religion is so awesome.
 

[url]http://www.godhates***s.com/fliers/feb2007/20070207_tennessee-kentucky-deadly-fires.pdf[/url]

i hope all the people that follow this **** die a slow, painful death.

edit: replace the *** with f@g, but with a real a. LOL.

the above is why religion is retarded..... brainwashed like whoa

People are dumb.

That is all.

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]the above is why religion is retarded..... brainwashed like whoa[/QUOTE]

not all religions are bad.... buddhists are pretty chill

i do not have any religious beliefs and haven't even been in a church in over a dozen years and don't plan to anytime in the future.

[i]however[/i], religion itself is not retarded, the people who pervert it and use it for their own prejudices and agendas are.

The idea of "faith" can be helpful, when someone doesn't use the context to further their "opinions". The fact that one must interpret what was already from another language probably doesn't help any.

There is a side of the spectrum that religion is good for... and helps them cope with life and makes them a better person, imo they are weak minded individuals.. but that's a different story...


then there is the other side with just as many if not more people that religion makes them go ****ing wacko and do things that are immoral and wrong... who are also weak minded

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]then there is the other side with just as many if not more people that religion makes them go ****ing wacko and do things that are immoral and wrong... who are also weak minded[/QUOTE]

relgion doesn't make them go ****ing wacko, they're already wacko. religion is just what they use as an excuse.

[QUOTE=RussB]relgion doesn't make them go ****ing wacko, they're already wacko. religion is just what they use as an excuse.[/QUOTE]


So the free willingness to whipe out an entire race(ie. Islam vs. Jews) has NOTHING to do with religion... rightttt

and you are telling me these ****ing wackjobs that are boycotting all this stuff because of gays... aren't ****ed in the head because of religion?

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]So the free willingness to whipe out an entire race(ie. Islam vs. Jews) has NOTHING to do with religion... rightttt

and you are telling me these ****ing wackjobs that are boycotting all this stuff because of gays... aren't ****ed in the head because of religion?[/QUOTE]

that's exactly what i'm saying. you're likening religion to an emo teenager who off's himself because he listens to marilyn manson., which we all know is BS.

these people have some sort of defect that causes them to act this way and use religion as a cover story.

[QUOTE=RussB]that's exactly what i'm saying. you're likening religion to an emo teenager who off's himself because he listens to marilyn manson., which we all know is BS.

these people have some sort of defect that causes them to act this way and use religion as a cover story.[/QUOTE]


the defect is they were taught this **** since birth... it's not like these people have a true mental disorder... they just don't know any better since it's what they were taught since they were born... much like the muslims wanted to take out the jews for the holy land... they were taught that since birth so it's second nature, like taking a ****...

^WWJD???? haha

[QUOTE=TitanSTI][url]http://www.godhates***s.com/fliers/feb2007/20070207_tennessee-kentucky-deadly-fires.pdf[/url]

i hope all the people that follow this **** die a slow, painful death.

edit: replace the *** with f@g, but with a real a. LOL.[/QUOTE]

Wow those people are nuts...please don't associate me with those so-called "Christians"...

[QUOTE=T-Will]Wow those people are nuts...please don't associate me with those so-called "Christians"...[/QUOTE]

Agreed. this is why i hesitate to call myself a christian. i dont want to be associated with people like this.

[img]https://www.i-club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56934&stc=1[/img]
cuz some peeps don't have acrobat...but need to be enlightened...

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]the defect is they were taught this **** since birth... it's not like these people have a true mental disorder... they just don't know any better since it's what they were taught since they were born... much like the muslims wanted to take out the jews for the holy land... they were taught that since birth so it's second nature, like taking a ****...[/QUOTE]

generalize much?

stating that all muslims want to take out the jews is equivalent to saying that all christians want to take out the homosexuals.

kids these days... sheesh

[QUOTE=RussB]generalize much?

stating that all muslims want to take out the jews is equivalent to saying that all christians want to take out the homosexuals.

kids these days... sheesh[/QUOTE]


when over 50% believes that way, it's not a generalization...

In the Kuran it states to kill any non-followers... The jewish religion is a non-follower, that and they are in the way of the holy land... And I'm talking Islam, not muslim

Have at it Russ

[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7620568248827002361&q=Richard+Dawkins+Virus+of+Faith&hl=en[/url]

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]And I'm talking Islam, not muslim[/QUOTE]
u r seriously the most retarded mother****er i have ever seen.

When will people realize that the Westboro baptist church feeds on publicity and is a scam? [url]http://greensickle.com/2006/07/fred_phelps_may_we_never_see_h.html[/url]

[QUOTE=pj21086]u r seriously the most retarded mother****er i have ever seen.[/QUOTE]


Uhh please explain?
Is it because I was having a brain fart, and a muslim is a person who follows islam?



I know this... please pull foward

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]
Is it because I was having a brain fart, and a muslim is a person who follows islam?
[/QUOTE]

Yes.

