didn't toast the block then they should have said so. If they were truly confident that their work was right then they should have stood by it. Not said..yeah jeff we'll do what we have to do to make this right.
Jeff isn't asking for all of his money back. He is asking for the cost of labor to install and tune the motor since basically for him...that labor has not been done.
In any industry it works like that. Shoot, I used to do flooring. You go in...lay someone's hardwood flooring and it's not right...the toilet you moved isn't working or a board pops up or something like that you go back and fix it. No questions asked. Not go...hey umm...we want another $75 an hour for having to come back and fix our ****ed up work. It doesn't work like that.
You are selling a product. Your labor is a way to give that product. If you aren't good at what you do or have issues or what not and it takes longer to get done...you don't make as much money. Period.
If I paint someone's car and it peals up I don't charge them to sand down and repaint. Or say...oh I think that paint is fine it's your car that's the problem so we'll sand it down and prove it to you..then you can pay us to repaint it again. Not gonna happen.
My opinion.
FLI needs to refund jeff the labor. Part ways and be happy they got money for the products.
They're lucky it's not me they're dealing with because I would have had a lawyer involved long ago. At this point I'd give them back all their parts. Demand ALL my money back and tell them to **** off.
Personally I wouldn't have delt with them in the first place but hindsight is 20/20. Nobody is gonna come out of this for the better. FLI will be out their time...that's it...their time. Jeff is gonna be stuck with parts that he isn't sure that FLI didn't screw up and he's gonna have to start over from scratch.
FLI has gone back and forth. We'll help you. **** off. We'll help you. **** off. For the last month.
Their business practice is a joke. Their tuning abilities scare me. Their communication as a team..the partners of the business....a joke.
This again is my opinion and what I have seen on the outside looking in. Take it as you will. it's not my car. Not my shop. not my money. i've just been there watching and listening the whole time. Talking things over.
If anyone says that jeff didn't put a crap load of thought and effort into this they're crazy. He's lost about as much money in work hours as they have in all of this. Not to mention stress and not having his car for 6 weeks...plus whatever it's gonna take to fix this mess. He's been patient and very clear in communication.
Like I said. Jeff lost work hours. They lost work hours. Give jeff his car his parts his labor money. Walk away. all of this could have been stopped by just doing that.
Or by miles making a couple phone calls to figure out why he couldn't get solid AF ratios. That's it.
I've been talking with Jeff all along this entire process. Personally I think he's handled himself really well. We've talked about when and if he should make posts like this several times and a lot of patience and thought went in to it. It would have been a warranted post a couple weeks ago.
My thought on the issue are these.
—2 hours for a baseline map is rediculous.
—7 hours of smashing on a brand new motor to tune it is rediculous. When your curves are all over the place like that and you're getting no where maybe you should check the ego and call someone that has delt with the injectors that you admitted not wanting to deal with. I personally don't understand how a hacked tip injector is better than one by a company that has had a solid reputation for some 40 years.
—why would you tear out, tear down and ship off a motor that you tested and were confident was fine? Maybe there is other damage to the motor that wasn't the block. The heads. Maybe the injectors were installed incorrectly, etc.
there were several ways to deal with this. If they were truly confident that they didn't toast the block then they should have said so. If they were truly confident that their work was right then they should have stood by it. Not said..yeah jeff we'll do what we have to do to make this right.
Jeff isn't asking for all of his money back. He is asking for the cost of labor to install and tune the motor since basically for him...that labor has not been done.
In any industry it works like that. Shoot, I used to do flooring. You go in...lay someone's hardwood flooring and it's not right...the toilet you moved isn't working or a board pops up or something like that you go back and fix it. No questions asked. Not go...hey umm...we want another $75 an hour for having to come back and fix our ****ed up work. It doesn't work like that.
You are selling a product. Your labor is a way to give that product. If you aren't good at what you do or have issues or what not and it takes longer to get done...you don't make as much money. Period.
If I paint someone's car and it peals up I don't charge them to sand down and repaint. Or say...oh I think that paint is fine it's your car that's the problem so we'll sand it down and prove it to you..then you can pay us to repaint it again. Not gonna happen.
My opinion.
FLI needs to refund jeff the labor. Part ways and be happy they got money for the products.
They're lucky it's not me they're dealing with because I would have had a lawyer involved long ago. At this point I'd give them back all their parts. Demand ALL my money back and tell them to **** off.
Personally I wouldn't have delt with them in the first place but hindsight is 20/20. Nobody is gonna come out of this for the better. FLI will be out their time...that's it...their time. Jeff is gonna be stuck with parts that he isn't sure that FLI didn't screw up and he's gonna have to start over from scratch.
FLI has gone back and forth. We'll help you. **** off. We'll help you. **** off. For the last month.
Their business practice is a joke. Their tuning abilities scare me. Their communication as a team..the partners of the business....a joke.
This again is my opinion and what I have seen on the outside looking in. Take it as you will. it's not my car. Not my shop. not my money. i've just been there watching and listening the whole time. Talking things over.
If anyone says that jeff didn't put a crap load of thought and effort into this they're crazy. He's lost about as much money in work hours as they have in all of this. Not to mention stress and not having his car for 6 weeks...plus whatever it's gonna take to fix this mess. He's been patient and very clear in communication.
Like I said. Jeff lost work hours. They lost work hours. Give jeff his car his parts his labor money. Walk away. all of this could have been stopped by just doing that.
Or by miles making a couple phone calls to figure out why he couldn't get solid AF ratios. That's it.