[QUOTE=Unregistered]...In the past it was done naturally. But now it is at a faster rate than ever before because of us. That is a concern most individuals have, including myself.[/QUOTE]

Look at the graph from right to left, which represents time from about 400K years ago to 1999.
Trace the black line, which represents ppm of CO2.
Notice how the line has a fairly consistant pattern.
CO2 is not rising at a faster rate today than 100K years ago.


[QUOTE=Unregistered]So looking at this issues and seeing how we can change them is not a negative thing. We are killing our planet, not just air pollution, and if we want several generations down the line to have this as a major problem the best thing to do now is to face these issues.[/QUOTE]

This is another matter.
The term "killing our planet" is a bit alarmist; human contribution is analogous to a butterfly fart in a hurricane.

Being a capitalist that works in an old school industry, I can tell you that the laws are so tight, that fines are so steep, that it's far cheaper for me to use "green" products in our manufacturing processes. Yes, they cost more on the front end, but disposal is virtually nil.

For example:

1 rattle bomb of glossy paint: $1.97
Disposal cost of empty can: $5.00

I don't use spray cans anymore.
And I enjoy the fact that I'm lowering my impact on the environment.

It's funny, when I lived in Mill Valley, I remember seeing all thes granola crunchers driving their POS rustbuckets around with "Save Mother Earth" stickers holding their fenders on.

Matters not, cause when it comes to the environment: Democrats good, Republicans bad.

[QUOTE=FUNKED1]I surrender, global socialism is the only answer.[/QUOTE]

We have a winner!!!! ahahah LOL.

Anyway, the same people who'll be rallying against global warming are the same ones running catless subies... like alluded to above /\ /\ /\ ;)

[QUOTE=Oaf]
This is another matter.
The term "killing our planet" is a bit alarmist; human contribution is analogous to a butterfly fart in a hurricane.

Being a capitalist that works in an old school industry, I can tell you that the laws are so tight, that fines are so steep, that it's far cheaper for me to use "green" products in our manufacturing processes. Yes, they cost more on the front end, but disposal is virtually nil.

For example:

1 rattle bomb of glossy paint: $1.97
Disposal cost of empty can: $5.00

I don't use spray cans anymore.
And I enjoy the fact that I'm lowering my impact on the environment.

It's funny, when I lived in Mill Valley, I remember seeing all thes granola crunchers driving their POS rustbuckets around with "Save Mother Earth" stickers holding their fenders on.

Matters not, cause when it comes to the environment: Democrats good, Republicans bad.[/QUOTE]

Well put, Paul.

Could you provide us with a link that supports what you are saying. I really find this intresting stuff, and even though im a liberal, I hate hippies. So could you keep going with what you are saying?

And yes well put.

[QUOTE=Unregistered]Could you provide us with a link that supports what you are saying. I really find this intresting stuff, and even though im a liberal, I hate hippies. So could you keep going with what you are saying?

And yes well put.[/QUOTE]

I can't provide a link for the disposal costs, I just sign the invoices.
CAL EPA rule book is the biggest book I've ever seen and our corporate remediation gurus are simply amazed at the shear numbers of laws cover "hazmat" in California.
It took us 5 years to get Placer County to finally sign off on our environmental permits, and we're a small (60 people/50K square feet) company.

Google Cal EPA fines, rules, etc. for answers.

Contrary to the popular myth, which is spread by our resident foul-tempered potty mouth, conservatives & capitalists favor protecting the environment as much as anyone.
Why?
Because we make lot's of money using natural resources & by avoiding the stiff fines imposed on us that don't follow the rules.

Oaf

First off

never said **** about conservativies or capitalists.. I said right wingers...

2nd

Never said ALL right wingers..


3rd i could give a flying **** about pollution from my cat less cars..


4th i never once preached green anything for ****s sake i got a ****ing sticker on my damn car that says

WARM THE GLOBE

you think im a ****ing green?

[img]http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/450/g302_450.jpeg[/img]

[QUOTE=Salty]The relationship between conservatives and the inability to care for the environment is one of the most groundless claims ever.[/QUOTE]

It's more about priority than ability.

Personally, I don't do much to help the environment. I litter whenever I can, am catless, throw all of my cans and glass bottles in the garbage....and I'm middle-of-the-road politically.

