F1 2008 BelgianGP Sept 5-7

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Old Sep 5, 2008 | 11:31 PM
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F1 2008 BelgianGP Sept 5-7

Kimi better be on pole, and he better pull away to show he's still in top shape, anything otherwise will show a weakness in his driving or his car, catastrophe

FP1: http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2008/799/6552/

FP2: http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2008/799/6553/

C'mon Kimi, dig yourself out, and GET BACK UP!
Old Sep 6, 2008 | 01:33 PM
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Im Here!!!!
Old Sep 6, 2008 | 02:00 PM
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lol @ Kimi ... Hamilton will take it all da way and maybe McLaren 1 & 2.
Old Sep 7, 2008 | 06:57 AM
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I'm so freaking heart broken

Kimi lead nearly the entire way, and even though near the end he was in 2nd, that's still great... and then, ****, rain... He and Lewis nearly both lost their races, but Kimi was just too close to a wall.

The points spread now is more than last year I believe. Kimi probably has no chance now.

Good to see Vettel and Bourdais in the top 10, points.

I didn't watch, i logged into f1.com and read the lap by lap commentary.

Old Sep 7, 2008 | 08:08 AM
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congrats to McLaren Fans .... GO Lewis Hamilton ... don't worry GaGaN Bhaaji .. there is always next year for Kimi ... as for this year .. Hamilton will take it ... yea and sucks for Kimi to lose out when the rain came.
Old Sep 8, 2008 | 10:51 AM
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Lewis has been placed back in third place due to the battle with Kimi. Booo!

Massa awarded the win.
Old Sep 8, 2008 | 10:56 AM
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So much for Lewis taking 10pts...

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/9/8334.html

Ferrari’s Felipe Massa has been declared the winner of Sunday’s Belgian Grand Prix after McLaren’ Lewis Hamilton was handed a 25-second time penalty following the race. Hamilton drops to third place as a result, with BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld moving up to second. McLaren plan to appeal the decision.

Hamilton was penalised after stewards decided he had gained an advantage by cutting the final chicane in his late-race battle with Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen. Raikkonen crashed out shortly after the incident, having the led the bulk of the race up to that point.

"I have often said that the race is not over until the official results are published and that was the case today," said Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali. "As usual, Ferrari will not comment on the stewards' decision. After the race, we were called to the stewards and we explained our position.

"We are very disappointed for Kimi, who had driven a great race and deserved the win, especially at this rather difficult time. This result is obviously very important for our championship hopes: now we must maintain maximum concentration and prepare as well as possible for the forthcoming races."

McLaren insisted they had little choice but to appeal the stewards' decision, given that Hamilton had immediately surrendered the lead back to Raikkonen on the start-finish straight, before then passing the Finn going into the La Source hairpin.

"We looked at all our data and also made it available to the FIA stewards," said the team. "It showed that, having lifted, Lewis was 6km/h slower than Kimi as they crossed the start-finish line. Having passed the lead back to Kimi, Lewis repositioned his car, moving across and behind Kimi to the right-hand line and then out-braked him into the hairpin. Based on this data, we have no option other than to register our intention to appeal."

The revised result means that rather than extending his championship lead over Massa, Hamilton now sees it cut, with the Briton heading the Brazilian by just two points, 76 to 74, with five races remaining.

Assuming their right to appeal is accepted, McLaren's case against Hamilton's penalty will be heard by the FIA's International Court of Appeal at a date to be determined.
I'll be honest, when I was watching the race, before I knew about the penalty, I too felt that it was a weird maneuver, but, whatever, didn't matter cause Kimi was out.

Before people get their panties in a bunch...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/5...-sport-no-good


In yesterday's Belgian Grand Prix, after a thrilling last few laps in which the rains came down and the running order was overturned, Lewis Hamilton, in his McLaren-Mercedes, saw off a challenge from Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen, which ended with the Finn in the wall, and the British driver taking victory.

Or so we thought.

A matter of hours later, the stewards of the Belgian Grand Prix announced that they had seen fit to impose on Hamilton a 25-second time penalty, dropping him to third place and handing the win to Ferrari's Felipe Massa.

Hamilton's crime, which cost him victory, was a questionable overtaking move on Raikkonen two laps from the finish: Hamilton cut the chicane at the end of lap 42, moving him ahead of Raikkonen; although he yielded the position before attacking the Ferrari again to overtake, the stewards deemed that he had still gained an advantage from cutting the corner and therefore imposed a penalty.

The eventual result of the race has prompted a predictable howl of anguish from many F1 fans, particularly those who have felt for many years that there is some sort of "conspiracy" in the FIA, the governing body of Formula One and the rest of world motorsport, favouring the Ferrari team above any of the others.

This feeling of injustice has been felt by fans without access to any of the data made available to the stewards, and upon which they presumably based their decision to punish Hamilton.

Hamilton's defenders are, unwittingly or otherwise, believers of the myth that in F1, "What you see is what you get." Because we saw Hamilton let Raikkonen past and surrender the lead he unfairly took at the chicane, so the argument goes, therefore the McLaren driver gained no advantage and should not have been punished.

But Formula One is a complex, multifaceted affair, and very often behind the scenes there is more to a particular incident than meets the eye.

To put this incident into historical context, let us consider the infamous qualifying penalty imposed upon Fernando Alonso at the 2006 Italian Grand Prix, an event that has already been mentioned in the context of this latest penalty amongst all the wailing and gnashing of teeth. Alonso was deemed to have impeded the Ferrari of Felipe Massa, and was therefore demoted from his original qualifying position of fifth to tenth on the starting grid.