You can't attempt to argue something as complex as Islam after screwing up something that basic. Just walk away.

[QUOTE=Salty]Yes.

You can't attempt to argue something as complex as Islam after screwing up something that basic. Just walk away.[/QUOTE]


Meh i put it on here wrong, I knew what I was saying LOL

and I'm not argueing just islam, i'm talking religion, but i'm proving how if taught from birth it will get people to believe immoral things in followings of their "god"

ignorant as ****


Killing innocent people is immoral period, I don't care if you justify it by saying they are "sinners" because they won't follow us... in the scheme of things it's wrong

I just laugh at the ignorance of religion... They literally WON'T listen to the other side period.

Thousands of americans die a day due to cancer, disease, drunk driving, our school systems are a joke, thousands of immigrants come over our borders illegally a day, our country has the biggest debt it has ever had, our country is now more hated then ever before, 3,000 + american soldiers have died in the war in iraq.... But what do they care about?????

Why Sally has Two Dads......


How ****ing stupid

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]
Thousands of americans die a day due to cancer, disease, drunk driving, our school systems are a joke, thousands of immigrants come over our borders illegally a day, our country has the biggest debt it has ever had, our country is now more hated then ever before, 3,000 + american soldiers have died in the war in iraq.... But what do they care about?????

Why Sally has Two Dads......


How ****ing stupid[/QUOTE]

You make it seem like religious people don't complain about all of the above. Name one person that doesn't. I'm not religious. I'm agnostic. I just hate when self-righteous people think their beliefs outweigh the consensus of people that have these stern religious beliefs. Guess what? You and me are outnumbered and you’re going to have to deal with it so long as it's non-violent. Religion in it's basic form isn’t a bad thing, it's the people that make it bad.

<---- 8000

[QUOTE=Salty]<---- 8000[/QUOTE]

/fingerwave

[QUOTE=Salty]You make it seem like religious people don't complain about all of the above. Name one person that doesn't. I'm not religious. I'm agnostic. I just hate when self-righteous people think their beliefs outweigh the consensus of people that have these stern religious beliefs. Guess what? You and me are outnumbered and you’re going to have to deal with it so long as it's non-violent. Religion in it's basic form isn’t a bad thing, it's the people that make it bad.[/QUOTE]


I agree... I have said it before on here that for the most part I don't have a problem with it. IMO it's more organized religion that bothers me

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKt7J1U1Cs8[/url]

Can't watch the video, at work....

I'll watch it when I get home..


See, T-Will from what I can see of you, you are highly religious(just from the fact you have the fish on your car), and I have never once seen you try to push your views on anyone, nor are you very out spoken about religion either. I am 10000% ok with people like you, and I can say religion is good for people like you, but I can't say how many times I have been tried to be converted to Jahouvouvouvs witnesses, Mormonism, catholic, christian and that is were I begin to have problems with religion. I don't get how one religion can claim to be anymore right then ANY form of religion(yes athieism is considered a religion), to me it's ignorant.

The thing with following science based on religion is it is getting updated every second of the day, as every scientist in the world tries to figure out how we got here all the way down to the first molecule. They constantly try to prove themselves wrong. Religion on the other hand was told by a very select few. There was two original religions that all current religions are based on, they have not been updated for thousands of years and are considered "fact". These books were written when the people thought the sun and moon came up from the middle of the ocean from the gods, so to claim these books as "Fact" is also ignorant...

If my sentences are kinda all over the place it's because i'm trying to type this at work and keep getting side tracked

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]Have at it Russ

[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7620568248827002361&q=Richard+Dawkins+Virus+of+Faith&hl=en[/url][/QUOTE]

omgyousawitonintrawebsoithastobetrue.

BTW, i work in a very scientific and technical field. i went to college for a bachelors of science. the whole concept of religion is something that I don't follow. i'm not religious, but i'm not an athiest.

i'm debating you on your statements that religion is what makes people crazy. my opinion is that the religious fanatics that you're *****ing about are already crazy / prejudice / violent / evil / whatever and using their religion of choice to back up that defect.

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]I agree... I have said it before on here that for the most part I don't have a problem with it. IMO it's more organized religion that bothers me[/QUOTE]

What religion isn't organized? Organized religion isn't going away anytime soon.

[QUOTE=pj21086]u r seriously the most retarded mother****er i have ever seen.[/QUOTE]
QFT!

...

religion...or even the belief in god...is soooo bleeding stupid.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church[/url]

bio of the "church"...only has 150 memebers, all are like inbred relatives of phelps.

hella.....dont you go to that church?

[QUOTE=SubyN00by]or even the belief in god...is soooo bleeding stupid.[/QUOTE]

I'll give you religion I guess... But why is the belief in God stupid? You don't have to pray to God every night or even go to church. You can be agnostic which suggests it's impossible to know whether there is a God. I think Atheism - the absolute rejection of the existence of God or higher being - is not only ignorant but impossible, especially in life or death situations. I think the tiny thought or hope that God might exist would come naturally when facing death.