I don't believe in global warming just so I can get under folks' skin.

Lastly, I think that what 1Regu says about 40 years for cfc's to reach the ozone...I have no earthly idea but if it were true, I'd imagine that maybe it's because cfc's have a higher molecular weight. I dunno.

[QUOTE=Oaf]
Because we make lot's of money using natural resources & by avoiding the stiff fines imposed on us that don't follow the rules.[/QUOTE]

But, if I'm not mistaken, don't we make just as much, if not more money by 'raping' natural resources and doing everything possible to avoid and bend the rules?

I've seen different scientific arguments on both sides of the global warming issue, but putting that aside, we have to realize that sooner or later, population growth will cause a lack of natural resources (incl. air and water)- and just like any closed biological population, we will eventually reach a point where our wastes overwhelm our resources- and population growth ceases- Yeah, I know we'll get there no matter how we treat the planet. But to maximize the time our species thrives on this planet (which, as I see it, should be a priority of human kind), I think certain concessions should be made and everything possible should be done to preserve the environment. I don't mean we should keep water from farmers for a year to preserve an endangered minnow species- but on a larger, international scale, people should be aware and efforts should be made.

I'm sure there's some of both (how you put it and how I put it) going on in various places. The key is making a set of rules that adequately protect the environment while avoiding a drastic impact on production/profits, and finding a way to make sure everyone is playing by the same rules. Going back to Funked's sarcastic 'worldwide socialism' solution- I think he's on the right track, just not quite;). We need a standard, international agreement with standard, disinterested supervision and inpections. I know- this would cost $$$, and we all know the US would probably end up being shamed into footing the bill. But however it's paid for- I think that's the direction we need to head.

[QUOTE=gpatmac]Personally, I don't do much to help the environment. I litter whenever I can, am catless, throw all of my cans and glass bottles in the garbage....and I'm middle-of-the-road politically.

[/QUOTE]

I know you're just trying to rile up us tree-huggers- but I've got a question: Do you do these things out of laziness and lack of concern, or do you just like to spite the efforts of hippies nationwide? :D

Sorry, but this is the exact kind of lack of respect that I think Dre was hiitting on. I don't care where you see yourself politically- if you had a drip of liberal blood in you you would realize how ignorant this statement makes you sound.

Spite.

Being liberal doesn't detract from my ability to loathe liberals nor conservatives. I'm not even really middle of the road, really. For instance, I'm a huge fan of the Swedish political system. Their system and/or leading party is called Social Democracy.

Even though my ideals are aligned in a lot of ways with their system, I still picture that there are a lot of men holding hands and hemp usage...I hate Swedes. You know, I'd let my daughter marry a man of any race, except for a Swede.

Just because someone's liberal about one issue, doesn't mean that they couldn't be ultra-conservative about another, right? Are there any limp-wristed tree-hugging, granola-eating folks who are adamant 2nd amendment zealots? Are there any religious right who are pole smokers? Are there any Anti-war hippies that are biggots?

Further, have you ever heard George Carlin's monologue about mother earth, Gaia, and why she created mankind? She had a burning urge for some styrofoam and plastic to be buried in her, so she created man. THEN when she felt that she had enough plastic and no longer needed man's assistance, she created an deadly, incurable virus that was spread via man's most beloved pastime, sex. Ingenious!

Sorta makes sense, no?

i like to pimp *****es..

[QUOTE=scoobsport98]It's more about priority than ability.[/QUOTE]

You know who lacks in priority? Black people and White trash. They never take priority in responsibility or finding work. See how it sounds that way too?

i think this is silly....the whole idea, not just global warming but the politics threads in the i-club "yeah lets all fight because we can!" people in general are so thick headed about issues like this, nobodys mind will actualy be changed at all by any of it, and politicians dont look for sites like this to try to change their own minds so were pretty much just fighting for no reason

but damn aint it fun!

i totaly have to agree with oaf on this....we arent heating up the earth any faster than it has before, that graph he posted was on a very large scale, if it were a smaller scale graph you'd see smaller and much more rapid changes fluctuations in temperature and co2 levels and such that are no different than what is being observed now, i was scared about global warming and i did some research and theres really nothing to worry about, goddamn stupid humans who always think they are the only cause of anything

no offence to anyone...thats just my two cents