05 STI predictions
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Subaru produces a publication in the US called "Drive" that they ship out to US STi owners. The latest issue is titled "Learning Curves - WRX STi Training".
It says that "Subaru has plans to import 3,200 WRX STi models per year".
I think initial demand allowed them to sell more (plus a little price gouging - AKA list price). Now that demand has dropped and the winter is coming, I beleive less will be imported. Once spring of 2004 hits, it would be smart to import more again. 10% of WRX sales should be a good mix for the STi...
It says that "Subaru has plans to import 3,200 WRX STi models per year".
I think initial demand allowed them to sell more (plus a little price gouging - AKA list price). Now that demand has dropped and the winter is coming, I beleive less will be imported. Once spring of 2004 hits, it would be smart to import more again. 10% of WRX sales should be a good mix for the STi...
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Ottawa Ontario
Car Info: not a subie
a subaru dealership I was at in toronto said sales were down across the board there this year, as well as his contacts from other dealers of other makes were reporting the same thing.
My mechanic here in ottawa has told me that one of the local import tuning garages has seen a lot less business this year.
Just before winter usually isn't too great a time to buy cars I think for the wealthy buyer, so I think the last few 04 STIs in the 2 lots I've seen will sit a little longer, however, for the smart buyer looking for a deal (and fewer options) the market is open
I think the first winter with the STI will be a good test, next year who knows, the demand may increase here in canada for STIs just through word of mouth. I think the trial here for a car is how well it performs in winter (and how fast it starts rusting with all the salting that's done).
I don't think subaru will have too much of a problem selling 05 STIs when they come.
Especially, since the EVOs are only moving into canada with VERY few numbers from what I hear from the mitsu dealership... The sales rep said only 3 or 4 are going to each dealer next year, you either buy it or you don't, no test drive. I hardly think they'll do that for a car that I think is being priced around the same as the STI, but who knows, mitsu's been really testing the market up here in the last year and a half.
My mechanic here in ottawa has told me that one of the local import tuning garages has seen a lot less business this year.
Just before winter usually isn't too great a time to buy cars I think for the wealthy buyer, so I think the last few 04 STIs in the 2 lots I've seen will sit a little longer, however, for the smart buyer looking for a deal (and fewer options) the market is open
I think the first winter with the STI will be a good test, next year who knows, the demand may increase here in canada for STIs just through word of mouth. I think the trial here for a car is how well it performs in winter (and how fast it starts rusting with all the salting that's done).
I don't think subaru will have too much of a problem selling 05 STIs when they come.
Especially, since the EVOs are only moving into canada with VERY few numbers from what I hear from the mitsu dealership... The sales rep said only 3 or 4 are going to each dealer next year, you either buy it or you don't, no test drive. I hardly think they'll do that for a car that I think is being priced around the same as the STI, but who knows, mitsu's been really testing the market up here in the last year and a half.
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Let me try:
1) keep u away from your chiropractor
2) Make the ride a LOT more street compliant, since 99% of us are not buying this car for racing/competition...
1) keep u away from your chiropractor
2) Make the ride a LOT more street compliant, since 99% of us are not buying this car for racing/competition...
Originally posted by meisnerboy
Please explain Subaru's rationale because it is very un-understandable to me.
Please explain Subaru's rationale because it is very un-understandable to me.
Last edited by amdmaxx; Oct 26, 2003 at 08:23 AM.
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Originally posted by amdmaxx
Let me try:
1) keep u away from your chiropractor
2) Make the ride a LOT more street compliant, since 99% of us are not buying this car for racing/competition...
Let me try:
1) keep u away from your chiropractor
2) Make the ride a LOT more street compliant, since 99% of us are not buying this car for racing/competition...
Some people want a race car WITH the ride of a Cadillac. That is just not gonna happen folks.
Why not reserve the STi for the race car and the wrx for the Caddy ride???
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 113
Car Info: Blue STi +Red del Sol VTEC
How many times does the handling need to be brought up the EVO does like 1-2mph faster in slalom and .05g's better on the skidpad. You will never feel this difference on the street in fact to stiff a suspension makes for a bad handling street car because our roads are not manicured race tracks but pothole filled ****. On the racetrack a VERY GOOD DRIVER will see the small difference on the track but the STi will still outperform on the track like i've seen almost everywhere because handling advantage is so small the low end torque to pull out of the corners and the sheer power on the straights makes the STi win 90% of the time. STi's handling can be upped a little by putting 235's like the evo on it then the difference is almost maded up anyway.
Example the S2000 handles better on the track by a large margin over the 350Z but the Z's power and stillgood handling make it a pretty even race between the 2 cars.
Also the S2000 is right now the best handling car on a track you can buy for a realistic amount of money as experienced and i've heard the same from many seasoned racers but it's numbers in individual tests slalom skidpad are worse thean the STi's but an S2K in strictly handling will eat an EVO on the race track.
Example the S2000 handles better on the track by a large margin over the 350Z but the Z's power and stillgood handling make it a pretty even race between the 2 cars.