So do you really NOT believe in God?

I don't get it. What are they saying that's wrong or evil? They're quoting bible verses for pete's sake, so what Christian would oppose what's factually referenced? The only question that a true Christian would have is what is the literal interpretation of what's written, or what could have been lost in translation.

To me, beastiality and causing/spreading aids is evil.

If gays followed the rules of this "mean and evil book" there would be no aids.

[QUOTE=Salty]I'll give you religion I guess... But why is the belief in God stupid? You don't have to pray to God every night or even go to church. You can be agnostic which suggests it's impossible to know whether there is a God. I think Atheism - the absolute rejection of the existence of God or higher being - is not only ignorant but impossible, especially in life or death situations. I think the tiny thought or hope that God might exist would come naturally when facing death.

So do you really NOT believe in God?[/QUOTE]
I believe that we are simply blobs of molecules that wonder around aimlessly...looking for something to contradict the fact that when we die...our life ends and there is nothing else...

[QUOTE=SubyN00by]I believe that we are simply blobs of molecules that wonder around aimlessly...looking for something to contradict the fact that when we die...our life ends and there is nothing else...[/QUOTE]

Do you REALLY think this will be your last thought on your deathbed? There's no way, man. My point is religion and the belief in God helps a lot of people cope with death. To say their belief is asinine is the real ignorance.

[QUOTE=Salty]Do you REALLY think this will be your last thought on your deathbed? There's no way, man. My point is Religion and the belief in God helps a lot of people cope with death. To say their belief is asinine is the real ignorance.[/QUOTE]
you said it yourself, it simply helps people cope with death. I myself am not affraid of death. I toy with death all the time, be it in a car, on the side of a building, etc. We have no pre-destined plan for us, there is nothing to look forward to, might as well enjoy what you've got now.

and remember, this is just my opinion, doesn't necessary mean it's the truth or that of anyone else.

[QUOTE=SubyN00by]I toy with death all the time, be it in a car, on the side of a building, etc.[/QUOTE]

Right, and i bet you refuse to wear a seat belt or harness equipment. :rolleyes: Face it, you deny religion because it gives you a sense of control. Because it's cool. Or because you didn't want to attend Sunday school as a child. You know you can't logically deny the possible existence of God. It’s as ignorant as suggesting the world is flat in the 21st century.

[QUOTE=Salty]Right, and i bet you refuse to wear a seat belt or harness equipment. :rolleyes: Face it, you deny religion because it gives you a sense of control. Because it's cool. Or because you didn't want to attend Sunday school as a child. You know you can't logically deny the possible existence of God. It’s as ignorant as suggesting the world is flat in the 21st century.[/QUOTE]
haha, nah, I wear my seat belt, I'm not saying that I'm looking for a way to die. I'm just saying that I'm not affraid of it. If I happen to die when I walk out of my building, I will know that I've had a bomb ass life. Maybe it is a control issue, but I don't believe in god. I was raised in the church, an alterboy on sundays, catecism (sp?) on wednesday nights, praying at night with my grandma before I go to bed, but all the teachings I've received in school, all the science and nature, etc. have provided more hard evidence to prove against a supreme being than for it. I'm most definately a man of cold hard evidence...I need something tangible...and the fact that I can't see or hear or know for sure anything about a "BigBossMan" in the sky...I don't believe it. (=

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]I don't get it. What are they saying that's wrong or evil? They're quoting bible verses for pete's sake, so what Christian would oppose what's factually referenced? The only question that a true Christian would have is what is the literal interpretation of what's written, or what could have been lost in translation.

To me, beastiality and causing/spreading aids is evil.

If gays followed the rules of this "mean and evil book" there would be no aids.[/QUOTE]

Since I don't follow your book, why is it evil or wrong for me to do something that goes against one paragraph in it? Why should I care? Why should [i]YOU[/i] care, since it's not affecting you?

I come not with my word...I come with my sword.

[QUOTE=SubyN00by]haha, nah, I wear my seat belt, I'm not saying that I'm looking for a way to die. I'm just saying that I'm not affraid of it. If I happen to die when I walk out of my building, I will know that I've had a bomb ass life. Maybe it is a control issue, but I don't believe in god. I was raised in the church, an alterboy on sundays, catecism (sp?) on wednesday nights, praying at night with my grandma before I go to bed, but all the teachings I've received in school, all the science and nature, etc. have provided more hard evidence to prove against a supreme being than for it. I'm most definately a man of cold hard evidence...I need something tangible...and the fact that I can't see or hear or know for sure anything about a "BigBossMan" in the sky...I don't believe it. (=[/QUOTE]

Christians aren't afraid of death either. Heck, they had to make suicide a sin to stop people from speedign up the process of going to heaven to hang with the "Big Boss Man." Rejection outright of the possibility of God's existence is as ignorant as claiming God sent a taxi to Heaven in the wake of a comet.

