RallyX-Thunderhill OCT 21st
 

Just reminding people to support this in hopes to have it actually "in" the bay area someday! on a monthly basis...

im going FTW i have 300 more cc's than previous times, better tires, lighter car and im gonna try to actually focus like i did at marina autoX since all 4 of my times were within .500 im starting to think it actually helps.

I used to think it was far, but its not so bad on a map, i used to call it shasta or redding, but no way is it that far.

LAST EVENT FOR 2006!Lets make our subarus proud by drivin home w/a layer of dust

[url]http://www.sfrscca.com/RallyX/[/url]

im gonna go, but when is the latest i can register??

I'm not gonna be up there. 800 miles round trip is just too far

800 wtf? its as far as LA?! well ive got 50 miles on you each trip... im gonna miss the marina AutoX and this is the last RallyX of the year plus this is the only track my car would survive on since its the so smoov

i totally missed antiochs registration but i just showed up early and got on the waiting list as someone said they werent gonna run. all you have to do is register who you are and your car, no money down, no interest for 12 months...come see mc*****tits at cypress coast advantage auto mall, our premier RSX wing installer!"

i'm going to go it's my first time and i'm bringing my impreza L :] really excited about this.

I'll be there if I can get my dirt suspension on in time.

[QUOTE=MBasile]I'm not gonna be up there. 800 miles round trip is just too far[/QUOTE]

Its less than 500 round trip from Monterey.

but that is still a long haul for 4 minutes of street time.

Im sure there will be fun runs, because all the bay area rallyXs theyve had big turnouts, and they say the thunderhill one doesnt get that many entrees. So there should be like 8 minutes of seat time for 8 hours of driving ha

crap maybe i shouldve found out when it starts and how long it takes to get there. Anyone going?

took about 3 hours. The course was smoother on the first run, but then just got all chunked up. The wind was nice because it cleared the dust away fast.
My steering wheel is now centered as i go down the highway haha.

[url]http://www.sfrscca.org/RallyX/scoring/RXScores.2006.10.21.pdf[/url]

Hey Kyle,

Some photos from Astrid:

[url]http://picasaweb.google.com/ascian3/RallyXThunderhillLongVersion[/url]

Can I inline from picasa? Let's see....

[img]http://lh3.google.com/ascian3/RTyMnliQABI/AAAAAAAAAHA/lHJRGKNvgGw/DSC_0198.JPG?imgmax=800[/img]

[img]http://lh3.google.com/ascian3/RTyMnliQABI/AAAAAAAAAHA/lHJRGKNvgGw/DSC_0198.JPG?imgmax=640[/img]

[img]http://lh6.google.com/ascian3/RTyNnRekABI/AAAAAAAAAMk/zR4nZGf-Uns/DSC_0693.JPG?imgmax=640[/img]

[img]http://lh3.google.com/ascian3/RTyNeRWBABI/AAAAAAAAALs/jdNnDPveDLA/DSC_0683.JPG?imgmax=640[/img]

Cool pics thx

nice pice, fun times... damn the ruts.

so what's the gossip on why no more rally-x a t-hill?

You were cleaning up those corners super fast. amazing w/teh clipping points. and the ruts... its all about how much thrashing your willing to put on your car for the best time.

Gossip about no more rallyX at Thill? you know it was the last of the season right, i hope you dont mean for good?! yeah it doesnt make sense when 80 people attend the bay area RallyXs while 50 attend the Thill but i dont think they would ever get rid of it for good?

Can someone tell me what you need for a rallyX to be put together. Im assuming its mainly insurance, and i dont quite understand that. I know a guy with 100's of acres in Hollister (mtns) and he already thrashes his trucks out there. How can i get a rallyX going on his land?

Hopefully no more Thill means Altamont is donating theyre bowl in the back to be made into a rallyX course. awwwWWWRRIGHHHT!

so Antioch didnt count for points this year, or was it because i was in a different car?

btw i didnt know i was working with someone who was so famous Ansel LOL good job on teh points. Skylar too :)!

[QUOTE=psoper]Its less than 500 round trip from Monterey.

but that is still a long haul for 4 minutes of street time.[/QUOTE]

Last tiem I went up 5 and it was almost 400 miles each way....its 100 miles above Sac which is a ways above monterey

I suppose if you take I-80 to get to Las Vegas that would be a long trip too.