Also the S2000 is right now the best handling car on a track you can buy for a realistic amount of money as experienced and i've heard the same from many seasoned racers but it's numbers in individual tests slalom skidpad are worse thean the STi's but an S2K in strictly handling will eat an EVO on the race track.
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I forgot about this thread...but basically InsaneSTi said it all! ^^
The EVO is slightly faster in corners on a track only, and by the slimmest of margins. It has a slightly better skidpad figure too than a stock STi but same size tires would fix that. In the end though how many of you race around skidpads or track your car enough for it to matter. On the streets where 99% of these cars and owners will live & thrive, the STi is the winner by a far margin overall. Its the most liveable for daily driving and under most US street conditions.
Besides for those who really want a track monster one would be looking at a used Miata as they are cheap, easy to fix-up/repair following the inevitable track blemish, plentiful (parts) and handle extremely well when setup. The motors cabe tuned to make enough HP to equal an EVO or STi's power to weight ratio.
The biggest thing the VEO has on the STi is that it costs less by a few grand, it comes with a radio and the 4G63 motor has been around for nearly two decades so folks know it can be modded to nearly twice its stock output. The STi 2.5L will require time to prove its durability & longevity.
- Janq
The EVO is slightly faster in corners on a track only, and by the slimmest of margins. It has a slightly better skidpad figure too than a stock STi but same size tires would fix that. In the end though how many of you race around skidpads or track your car enough for it to matter. On the streets where 99% of these cars and owners will live & thrive, the STi is the winner by a far margin overall. Its the most liveable for daily driving and under most US street conditions.
Besides for those who really want a track monster one would be looking at a used Miata as they are cheap, easy to fix-up/repair following the inevitable track blemish, plentiful (parts) and handle extremely well when setup. The motors cabe tuned to make enough HP to equal an EVO or STi's power to weight ratio.
The biggest thing the VEO has on the STi is that it costs less by a few grand, it comes with a radio and the 4G63 motor has been around for nearly two decades so folks know it can be modded to nearly twice its stock output. The STi 2.5L will require time to prove its durability & longevity.
- Janq
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Off topic...
Consumer Reports rated 9 Sporty Cars in 2003:
The WRX rated 2nd. Mitsubishi Eclipse rated last.
Consumer reports rated 12 Upscale Sedans in 2003:
The Mitsubishi Diamante rated last.
For the Small Sedans category, the Lancer LS rated 12th.
Could the EVO be the first of new and improved Mitsubishis?
Edit: The ratings are Overall Ratings and do not include Reliability ratings...
The WRX rated 2nd. Mitsubishi Eclipse rated last.
Consumer reports rated 12 Upscale Sedans in 2003:
The Mitsubishi Diamante rated last.
For the Small Sedans category, the Lancer LS rated 12th.
Could the EVO be the first of new and improved Mitsubishis?
Edit: The ratings are Overall Ratings and do not include Reliability ratings...
Last edited by peczenij; Oct 28, 2003 at 07:17 PM.
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DSM reliability is a good point. It has been not good.
The thing that wins me over to the evo is Shiv's comment. He says the EVO is NOT a Mitsubishi in any sence of the word. He says it is very robust and built by Ralliart.
Also, the EVO has (it seems, though I need to check on more international boards) a very good reputation for reliability world wide.
YMMV of course.
(As always, I'm not trying to pimp the evo or denegrate the STi but just have an open friendly discussion)
The thing that wins me over to the evo is Shiv's comment. He says the EVO is NOT a Mitsubishi in any sence of the word. He says it is very robust and built by Ralliart.
Also, the EVO has (it seems, though I need to check on more international boards) a very good reputation for reliability world wide.
YMMV of course.
(As always, I'm not trying to pimp the evo or denegrate the STi but just have an open friendly discussion)
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Originally posted by meisnerboy
DSM reliability is a good point. It has been not good.
The thing that wins me over to the evo is Shiv's comment. He says the EVO is NOT a Mitsubishi in any sence of the word. He says it is very robust and built by Ralliart.
Also, the EVO has (it seems, though I need to check on more international boards) a very good reputation for reliability world wide.
YMMV of course.
(As always, I'm not trying to pimp the evo or denegrate the STi but just have an open friendly discussion)
DSM reliability is a good point. It has been not good.
The thing that wins me over to the evo is Shiv's comment. He says the EVO is NOT a Mitsubishi in any sence of the word. He says it is very robust and built by Ralliart.
Also, the EVO has (it seems, though I need to check on more international boards) a very good reputation for reliability world wide.
YMMV of course.
(As always, I'm not trying to pimp the evo or denegrate the STi but just have an open friendly discussion)
Just be sure to double check your flame insurance.
But seriously the EVO is rebuilt by the RalliArt folks but as I understand it only in the shell and drivetrain dept. Its final assembly is still handled by Mitsu. Some EVO expert here will I'm sure double check me for accuracy & verification.
The STi is similar same though its taken as a body in white from the Subaru to the STi assembly plant and it entire final assy. is handled in one point. Though the workers are Subaru guys.
The Ralliart/STi thing really comes down to design & development, less so much final assembly. Again as I understand it.