[QUOTE=BAN SUVS]Christians aren't afraid of death either. Heck, they had to make suicide a sin to stop people from speedign up the process of going to heaven to hang with the "Big Boss Man." Rejection outright of the possibility of God's existence is as ignorant as claiming God sent a taxi to Heaven in the wake of a comet.[/QUOTE]
ignorant or not...I don't believe it. What's the justification for there being something above us? a book? an artifact? give me some tangible to deal with

...

[QUOTE=RussB]omgyousawitonintrawebsoithastobetrue.

BTW, i work in a very scientific and technical field. i went to college for a bachelors of science. the whole concept of religion is something that I don't follow. i'm not religious, but i'm not an athiest.

i'm debating you on your statements that religion is what makes people crazy. my opinion is that the religious fanatics that you're *****ing about are already crazy / prejudice / violent / evil / whatever and using their religion of choice to back up that defect.[/QUOTE]

I believe there is three kinds of people in this world.... good.. bad... and moderate... the good will do good regardless of their faith/beliefs... the bad will do bad regardless... and the problem lies in the moderates, the ones who can swing either way, these people will do evil things because they think their belief tells them it's ok, then some will ONLY do good in fear they will go to hell(which to me is still a bad person)

Also what i'm trying to say is that these people might not be so ****ed in the head if they weren't taught religion since they were born. They get preached to what they can and can't do, what they can and can't believe and basically get genocided into believe what their parents tell them. They are to young to think there is other possibilities, if you tell a kid everytime he goes down a slide it's really just a fairy pulling him down, he will believe it and not think twice about it.

For the record, my Dad was a christian my mom was a catholic, both went to church every single sunday. Both of them went to Religious schools all the way through highschool. They both got into trouble at the schools with the nuns because they would question things. My mom would have to write entire sections outa the bible because she QUESTIONED religion, that doesn't seem a little wrong to any of you? the pure fact that kids aren't even allowed to question things without being threatened with eternal damnation... My dad is now an athiest, and my mom is agnostic after getting out of highschool. When I was a kid both of them let me believe what I wanted, and I ended up right around the same time i started not believing in santa claus that maybe there really isn't a man in the sky who snapped his fingers and 7 days later there was us.

I still don't get how religious people can blow off carbon dating like it's a government conspiracy.

There is a fair amount of these people that would be messed in the head regardless just off life experiences that they will experience. The others are messed in the head PURELY because of religion being taught to them so young
[QUOTE=Salty]What religion isn't organized? Organized religion isn't going away anytime soon.[/QUOTE]


You can believe in god, and not be for organized religion, i'm talking about the churches that state you MUST give them a certain percentage of your income, and you MUST do this because god told you to, even though it was never written down anywhere because they just flat out made **** up and preached it in the church. Someone who lives there lives and does the right thing because they think it's the right thing but still believes in god are the model people on how religious people should be IMO.

[QUOTE=Salty]I'll give you religion I guess... But why is the belief in God stupid? You don't have to pray to God every night or even go to church. You can be agnostic which suggests it's impossible to know whether there is a God. I think Atheism - the absolute rejection of the existence of God or higher being - is not only ignorant but impossible, especially in life or death situations. I think the tiny thought or hope that God might exist would come naturally when facing death.

So do you really NOT believe in God?[/QUOTE]

I have been faced with death were i had a 1% chance of survival, I never once looked up and thanked god, i never once thought oh god save me! I'm an athiest through and through, a near death scenario isn't going to change that, but I do get your point. There are "athiest" who act like they don't believe in god, but when they are alone you can catch that very person looking up to the skys. I don't fear death, I am ok to die at any moment. I realized you can't start living your life if you live it in fear of death and what happens to you after you die..

[QUOTE=Salty] I think Atheism - the absolute rejection of the existence of God or higher being - is not only ignorant but impossible[/QUOTE]


uhh... what? How is it ignorant? I'm not saying science has all the answers, any scientist can tell you this, but to say that what you know is fact and athiests are ignorant because it's IMPOSSIBLE for their not to be a good, is beyound ignorant.. Do you have first hand experiences, hard fact, seen god himself...? No your book is written by people who "heard" from god... god came to them and said this and this and this, and they wrote a book about it... How can that be constrewed as fact??? Please that's just retarded man

[QUOTE=GT35 STI].
I still don't get how religious people can blow off carbon dating like it's a government conspiracy.
[/QUOTE]

Huh? Do you think that most Christians think our universe was made in 7 days, or at least 7 human days as we know it? I certainly don't think Christians do. Do you think "a burning bush" in the bible meant that the bush was on fire? The bible is meant to be interpreted, and isn't always literal.

As far as your lack of faith, you've made a decision.. that's all.

[QUOTE=BAN SUVS]Since I don't follow your book, why is it evil or wrong for me to do something that goes against one paragraph in it? Why should I care? Why should [i]YOU[/i] care, since it's not affecting you?[/QUOTE]

Because if you pound your buddy in the pooper and then go do some old fashioned hetero pounding, you're likely contaminating the hetero pool with disease. We're all on the same planet you know.

