05 STI predictions
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So Janq, if the rumors are true, when do you recommend people to fetch the Sti?
Would December be the last Month to get an Sti and then after the announcements, people would go nuts and start gangbanging the Subaru dealerships to get the last few Sti's and not to mention the markups.
Would December be the last Month to get an Sti and then after the announcements, people would go nuts and start gangbanging the Subaru dealerships to get the last few Sti's and not to mention the markups.
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Well if what Janq says is true then there probably won't be a rush for the cars since like you said Jag, the dealers will mark up the price at that time. Those looking for the STI would be wise to wait a few months till the cars sit on the lots costing the dealers money(not sure how that works). By then the dealers should lower the prices so drastically that those that couldn't afford it before would have a chance to buy them...in theory.
Does this sound about right Janq or anyone else?
Does this sound about right Janq or anyone else?
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Interesting...
and I think its Fing awesome! If they dont sell the STI over here anymore I would be soooo happy. Having a car that was a one time deal here in the US! Talk about re-sale value.
I think hes right though, for some reason americans would rather own a giant SUV or a toyota with all the extras.
This is the fate of the camaro, this is the fate of the Firebird. The sales for these cars in the past 3 years has been terrible! That is why they yanked them. Its all about business, if they dont sell all the STI's quick over here, you can bet it will have the same fate as the Camaro. No more in production.
I think if they would have just put a damn radio in the car they would have sold SOOOOOOO much better. Most people dont want the hassle of putting in a radio 5 minutes after they leave the dealership, or even worse have a car marked up for something that has been standard in cars for over 40 years.
The normal person off the street sees it doesnt come with a radio and is like WTF.. People like us understand (kind of) I really dont, It wouldnt have added much weight and should have been included.
You know what no radio or mats tells me? They overextended themselves so much on the car they had to leave it out to keep it even the MSRP price... Just knowing that alone means they cant churn them out cheaper then they are, and if they include a radio and other packages count on paying for a 35k+ WRX. Something I dont think people will be willing to pay.
We shall see...
and I think its Fing awesome! If they dont sell the STI over here anymore I would be soooo happy. Having a car that was a one time deal here in the US! Talk about re-sale value.
I think hes right though, for some reason americans would rather own a giant SUV or a toyota with all the extras.
This is the fate of the camaro, this is the fate of the Firebird. The sales for these cars in the past 3 years has been terrible! That is why they yanked them. Its all about business, if they dont sell all the STI's quick over here, you can bet it will have the same fate as the Camaro. No more in production.
I think if they would have just put a damn radio in the car they would have sold SOOOOOOO much better. Most people dont want the hassle of putting in a radio 5 minutes after they leave the dealership, or even worse have a car marked up for something that has been standard in cars for over 40 years.
The normal person off the street sees it doesnt come with a radio and is like WTF.. People like us understand (kind of) I really dont, It wouldnt have added much weight and should have been included.
You know what no radio or mats tells me? They overextended themselves so much on the car they had to leave it out to keep it even the MSRP price... Just knowing that alone means they cant churn them out cheaper then they are, and if they include a radio and other packages count on paying for a 35k+ WRX. Something I dont think people will be willing to pay.
We shall see...
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Yes, resale value might be high, MIGHT be, but it might be a pain in the **** to find parts for it if you plan on keeping it for an extended period of time. Especially if its only a 1 year run. Hopefully that won't be the case with this car, but who knows...it all depends on how tunable the car is compared to the EVO.
As for giant SUV's, I can understand why most want one. A lot of people have homes(not talking about apartments) and families. The SUV provides the illusion of safety since its large and the convinience of utility and in todays market a good measure of luxury. They also have off road capabilities which pretty much makes them the jack of all trade vehicles. Hell, the damn Cheyanne does a 13.5 1/4 mile
That is friggin nuts.
As for giant SUV's, I can understand why most want one. A lot of people have homes(not talking about apartments) and families. The SUV provides the illusion of safety since its large and the convinience of utility and in todays market a good measure of luxury. They also have off road capabilities which pretty much makes them the jack of all trade vehicles. Hell, the damn Cheyanne does a 13.5 1/4 mile
That is friggin nuts.
Last edited by NYCSTI; Oct 16, 2003 at 09:18 AM.
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With a huge caveat, the information I have is only rumor as SoA has not yet made an official ststement for the upcoming model year(s) as some other mfrs. have (notably Audi re. the RS6).
One should not base their savings & financial situation on rumors from the internet. Buying a $30K+ car for most normal/regular/average people is a huge expenditure.
Ok, now I feel better and I'll answer the questions.