At the time of the incident, Alonso had been running ninety metres ahead of the Ferrari. According to basic logic, there is no way that Alonso's running could in any way have impeded the progress of Massa, following so far behind.

However, the stewards had access to Ferrari's telemetry data, which showed that the effectiveness and efficiency of Massa's aerodynamics had indeed been adversely affected by a car in front. No one was implying that Alonso had deliberately impeded Massa, but at the time it was stated under the rules that any impediment of another car's progress, deliberate or otherwise, would result in a penalty.

If anything, all the Monza incident showed is that the aerodynamic effect on a Formula One car of a car ahead is far greater than can be seen on television screens, or understood by those without access to all the relevant data.

So while the armchair critics fume and rage over the result of the Belgian Grand Prix, they are forgetting one important detail: we, as fans, do not have all the facts.

It is distressing to see that so many fans have concluded that the FIA are somehow incompetent or biased, simply because the race stewards of the Belgian Grand Prix have made a decision that they do not understand or agree with.

What is even more disturbing is that these individuals have chosen to vent their collective spleen in the public domain, thus driving more potential fans away from a sport that they will begin to see as contrived as, say, professional wrestling.

We owe it to the sport we all love to reserve judgement on the outcome of this year's Belgian Grand Prix until we know the facts, or at least understand the reasoning behind the stewards' decision.

Last edited by joltdudeuc; Sep 8, 2008 at 12:32 PM.
Old Sep 8, 2008 | 12:10 PM
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That's BS. I saw the race. He certainly didn't "cut" the chicane. Without a doubt it had to do with the rain. Lastly Lewis surrendered to position back to Kimi. Clearly he made no attempt to maintain P1 after the chicane. Hell Kimi attempted a PIC at the apex of turn 1. FIA FTL
Old Sep 8, 2008 | 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ipozestu
That's BS. I saw the race. He certainly didn't "cut" the chicane. Without a doubt it had to do with the rain. Lastly Lewis surrendered to position back to Kimi. Clearly he made no attempt to maintain P1 after the chicane. Hell Kimi attempted a PIC at the apex of turn 1. FIA FTL
He gave it back yeah, but he slipstream him on the left side.

I mean, looking at what Massa has said about talks at the drivers meetings, FIA has stressed this cutting the chicane thing pretty hardcore. If you cut the chicane, you have to give up the position AND any advantage gained afterward.

So, yes, he gave the position back, but was supposed to have heeded more than that, at least, for like a corner to two.

Pretty hefty rules.
Old Sep 8, 2008 | 12:48 PM
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He would have been in his draft regardless. It's not like he was entering the chicane while Kimi was exiting. It would have panned out just the way it did. I'm a tad bitter about this ruling. It was a great race. Masa certainly does not deserve the 10pts.
Old Sep 8, 2008 | 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ipozestu
He would have been in his draft regardless. It's not like he was entering the chicane while Kimi was exiting. It would have panned out just the way it did. I'm a tad bitter about this ruling. It was a great race. Masa certainly does not deserve the 10pts.
I don't think so...

He was right on with Kimi the lap prior, but couldn't draft him. Drafting is super super hard. It only happens when you run a medium/high down force and have a long distance to cover at WOT.

low down force circuits tend not to have much drafting cause there isn't much to draft.

The data will tell them if Lewis was benefiting from a draft, and if so, the ruling will stand. If Lewis was behind Kimi out of the chicane, he wouldn't have drafted him in that area, it would've happened later down the straight on the other straight.

So again, only the data will tell, cause we don't know the details.
Old Sep 8, 2008 | 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ipozestu
He would have been in his draft regardless. It's not like he was entering the chicane while Kimi was exiting. It would have panned out just the way it did. I'm a tad bitter about this ruling. It was a great race. Masa certainly does not deserve the 10pts.
I'm a big Kimi fan and I certainly agree with you on this. Apparently it does not state in the rule book how much room you have to give when you give a spot back. I for sure saw that he was behind him before La Source. I think they're racist.

A classic thrown away by judges that probably have never driven a racecar at this level.
Old Sep 8, 2008 | 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by -j-
I'm a big Kimi fan and I certainly agree with you on this. Apparently it does not state in the rule book how much room you have to give when you give a spot back. I for sure saw that he was behind him before La Source. I think they're racist.

A classic thrown away by judges that probably have never driven a racecar at this level.
But that's Massa's point...

giving the spot back isn't what the rules state, Massa said that in the drivers meetings they specifically state that you must give back the position AND forfeit any benefit, period. He gave up the position, we all saw that, but he used Kimi's slipstream, hence where the benefit was gained.

He wouldn't have gotten that draft that soon, Massa says, if he followed Kimi in the chicane. He cut the chicane, doesn't matter the reason, and didn't forfeit his gained benefit of the slipstream. This is what FIA is after, and only the telemetry data will show if there was gain to be had.
Old Sep 8, 2008 | 03:59 PM
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Oh well. I guess we'll just have to enjoy that the points are closer than ever and it's going to be a battle to the end unless Lewis decides he's M. Schumacher and just punts all the other threats.
Old Sep 9, 2008 | 07:56 AM
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Because of this, I'm itching to see Lewis rip up Monza, in Tifosi territory. Traditionally a track ruled by "the red team". Top speeds have been neck and neck. It should be a good race.



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