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Because if you pound your buddy in the pooper and then go do some old fashioned hetero pounding, you're likely contaminating the hetero pool with disease. We're all on the same planet you know.[/QUOTE]

Why do you assume that because I fornicate I am not interested in self-preservation, thus not using condoms?

[QUOTE=BAN SUVS]Why do you assume that because I fornicate I am not interested in self-preservation, thus not using condoms?[/QUOTE]

Read back. I used the words "if" and "likely."

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]The bible is meant to be interpreted, and isn't always literal.
[/QUOTE]
And that is the root of all religious disputes on this planet. It's the fundamental weakness in organized religion. Do you turn the other cheek, or do you take an eye for an eye, my friend? If I choose differently, which of us is wrong? What is the other to do about it?

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Read back. I used the words "if" and "likely."[/QUOTE]

Prejudicial assumptions on your part. That's all you have to base your hate on?

[QUOTE=BAN SUVS]Prejudicial assumptions on your part. That's all you have to base your hate on?[/QUOTE]

Spreading aids and condoning the abominations that cause its spread is hatred against all of humanity. Wake up dude.

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Spreading aids and condoning the abominations that cause it's spread is hatred against all of humanity. Wake up dude.[/QUOTE]

Abominations? Says who?

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]
I have been faced with death were i had a 1% chance of survival, I never once looked up and thanked god, i never once thought oh god save me! I'm an athiest through and through, a near death scenario isn't going to change that, but I do get your point. There are "athiest" who act like they don't believe in god, but when they are alone you can catch that very person looking up to the skys. I don't fear death, I am ok to die at any moment. I realized you can't start living your life if you live it in fear of death and what happens to you after you die..

uhh... what? How is it ignorant? I'm not saying science has all the answers, any scientist can tell you this, but to say that what you know is fact and athiests are ignorant because it's IMPOSSIBLE for their not to be a good, is beyound ignorant.. Do you have first hand experiences, hard fact, seen god himself...? No your book is written by people who "heard" from god... god came to them and said this and this and this, and they wrote a book about it... How can that be constrewed as fact??? Please that's just retarded man[/QUOTE]


My book? I'm NOT religious at all and you're not listening as usual. Who here know what i'm saying besides GT35 STI?

I'm saying that by definition Atheists deny the possible existence of God. It's very POSSIBLE that there isn't a God. But what makes Atheists wrong and ignorant is that they cling to the fact God does not exist when there's really no way anyone can be sure. It's like claiming with absolutely certainty the earth is flat when technology doesn't exist to travel to the corners of our globe.

[QUOTE=Salty]My book? I'm NOT religious at all and you're not listening as usual. Who here know what i'm saying besides GT35 STI?

I'm saying that by definition Atheists deny the possible existence of God. It's very POSSIBLE that there isn't a God. But what makes Atheists wrong and ignorant is that they cling to the fact God does not exist when there's really no way anyone can be sure. It's like claiming with absolutely certainty the earth is flat when technology doesn't exist to travel to the corners of our globe.[/QUOTE]

and religious people cling to the fact that god DOES excist, and their book is "hard fact"... How is that any less ignorant?



[url]http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/[/url]

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]and religious people cling to the fact that god DOES excist, and their book is "hard fact"... How is that any less ignorant?



[url]http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/[/url][/QUOTE]

It's not. Congrats. You get it. ****

How does it feel to be as ignorant as them?

[QUOTE=Salty]It's not. Congrats. You get it. ****

How does it feel to be as ignorant as them?[/QUOTE]

wrong, I'm not as ignorant as them because the difference is Science doesn't claim to be fact, it's called a "theory" for a reason... meanwhile religious people claim their book as fact.... so actually athiest are less ignorant

[QUOTE=BAN SUVS]Abominations? Says who?[/QUOTE]

Says nature, says the virus called aids to stop it. In the absence of religion, evolution and nature will stop such behavior. It's in the design.

If it weren't for humans stopping the natural cycle of the disease, the disease would accomplish its scientific function.

Take religion out of it and think about why aids exists. Now think what would happen if there was no knowledge about how it spread or was started. Only those who act within the rules of nature go unharmed.

If it takes religion to make folks act within the rules of nature, then so be it.

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]wrong, I'm not as ignorant as them because the difference is Science doesn't claim to be fact, it's called a "theory" for a reason... meanwhile religious people claim their book as fact.... so actually athiest are less ignorant[/QUOTE]

Right, but the definition of atheism is absolute meaning those that are atheist claim the non-existence of God to be fact. Atheism does not mean an allegiance to science! here's no two ways around it, man... you are still wrong. What would make your statement more true is if you're talking about someone like me that's not atheist that accepts both as theory (which they are).

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Says nature, says the virus called aids to stop it. [/quote]

HIV didn't come into existence to "stop" homosexuality. It was pure random biological chance that it is more easily spread through anal sex than vaginal. While we're on the subject, what were syphyllis, gonnerhia, herpes, even rabs "designed" to stop, hmm?