* STi_Jaguar - You've been around for a long time here and know that I'm big on paying as little as I can to get as much as my buck will get me. Call me cheap, call me thrifty, but just don't call me a 'mark'. There are some who unnecessarily paid MSRP plus a huge amount of $$ for an STi. They either didn't shop around or wer eimpatient and wanted to be the first on their block with a cool toy. I'd bet that the only demand for these cars assuming SoA makes an announcement indicating none for '05 would be from folks that hang on these boards (i.e. i-Club & NASIOC). Generally people have no clue about the STi including _lots_ of auto enthusiasts. Its just not a car high on the radar profile. I know, you're are probably thinking "What the heck is he talkin' about?!". Granted the car is a 'Supercar' and its been in all the press with favorable reviews but still its about as common as Dean Kamen's e-scooter and understood even less.
Bottom line, if I were wanting an STi right now and my finances could withstand the hit I'd be looking at getting one sooner than later. I'd shop my _coast_ (not just my immediate neighborhood/state/region) and locate one on discount today. Its been confirmed going back to August that prices are falling below MSRP and dealers are dealing for those who are serious and walk in acting as such. Waiting untill the end of the year is a bet that the car will be here for '05 (anything is possible!) and if it isn't that one would find a dealer who woul be kind enough not to try to make a quick buck on a very limited one year run supercar. We already know from experience in the summer that most dealers will make a quick buck if they can and there are people out there who will pay anything to have this thing.
Keep in mind the old saying; "A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush."
* NYCSTi - Dealers sell slow moving cars that are costing them money in terest payments to wholesalers who then turn around and move the cars to better/stronger markets. As an example this is what happened to many Ford Thunderbirds, Mercury Maraduers, Lincoln Blackwoods and other seemingly hot cars that in reality did not move and had short production runs. Now the STi is none of these but do know that dealers have various industry means to rid themselves of lead anchors. Now consider we are in the middle of a recession with folks struggling to keep or get a job and pay their mortageg or college loans. Paying $32K MSRP for a car with no radio or floor mats or sunroof seems to most sane people to be just shy of ludicrous. Some of us Subie (and non-Subie) enthusisats don't think so but as I stated before we represent a very small percentage of the market.
Depending on your area and its economic position dealers will have little problem clearing their STi inventory. Other dealers in areas like WV, MS, and the heartland (I'm in VA) where the recession has hit hardest won't do as well. Those units will be moved of the parking lot, one way or another. Keep in mind the dealers are a business and such they will not allow themselves to take a loss on cars. Those that do go out of business. Its that simple.
Bottom line, I have to disagree with your theory. But hey that doesn't mean I'm right. There may be one or two dealers out there in the future who'll be willing to take a bath on an STi in late December. Its just a matter of finding that needle in the national haystack.
<continued>...
One should not base their savings & financial situation on rumors from the internet. Buying a $30K+ car for most normal/regular/average people is a huge expenditure.
Ok, now I feel better and I'll answer the questions.
* STi_Jaguar - You've been around for a long time here and know that I'm big on paying as little as I can to get as much as my buck will get me. Call me cheap, call me thrifty, but just don't call me a 'mark'. There are some who unnecessarily paid MSRP plus a huge amount of $$ for an STi. They either didn't shop around or wer eimpatient and wanted to be the first on their block with a cool toy. I'd bet that the only demand for these cars assuming SoA makes an announcement indicating none for '05 would be from folks that hang on these boards (i.e. i-Club & NASIOC). Generally people have no clue about the STi including _lots_ of auto enthusiasts. Its just not a car high on the radar profile. I know, you're are probably thinking "What the heck is he talkin' about?!". Granted the car is a 'Supercar' and its been in all the press with favorable reviews but still its about as common as Dean Kamen's e-scooter and understood even less.
Bottom line, if I were wanting an STi right now and my finances could withstand the hit I'd be looking at getting one sooner than later. I'd shop my _coast_ (not just my immediate neighborhood/state/region) and locate one on discount today. Its been confirmed going back to August that prices are falling below MSRP and dealers are dealing for those who are serious and walk in acting as such. Waiting untill the end of the year is a bet that the car will be here for '05 (anything is possible!) and if it isn't that one would find a dealer who woul be kind enough not to try to make a quick buck on a very limited one year run supercar. We already know from experience in the summer that most dealers will make a quick buck if they can and there are people out there who will pay anything to have this thing.
Keep in mind the old saying; "A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush."
* NYCSTi - Dealers sell slow moving cars that are costing them money in terest payments to wholesalers who then turn around and move the cars to better/stronger markets. As an example this is what happened to many Ford Thunderbirds, Mercury Maraduers, Lincoln Blackwoods and other seemingly hot cars that in reality did not move and had short production runs. Now the STi is none of these but do know that dealers have various industry means to rid themselves of lead anchors. Now consider we are in the middle of a recession with folks struggling to keep or get a job and pay their mortageg or college loans. Paying $32K MSRP for a car with no radio or floor mats or sunroof seems to most sane people to be just shy of ludicrous. Some of us Subie (and non-Subie) enthusisats don't think so but as I stated before we represent a very small percentage of the market.
