Italy ain't messin' around (and France & UK now)
07-31-2005, 02:29 PM
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Italy ain't messin' around (and France & UK now)
ITALY has banned Islamic burqas under tough terrorism laws that provide two-year jail terms and E2000 ($3200) fines for anyone caught covering their face in a public place.
The counter-terrorism package, passed by Italy's parliament yesterday, doubles the existing penalty for wearing a burqa or chador -- traditional robes worn by Muslim women to cover their faces -- or full-faced helmets or balaclavas in public.
Police can extract DNA samples without a suspect's consent, detain them for 24 hours without a lawyer present, and deport foreigners suspected of terrorism under the new legislation. Soldiers involved in counter-terrorism have been given the same stop-and-search powers.
The counter-terrorism package, passed by Italy's parliament yesterday, doubles the existing penalty for wearing a burqa or chador -- traditional robes worn by Muslim women to cover their faces -- or full-faced helmets or balaclavas in public.
Police can extract DNA samples without a suspect's consent, detain them for 24 hours without a lawyer present, and deport foreigners suspected of terrorism under the new legislation. Soldiers involved in counter-terrorism have been given the same stop-and-search powers.
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07-31-2005, 08:57 PM
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Europe is always the first to complain about the USA even though they are always the first to steal rights and **** with civil liberties beyond what we ever could. France is currently trying to boot Imam's who incite terrorism, even to the point of stripping them of their citizenship.
08-05-2005, 08:58 AM
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Now the UK is following suit.
U.K. Institutes New Deportation Measures
http://www.comcast.net/news/index.js...05/194668.html
Does anyone have anything to say about these actions in Europe? Or is it acceptable because it's Europe? 
U.K. Institutes New Deportation Measures
http://www.comcast.net/news/index.js...05/194668.html
LONDON - Foreigners who preach hatred, sponsor violence or belong to extremist groups could be deported from Britain under strict new measures that Prime Minister Tony Blair announced Friday, nearly a month after suicide bombers killed 52 people on London's transit system.
Membership in extremist Islamic groups such as Hizb-ut-Tahrir would become a crime under the new measures. The group, which advocates the creation of an Islamic state in Central Asia, already is outlawed in several countries.
Blair said the government also would compile a list of Web sites, bookshops and centers that incite hatred and violence. British nationals involved with such organizations could face strict penalties. Foreign nationals could be deported, he said.
Membership in extremist Islamic groups such as Hizb-ut-Tahrir would become a crime under the new measures. The group, which advocates the creation of an Islamic state in Central Asia, already is outlawed in several countries.
Blair said the government also would compile a list of Web sites, bookshops and centers that incite hatred and violence. British nationals involved with such organizations could face strict penalties. Foreign nationals could be deported, he said.
08-05-2005, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Salty
Now the UK is following suit.
U.K. Institutes New Deportation Measures
http://www.comcast.net/news/index.js...05/194668.html
Does anyone have anything to say about these actions in Europe? Or is it acceptable because it's Europe?
U.K. Institutes New Deportation Measures
http://www.comcast.net/news/index.js...05/194668.html
Does anyone have anything to say about these actions in Europe? Or is it acceptable because it's Europe?
You probably don't believe me and think I'm being hypocritical to my uber-left P.C. views
, but I'd say we need the same thing here, to a certain point, just as to not be oblivious to people holding strong views and preaching violence against americans IN america. It's not like they're gonna ship off every protester, but if there is any hint of organized anti-american activism with intent and means to do harm, there should be a way for us as a country to get them off our soil and reduce any chances they may have to carry out any plans.
08-05-2005, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by salty
Does anyone have anything to say about these actions in Europe? Or is it acceptable because it's Europe?
As far as I know, no nation besides the united states is bound by our constitution. Why? Do you have a problem with this, Salty?
Edited for salty's satisfaction.
Last edited by lojasmo; 08-06-2005 at 06:56 PM.