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]In the absence of religion, evolution and nature will stop such behavior. It's in the design.[/quote]

How does a faith in Jesus Christ as my savior protect me from disease?

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]If it weren't for humans stopping the natural cycle of the disease, the disease would accomplish its scientific function.[/quote]

The function of any virus or bacteria is to make more viruses or bacterium. Period.

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Take religion out of it and think about why aids exists. [/quote]

Evolution. Do you argue that single-celled organisms aren't even more advanced in their evolution and specializationt han multi-cellular organisms?

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Now think what would happen if there was no knowledge about how it spread or was started. [/quote]

What, like Black Death? Was that a disease created to scrubt he earth of white people?

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Only those who act within the rules of nature go unharmed.[/quote]

Rules of nature? Since peple enjoy anal sex so much, what's "unnatural" about it?

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]If it takes religion to make folks act within the rules of nature, then so be it.[/QUOTE]

:rotfl: Quit using the Lord as an excuse for your bigotry and hatred. He doesn't like it.

[QUOTE=Salty]Right, but the definition of atheism is absolute meaning those that are atheist claim the non-existence of God to be fact. Atheism does not mean an allegiance to science! here's no two ways around it, man... you are still wrong. What would make your statement more true is if you're talking about someone like me that's not atheist that accepts both as theory (which they are).[/QUOTE]

I'm with Eric. I have rejected, in whole or in part, all organized religion I've studied thus far, but I do not naysay the existence of God outright. I simply refuse to believe that human beings can or will truly understand the nature of God. I find it [i]unnatural[/i] for any perty of humans to claim dominion over the rest of us because of what they CHOOSE to believe for themselves. There is no legitimacy in that.

[QUOTE=BAN SUVS]I'm with Eric. I have rejected, in whole or in part, all organized religion I've studied thus far, but I do not naysay the existence of God outright. I simply refuse to believe that human beings can or will truly understand the nature of God. I find it [i]unnatural[/i] for any perty of humans to claim dominion over the rest of us because of what they CHOOSE to believe for themselves. There is no legitimacy in that.[/QUOTE]
but what makes you think there's a god.

I'm being serious now.

[QUOTE=SubyN00by]but what makes you think there's a god.

I'm being serious now.[/QUOTE]

Lack of proof He doesn't exist. I prefer a universe with God in it, I just don't use that desire as the basis of BELIEF.

so it's more of a conversation regarding the amount of proof that god DOES exist...

Personally, i see much more to go against there being a god

[QUOTE=SubyN00by]so it's more of a conversation regarding the amount of proof that god DOES exist...

Personally, i see much more to go against there being a god[/QUOTE]

Such as?

I see the complex relationships between Newtonian physics, astrophysics, and nuclear physics which we are still from from grasping, let alone defining, as being +1 for God. Not to mention genetics and evolution. I see God as the more plausible explanation for our existence than a million monkeys on a million typewriters for a million years creating the works of Shakespeare.

[QUOTE=BAN SUVS]Such as?

I see the complex relationships between Newtonian physics, astrophysics, and nuclear physics which we are still from from grasping, let alone defining, as being +1 for God. Not to mention genetics and evolution. I see God as the more plausible explanation for our existence than a million monkeys on a million typewriters for a million years creating the works of Shakespeare.[/QUOTE]
see, that's where we differ. I see explanations of certain aspects of physics to be a -1 for the existence of a god. I think the fact that we've traveled into space, have seen other planets, have partial evidence of life existence in/on other planets to be a complete argument to there being a god...

I have learned something from this thread, though... Seems that when people say they’re “atheists” they think it means believing in the sciences. Seems logical on the surface but it doesn’t necessarily mean this. That, and it still doesn’t excuse the fact they’re refusing to believe in something (God) that cannot be proven or disproved.

Guess what? You can be religious scientist too! Hindus, Muslims, and especially Jews (etc) had absolutely no problem being religious and having scientific studies! The problem is that Atheists and anti-religious hippies lump all religions into the science vs. religion debate when they should only be focused on european Christianity at the VERY most. It’s just that a ton of these “atheists” have narrow-minded concepts of what it is to be religious.

[QUOTE=SubyN00by]see, that's where we differ. I see explanations of certain aspects of physics to be a -1 for the existence of a god. I think the fact that we've traveled into space, have seen other planets, have partial evidence of life existence in/on other planets to be a complete argument to there being a god...[/QUOTE]

You have a point but only against organized religion. It still does not justify being atheist. There could still be a God even if/when we make radio contact with aliens light-years away. It's like Kevin said... it's just that people here could have never "truly understand the nature of God."

yes, but that's the wonderful thing about nature...there could be...but then again there might not be...I chose the second (=

You can also be a Christian and be against some forms of "organized religions,"(even some intantiations of the Christian church)but let's be realistic. Do you think this planet would be without strife (or with less) in absensce of it? Look at the historic conflicts between religions, and you'll often see human, political, and ethnic/racial conflicts that would have existed without religions attached to each side.