Depending on your area and its economic position dealers will have little problem clearing their STi inventory. Other dealers in areas like WV, MS, and the heartland (I'm in VA) where the recession has hit hardest won't do as well. Those units will be moved of the parking lot, one way or another. Keep in mind the dealers are a business and such they will not allow themselves to take a loss on cars. Those that do go out of business. Its that simple.
Bottom line, I have to disagree with your theory. But hey that doesn't mean I'm right. There may be one or two dealers out there in the future who'll be willing to take a bath on an STi in late December. Its just a matter of finding that needle in the national haystack.
<continued>...
Guest
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<continued>...
* ProPain - You are right on about the radio. The biggest controversy on this both online and in the press has been the cost of entry relative to the no radio/no mats thing. For me I'm old school and remember back in the day when the domestics offered this type of setup as an 'option' on their factory specials. I didn't think much of it. But now as an owner _every_ regular person who has seen my car IRL (non-Subie tuner geeks) has commented and made faces when they see I have no radio and had to buy my own mats (K-Mart @ $9.99 for a complete set!). This and the fact that it has the 'wild' spoiler & hood scoop have really been the central points for this car to again regular folks, aka 'The Buying Majority'. Now this car is no Toyota Camry but its no Porsche Boxster either, both of which regular people understand for what they are. Our car like some of us (me included) is an anomaly, an enigma even. The only time people have stated they 'understand' the draw is after I give them a ride even brief. Even if I tell them upfront the car makes 300HP & 300Tq it doesn't seem to phase them. Keep in mind my Honda Pilot makes 250+HP and most domestic SUV's make 280+ HP. Regular people are not phased by 300/300 figures, on paper.
Nor do they understand power to weight figures, or car for that matter. We STi folks and the wannbe's (not a bad thing) know that this thing is hotter than horseradish mixed with tobasco sauce and washed dwon with Coke. But we just barely amount to 4K buyers as based upon results. If that weren't the case then there wouldn't be som many STi's sitting on dealer lots unsold in my area which is rife with relatively well-off if not rich techies. Other primary regions (metroplex's) are reporting same similar inventory numbers as of late. The outlying areas have less cars because they got relatively less cars to start with as allocations are varied based on overall WRX sales. Thats why Van Bortel which is in the sticks got so many, they move a lot of WRX's.
In the end as I always say; "Time will tell the tale".
- Janq
* ProPain - You are right on about the radio. The biggest controversy on this both online and in the press has been the cost of entry relative to the no radio/no mats thing. For me I'm old school and remember back in the day when the domestics offered this type of setup as an 'option' on their factory specials. I didn't think much of it. But now as an owner _every_ regular person who has seen my car IRL (non-Subie tuner geeks) has commented and made faces when they see I have no radio and had to buy my own mats (K-Mart @ $9.99 for a complete set!). This and the fact that it has the 'wild' spoiler & hood scoop have really been the central points for this car to again regular folks, aka 'The Buying Majority'. Now this car is no Toyota Camry but its no Porsche Boxster either, both of which regular people understand for what they are. Our car like some of us (me included) is an anomaly, an enigma even. The only time people have stated they 'understand' the draw is after I give them a ride even brief. Even if I tell them upfront the car makes 300HP & 300Tq it doesn't seem to phase them. Keep in mind my Honda Pilot makes 250+HP and most domestic SUV's make 280+ HP. Regular people are not phased by 300/300 figures, on paper.
Nor do they understand power to weight figures, or car for that matter. We STi folks and the wannbe's (not a bad thing) know that this thing is hotter than horseradish mixed with tobasco sauce and washed dwon with Coke. But we just barely amount to 4K buyers as based upon results. If that weren't the case then there wouldn't be som many STi's sitting on dealer lots unsold in my area which is rife with relatively well-off if not rich techies. Other primary regions (metroplex's) are reporting same similar inventory numbers as of late. The outlying areas have less cars because they got relatively less cars to start with as allocations are varied based on overall WRX sales. Thats why Van Bortel which is in the sticks got so many, they move a lot of WRX's.
In the end as I always say; "Time will tell the tale".
- Janq
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Originally posted by NYCSTI
Yes, resale value might be high, MIGHT be, but it might be a pain in the **** to find parts for it if you plan on keeping it for an extended period of time. Especially if its only a 1 year run. Hopefully that won't be the case with this car, but who knows...it all depends on how tunable the car is compared to the EVO.
As for giant SUV's, I can understand why most want one. A lot of people have homes(not talking about apartments) and families. The SUV provides the illusion of safety since its large and the convinience of utility and in todays market a good measure of luxury. They also have off road capabilities which pretty much makes them the jack of all trade vehicles. Hell, the damn Cheyanne does a 13.5 1/4 mile That is friggin nuts.