08-05-2005, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Salty
Europe is always the first to complain about the USA even though they are always the first to steal rights and **** with civil liberties beyond what we ever could. France is currently trying to boot Imam's who incite terrorism, even to the point of stripping them of their citizenship.
Again with the sloppy language.
08-05-2005, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by lojasmo
It's unacceptable here because it's contrary to the constitution upon which the United States is founded.
Based on which amendment? Free speech nor freedom of religion does not apply under these circumstances. Google Professor Ali Al-Timimi and get back to me on how you're clearly wrong. His crime was not any act of terrorism or violence. We put him away for life recently because his jaws wouldn't stop flapping.
08-05-2005, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by lojasmo
It's unacceptable here because it's contrary to the constitution upon which the United States is founded.
As far as I know, no nation besides the united states is bound by our constitution. Why? Do you have a problem with this, Salty?
As far as I know, no nation besides the united states is bound by our constitution. Why? Do you have a problem with this, Salty?
...nothing against the patriot act, it just takes integrity from the constitution.
...and anyone with a brain should be able to realize that european countries can do this more easily and with less scrutiny, because they arent the beacon of freedom, equality, and justice that America supposedly is. I have to say that it is unfortunate that we must live up to this in every circumstance or face the 'wrath' of the ACLU, etc., who are quick to label any withholding of rights as rampant facism.
Last edited by scoobsport98; 08-05-2005 at 10:34 AM.
08-05-2005, 10:36 AM
#12
sigh. how do you juggle our personal rights with the need to police & ensure the overall safety of the country?
i do like the resolve of the italian & english governments though.
i do like the resolve of the italian & english governments though.
08-05-2005, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by doughboy
sigh. how do you juggle our personal rights with the need to police & ensure the overall safety of the country?
08-05-2005, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by doughboy
sigh. how do you juggle our personal rights with the need to police & ensure the overall safety of the country?
It's really as cut and dry as this. And there's no problems or domino effect to be considered for other religions. If they were to incite their anti-American version of "jihad" then we deport their asses or lock them up (if they cannot be deported) post haste. The problem is no other religions have the tendency to do this on Western soil so civil rights activists confuse these zero tolerance actions as American bigotry and bulliness towards potential jihadists (Muslims).
Thing is, deaths threats have always been punishable. If you're the root of hatred and decide to open your mouth about it in public you better be willing to handle the consequences.
08-05-2005, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Salty
Simple. You do what Italy is doing and what France and the UK are trying to do. Or you lock them up for life and throw away the key like America has done. You have zero tolerance for radical Imam's, other radical Islamic leaders and their followers. By kicking them out of the country you take out the key element of them not being able to attack us on our soil. Seems worth it, doesn't it? These are changing times and we have to adjust accordingly. Sucks that it has to be this way but it's not our doing in the first place.
It's really as cut and dry as this. And there's no problems or domino effect to be considered for other religions. If they were to incite their anti-American version of "jihad" then we deport their asses or lock them up (if they cannot be deported) post haste. The problem is no other religions have the tendency to do this on Western soil so civil rights activists confuse these zero tolerance actions as American bigotry and bulliness towards potential jihadists (Muslims).
Thing is, deaths threats have always been punishable. If you're the root of hatred and decide to open your mouth about it in public you better be willing to handle the consequences.
It's really as cut and dry as this. And there's no problems or domino effect to be considered for other religions. If they were to incite their anti-American version of "jihad" then we deport their asses or lock them up (if they cannot be deported) post haste. The problem is no other religions have the tendency to do this on Western soil so civil rights activists confuse these zero tolerance actions as American bigotry and bulliness towards potential jihadists (Muslims).
Thing is, deaths threats have always been punishable. If you're the root of hatred and decide to open your mouth about it in public you better be willing to handle the consequences.
Not everyone fits the mold you would like them for the sake of your argument, which is flimsy at best.
Supporting civil rights and combating terror aren't mutually exclusive - you CAN have a balance between the two, no matter what you may say or believe.
Last edited by scoobsport98; 08-05-2005 at 11:18 AM.