When whites most recently enslaves blacks, was that a religious conflict? What about when the egyptians enslaved the jews? When the islamic religion religion was made up, was it solely racial hatred or just a preserving measure by arabs in a political movement?
What about conflicts on our planet now? Most all of them involve islam, but is "organized religion" the cause, or is islam just a guise (or simply being used) for modern fascism and racial hatred?

Some people are so focused on the ills of organized religion that they've blindly accepted the current islamic view that Iraq is a holy war? I don't buy it.

Is this political/ racial/ or the fault of organized religion?
[url]http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/[/url]

[QUOTE=Salty]Right, but the definition of atheism is absolute meaning those that are atheist claim the non-existence of God to be fact. Atheism does not mean an allegiance to science! here's no two ways around it, man... you are still wrong. What would make your statement more true is if you're talking about someone like me that's not atheist that accepts both as theory (which they are).[/QUOTE]


What exactly am I wrong about again?? I'm pretty sure im explaining why religion is ****ing retarded, which this argument really has nothing about since we are so side tracked now...


I accept both of them as theories also, i just believe science alot more then I believe someone who wrote something thousands of years ago when people thought the sun came outa the ocean...

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]You can also be a Christian and be against some forms of "organized religions,"(even some intantiations of the Christian church)but let's be realistic. Do you think this planet would be without strife (or with less) in absensce of it?[/quote]
Without strife? No. With less strife? 100% certainty. Human conflict on a large scale boils down to power, money, fear, or BELIEF. Which of those is leading people to walk into bus stations with C4 vests?

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Look at the historic conflicts between religions, and you'll often see human, political, and ethnic/racial conflicts that would have existed without religions attached to each side. [/quote]
Of course. But you're using the "everybody else is doing it, why can't we?" excuse. Especially given that it's a recent development in human history that there was any seperation between politics and religion.

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]When whites most recently enslaves blacks, was that a religious conflict?[/quote]
Not relevant. Other causes of strife do not lessen or excuse using a belief in God and the teachings of major western religions to make war on those who do not worship identically, or at all.

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]What about when the egyptians enslaved the jews?[/quote]
There's no proof that even happened outside of the Old Testament. And I still don't see what that has to do with people killing in the name of their God elsewhere.

[QUOTE=HellaDumb] When the islamic religion religion was made up, was it solely racial hatred or just a preserving measure by arabs in a political movement?[/quote]
The roots of Islam are nearly identical to the roots of Christianity. I don't see your point, other than you are denying the legitimacy of the Prophet and his followers to preserve the legitimacy of your own faith.

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]What about conflicts on our planet now?[/quote]
They boil down to money, power, fear or faith.

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Most all of them involve islam, but is "organized religion" the cause, or is islam just a guise (or simply being used) for modern fascism and racial hatred?[/quote]
If there was no organized religion, could it be used as an excuse for carrying out war in God's name? Can not your own faith, with no extraordinary effort on the part of the faithful, be used to justify war, bigotry and hatred? You are still trying to claim superiority of your own faith over all others and I don't think you even realize it. Don't blame Islam for the world's problems without acknowledging that the exact same tools can be misused in Christianity.

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Some people are so focused on the ills of organized religion that they've blindly accepted the current islamic view that Iraq is a holy war? I don't buy it.[/quote]
A powerful Christian nation waltzes into a longstanding Islam nation and forces radical changes using military strength. What the hell is so wrong about feeling like Islam is being attacked if you believe in the writings of the Quran?

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Is this political/ racial/ or the fault of organized religion?
[url]http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/[/url][/QUOTE]
I know nothing of that site other than what I gathered with a brief glance. I can say that it doesn't really matter, because in the end what goes on that site or doesn't comes down to the decisions of the person(s) running it. I would bet that there is little material contained therein that supports a counter-argument to the site administration's positions. It's propaganda. to answer your question... yes, no, and essentially yes. Either the site admin's organized faith leads him to attack the [i]followeres[/i] of Islam, or Islam itself.

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]What exactly am I wrong about again?? I'm pretty sure im explaining why religion is ****ing retarded, [/quote]

You just explained why you are as ignorant as the people you are attacking. You are makign an absolute claim that cannot be either proven or disproven by any rational discourse. You are EXACTLY like the people you disdain so much. You're a pot calling kettles black.

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]What exactly am I wrong about again??[/QUOTE]

you can't call organized religion retarded and then say with absolute conviction that there is no god. there is no definiative proof that he/she exitsts or does not exist. beleiving absolutley that god does not exist is the exact same as beleiving absolutley that god does exist.

i for one do not beleive in god.....but that is my opinion, it is not a fact that i am forcing upon other people. i mainly choose not to beleive in god because people like helladumb and the biblethumpers disgust me. the perversity of the way that people use religion to force veiws on others around the world has completley disenchanted me, and in my opinion ruined my "faith".

oh and helladumb, i am also angered by fear mongering islam radicals, so don't call me a terrorist lover just because i said you and your "facts" enrage me....

i also feel that as long as there is organized religion there will always be those who use people's faith to push their own personal agendas using religion. i feel that we need a new "great schism" to shakedown the system, at least in christianity",and modernize religion. christianity along with islam need to change some of their views if religion is ever going to get along with the scientific community in this day and age.