Yes, resale value might be high, MIGHT be, but it might be a pain in the **** to find parts for it if you plan on keeping it for an extended period of time. Especially if its only a 1 year run. Hopefully that won't be the case with this car, but who knows...it all depends on how tunable the car is compared to the EVO.
As for giant SUV's, I can understand why most want one. A lot of people have homes(not talking about apartments) and families. The SUV provides the illusion of safety since its large and the convinience of utility and in todays market a good measure of luxury. They also have off road capabilities which pretty much makes them the jack of all trade vehicles. Hell, the damn Cheyanne does a 13.5 1/4 mile
That is friggin nuts.
A proiduction run of 4K units only, assuming that actually ends up being the case, is large compared to some real short runs like the BMW Z8, the ZR1, Cobra R and many others.
I own an SUV and i have to say for a family get about its pretty darn good at its job. Easy on gas and it just happens to be the safest vehicle currently available at less than $90K as based on NHTSA, IIHS and ENCAP safety reviews. Plus its made by Honda and will run nearly forever. All SUV's are not bad options just as all SUV drivers aren't devoid of skill. Its just unfortunate that we have gas hogs and space wastes like the H2 amid blatant money clips like the Cayenne and operators who often seem to have zero driver training/skills.
BTW the Infiniti FX45 is even quicker than the Cayenne Turbo, and costs half as much. The Touareg V8 is better than the 'base 8' Cayenne and costs 1/3 as much nicely apportioned.
- Janq
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Although I'm no longer actively searching for an STi people loop me of MSRP or less units they come across.
I'll pass on the info to this thread as I become aware of anything available. Ages ago though there was a thread here specific to dealers offering units at MSRP or less. You might want to run a search and check to see if there have been any recent posts there.
Let me know if you don't find the thread as I'll check my post history for it.
I wonder, what would be your second choice/'B' plan if an STi doesn't become available at a decent rate?
- Janq
I'll pass on the info to this thread as I become aware of anything available. Ages ago though there was a thread here specific to dealers offering units at MSRP or less. You might want to run a search and check to see if there have been any recent posts there.
Let me know if you don't find the thread as I'll check my post history for it.
I wonder, what would be your second choice/'B' plan if an STi doesn't become available at a decent rate?
- Janq
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Damn, if an STI were not available, I'd just keep my VR6 jetta. I am just 3 months away from this coveted purchase so I am really excited.
I do not really care for any other vehicle, sure the EVO and 350Z is nice but not worth spending my hard earned cash over it.
I do not really care for any other vehicle, sure the EVO and 350Z is nice but not worth spending my hard earned cash over it.
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Ya, friend at work has a G35 Coupe fully loaded...Its a stunner to say the least. A nice plush refined ride. He spent 41g's for it. I would just get the base 6MT.
Hmm, interesting. Just browsing through evolutionm.net's forums, some people are reporting Evo's for 1k below msrp, some 500 under invoice, not bad. The dealers are feeling the car pinch it seems...that is good news if its factual.
Hmm, interesting. Just browsing through evolutionm.net's forums, some people are reporting Evo's for 1k below msrp, some 500 under invoice, not bad. The dealers are feeling the car pinch it seems...that is good news if its factual.
Last edited by NYCSTI; Oct 18, 2003 at 03:45 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 109
From: Ottawa Ontario
Car Info: not a subie
personally I think the STI is a touch over priced... why go STI when you can go beamer or benz. Other than we in the community who know the heritage, the car is just not considered as valuable as a beamer or benz.
Throw in 5 point harness racing seats and a rollcage for maybe 2 grand more and I'd seriously consider not eating every other day to save for this car. :P Not that I'm already trying to cut the fat elsewhere to save up for at least a TS :3
Throw in 5 point harness racing seats and a rollcage for maybe 2 grand more and I'd seriously consider not eating every other day to save for this car. :P Not that I'm already trying to cut the fat elsewhere to save up for at least a TS :3
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Originally posted by NYCSTI
Ya, friend at work has a G35 Coupe fully loaded...Its a stunner to say the least. A nice plush refined ride. He spent 41g's for it. I would just get the base 6MT.
Ya, friend at work has a G35 Coupe fully loaded...Its a stunner to say the least. A nice plush refined ride. He spent 41g's for it. I would just get the base 6MT.
he must have loaded it to the gills with every possible option incclufding the pointless NAV (how often do you get lost going to work or home?), the sunroof and the upgrade radio that sounds and acts the same as the really nice 'base' radio, and the aero aids that you can't see and only reduce your CD by .01.
For $41K he could have gotten a slightly used M3 or a new 330i Performance which is better than the previous gen M3. The G35C 6MT base comes really well setup with eveythign one needs and only costs $33K.
Nice...!
- Janq