I've talked to a few international folks about the STi and EVO including just two hours ago a good long chat with an Aussie who has owned both (AUS STi and EVO ver 4) and he says that the EVO'd historically have been solid. But when I pressed him for more definition of that, he then conceded that it was solid in so far as the engine, something no one with half a wit would doubt.
But an engine does not a whole car make.
Speaking only od US market DSM's, they have had a terrible build quality and consumer satisfaction rating for greater than a decade. In fact I don't think they have ever actually had a decent much less 'good' rating. I'm not tlaking EVO here as this is year one. I'm talking _all_ Mitsubishi products as a whole. Large numbers of folks have problems with evrtyhtng including electrical, body rust, build quality, materials, short & long term drivetrain durability, everything. Mitsubishi as a remedy borrowed from Hyundai, another loser in the reliability ranks, and began offering super long 'bumper to bumper' warranties on any new purchase.
Now some suckers fell for this thinking well if it breaks I'll just have it fixed on warranty. Yeah thats great if only one thing breaks ever. And they have your new part in stock and can install it in an hour or less, which is never the case. Anyway, enough suckers fell for this scheme through the past 4 years that Mitsubishi has now grow to be the number one fastest growing imort mfr. in North America (!). But ask these same people about how happy they are with their car or if they would ever buy antoer or if the dealer covered what they thought would/should be a warranty item. The pictrue then gets alot bleaker. Oh, and don't ask DSM tuner boys as they'll defend their product (like we Subie folks) to the end. Go talk to _regular_ people who drive Eclipses stock, and Galants as wel as Diamante's and the old school stuff too like the 300GT VR4 (aka' Junk'). They will tell you the real horror of it all. Same similar occured with folks at Audi in the late '90's as they offered a similar warranty program to help jumpstart negative sales figures. It worked too. But the big difference is that they actually improved their product lines reliability in step with the years so that now they actually offer half decent stuff that won't keep you on a first name basis with your local service writer.
Personally, I have much better things to do with my time than sit at a DSM dealer hoping they'll warranty my car for the umpteenth time on some item that should just work. Meanwhile, I know for fact after having owned five Subies that generally if I keep the tank at 1/4 full, check the oil every so often, change my air filter at least once every third year, swap out the factory battery for a DieHard Gold unit and check my CV boots every so often, a Subie will run forever four season through the basically anything and under the worst of neglect or road conditions.
Subie's aren't the prettiest nor at times the cheapest, but over the lifetime of the car they can't be beat...other than possibly Toyota.
In the end why spend $29-31K on a DSM that you have to hope the dealer will honor your warranty just for basic stuff that shouldn't be breaking in the first place. When you can pay the same price for a Subie and your only concern is finding a dealer who will not ding you having modded parts when you take it in for oil changes.
IMHO, DSM is the Pontiac of Japan.
Just my $0.02
I've already voted with my pockets...
- Janq
Last edited by Janq; Oct 28, 2003 at 06:28 PM.
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foreign past evo reliability
Ok,
I posted a question about previous version STi vs EVO reliability in a few forums in the UK and Australia.
Here are links to the threads if you'd like to see responces as they come in...
Let's see what we get.
Steve
uk evo forum
SIDC forum
Scoobynet
SIDC Impreza vs Evo thread
Evolution.net australian forum
I posted a question about previous version STi vs EVO reliability in a few forums in the UK and Australia.
Here are links to the threads if you'd like to see responces as they come in...
Let's see what we get.
Steve
uk evo forum
SIDC forum
Scoobynet
SIDC Impreza vs Evo thread
Evolution.net australian forum
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Originally posted by awns729
you guys are being a bit biased, the evo is much less $ and better handling out of the box. if warrany was not an issue id strongly consider it.
you guys are being a bit biased, the evo is much less $ and better handling out of the box. if warrany was not an issue id strongly consider it.
The price differential of $3K has been stated, though I got my STi for the same price as an EVO(!), and we discussed the EVO's handling which is in fact _marginally_ better than the STi.
The recently discussed issue is not with the warranty.
Its witht he fact that one has to expect to use the warranty when buying the EVO, and further has to hope that individual dealers will accept claims for things broken that should in fact just work or be right in the first place.
You are either misinterpreting what has been said or not reading all that has been said, which is a lot.
We're not being biased.
Its just been an honest comparison of the two vehicles is all.
I'd have considered the EVO, if it were manufactured by someone reliable like say...Subaru.
STi = EVO w/reliable and proper build quality minus a radio
- Janq
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I'm sorry i should have mentioned that evo owners are having mitsu reps come to track days and take pics of their car and are having manyy many warranty claim problems. I took for granted you all knew that and ...well i think that was what i was referring to, my bad. sorry im out of it.
....k IMO the STi is now something to consider just b/c of all the trouble with mitsu warrany claims, and b/c some people are getting the sti for the same price as the evo. thats all im gonna say
....k IMO the STi is now something to consider just b/c of all the trouble with mitsu warrany claims, and b/c some people are getting the sti for the same price as the evo. thats all im gonna say