Well, in communist countries you're forced to worship your nation... y'all prefer that? It works in China ;)

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Well, in communist countries you're forced to worship your nation... y'all prefer that? It works in China ;)[/QUOTE]

Damn... I guess I got served. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Well, in communist countries you're forced to worship your nation... y'all prefer that? It works in China ;)[/QUOTE]

maybe i would.....at least then "god" wouldnt be telling my leader what was moral and amoral

[QUOTE=spedmunki]maybe i would.....at least then "god" wouldnt be telling my leader what was moral and amoral[/QUOTE]

You'd prefer a feeble man to control your destiny than your creator? That's insane!

as far as im concerned my creators are my parents

[QUOTE=spedmunki]as far as im concerned my creators are my parents[/QUOTE]
plus juan...

oh ya...cant forget juan

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]You'd prefer a feeble man to control your destiny than your creator? That's insane![/QUOTE]

That would depend on one's opinion of his creator.

[QUOTE=GT35 STI]What exactly am I wrong about again?? I'm pretty sure im explaining why religion is ****ing retarded, which this argument really has nothing about since we are so side tracked now...[/QUOTE]
So anarchy isn't retarded? What would poeple have done without religon in the last 5000 years? What moral compass do you have? What historical, organizational, or technological development, can you name that was not based on religous, philosophical or or national idealistic competition? If your stupid enough to believe that crap than maybe it's what some people need to keep them headed in the right path. Like whatever other clear thinking individual in this thread stated, it's not specific to the religon, it's the interpretation of the practicioner. You obviousley have a deep seeded hatred of people of faith, especially christians.

The idea of 'do unto others' precedes modern religion. It's based more in philosophy than a belief in a higher power. I contend that humans are inately driven to take care of each other, but we're highly volitile and emotional. If religion keeps those of us who act on emotion in line, great, just don't put it in my face.
I treat others with the same respect that I feel I desearve from others because logically it's the right thing to do. It's along the lines of John Nash stuff and also utilitarianism. If everyone did what was best for most of the people most of the time, we'd all be perfectly happy. There's no need for a higher power to send down proper morals, it's what we all should do because it makes sense.
But like I said, if it takes going to a building once a week and sprinkling water on babies to get people to do that, that's fine with me; just don't call me amoral because my morals are derived from logic instead of stone tablets.

[QUOTE=spedmunki]as far as im concerned my creators are my parents[/QUOTE]

Do you have kids? I'd bet you don't, because having kids is likely enough to make you believe in a higher power.......... or some pretty complex dirt that evolved into humans ;).

[QUOTE=MVWRX]There's no need for a higher power to send down proper morals, it's what we all should do because it makes sense.[/QUOTE]

Funny how morals usually parallel the 10 commandments ;).

[QUOTE=MVWRX] I contend that humans are inately driven to take care of each other, but we're highly volitile and emotional. If religion keeps those of us who act on emotion in line, great, just don't put it in my face.[/QUOTE]

Werd. As long as you keep it to yourself and knock on my door, it's all good. You can pray to the green witch and the wood faeries for all I care, just don't expect me to believe it.

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Funny how morals usually parallel the 10 commandments ;).[/QUOTE]
Weren't there originally like 600 commandments though? Who knows how the context and translation could have been altered.

[QUOTE=HellaDumb]Funny how morals usually parallel the 10 commandments ;).[/QUOTE]

My whole contention is that the morals predate the commandments. We know this, since the same basic morals are written in various philosophical pieces from before the Old Testament. The morals are there without the stone tablets, but for some people having something/one tell them what to do works better.

[QUOTE=MVWRX]The idea of 'do unto others' precedes modern religion.[/QUOTE]
Kinda, but not really. I take it you havn't read the code of Hammurabi? lol ;)

[QUOTE=VIBEELEVEN]Kinda, but not really. I take it you havn't read the code of Hammurabi? lol ;)[/QUOTE]

That's one example. I take it you haven't read any of the Greek philosopher's essays on morality and character?

[QUOTE=VIBEELEVEN] I take it you havn't read the code of Hammurabi? [/QUOTE]

I was thinking, and actually the code of Hammurabi is proof that morals did exist before the old testament. If you steal from someone, there was a penalty. In the code it was getting your hand cut off. In the bible it's going to hell. Same principle...be good or else.

[QUOTE=MVWRX]...be good or else.[/QUOTE]
Indeed, ths principle has been in existence since the earliests forms of society one may wish to call "society." The differences are in the penalties and the definition of being "good."

Thou shalt be smited, infadel! [/shakes fist] :p