5 doesn't go anywhere near Moterey, so I wouldn't be getting on 5 until getting off 505.
this way its 240 miles from Moterey to Willows

[QUOTE=kYLEMtnCRUZr]
Gossip about no more rallyX at Thill? you know it was the last of the season right, i hope you dont mean for good?! yeah it doesnt make sense when 80 people attend the bay area RallyXs while 50 attend the Thill but i dont think they would ever get rid of it for good?[/QUOTE]

Well because of certain individuals need to stir up sh!t, this very well could have been the last- you see SFR is no longer going to be sanctioning rally cross because SOMEBODY decided that NASA would be a better organization to do it (despite their insurance being more expensive and NASA not having a captive venue) and pissed off all of the SCCA regional administration.

A much better tactic would have been to set up a championship independant of sanctioning body, so both groups could have had a shot at sanctioning, and the organizers would have had that choise, but the way it was handled pissed off SCCA so much, that if- for any reason NASA doesn't pan out there will be no more rally cross in N Cal. Period.

[QUOTE=kYLEMtnCRUZr]Can someone tell me what you need for a rallyX to be put together. Im assuming its mainly insurance, and i dont quite understand that. I know a guy with 100's of acres in Hollister (mtns) and he already thrashes his trucks out there. How can i get a rallyX going on his land?[/QUOTE]

#1 is insurance, what's not to understand? if someone has a rollover and breaks their leg or worse, the organizer and the landowner almost certainly will be sued if they don't have event insurance to cover their liability.

#2 is a venue, and that is more than a plot of land, but that in itself is probably the biggest challenge around here- and not just any plot of land will do, it needs to be reasonable flat and clear of boulders and hazards. You also need to have a water truck, it helps to have a grader and some other heavy equipment to prepare and maintain the course.

#3 you need a timing system or rally clocks, SFR has two, but rally crossers can't have them because of the above mentioned political shennanigans.

#4 you need a crew of people to organize, promote and manage the event.

If you want to help organize an event on your friend's land, there are ways to make it happen, but right now its a bit unclear who you'll need to work with as everything is still somewhat up in the air.

[QUOTE=kYLEMtnCRUZr]Hopefully no more Thill means Altamont is donating theyre bowl in the back to be made into a rallyX course. awwwWWWRRIGHHHT![/QUOTE]

No such luck. Altamont shut down Rallycross after that first event when the ownership changed.

By the way, if anyone on this board is working on the NASA rallycross program, you might want to touch base with the NASA Rallysport people- as so far they know nothing about what's been going on around here.

Despite what the NASA autocrossers might be promising, NASA's Rallysport is the only group that is supposed to be administering any rallycross under the NASA banner.

[QUOTE=rubberbiscuitt]so what's the gossip on why no more rally-x a t-hill?[/QUOTE]

Megan and I have managed the RallyCross program for SFR for just about 4 years and it's time to retire. Retire not from racing - but from running the program. I tried for over a year to pass the torch to keep SFR alive and kicking but it didn't quite work out.

Other people have plans to continue a RallyCross program via NASA sanctioning, so hopefully we'll continue to see RallyCross in the Bay Area. They've already been in contact with NASA and are coordinating with SoCal RallyCross organizers who already sanction their events via NASA.

As far as their possible venues for next year, Antioch will be on the table since the event this year went fine. The new Altamont owners apparently want to bring RallyCross back (although they paved the infield, so I don't know what their thoughts are - maybe permit changes for their adjoining land - I have no idea). It sounds like there may also be a possibility next summer in Vallejo.

All of this aside, the simple fact that Thunderhill is so far away limits the vitality of RallyCross events there. AutoX works the same way with distant venues - the turnout at Marina can be 50% less (or more) than Golden Gate or Candlestick. Thunderhill has been great to us over the years though - the staff, affordable fees, and the hard packed clay. Still, with the low turnouts the math just doesn't work out - we haven't made annual positive cash flow at Thunderhill since 2004.

I really do appreciate everyone who has come out during the last several years. I've had a blast, and I hope people have enjoyed playing in the dirt. :) Hopefully we'll still meet next year at some new events.

[QUOTE=kYLEMtnCRUZr]so Antioch didnt count for points this year, or was it because i was in a different car?

btw i didnt know i was working with someone who was so famous Ansel LOL good job on teh points. Skylar too :)![/QUOTE]

Hey Kyle,

You entered in Rally Stock 4WD at Antioch and Rally Prepared 4WD at Thunderhill, so you points are split between those classes. Changing cars doesn't matter, but changing classes does. :)

[QUOTE=psoper]
#1 is insurance, what's not to understand? if someone has a rollover and breaks their leg or worse, the organizer and the landowner almost certainly will be sued if they don't have event insurance to cover their liability.

#2 is a venue, and that is more than a plot of land, but that in itself is probably the biggest challenge around here- and not just any plot of land will do, it needs to be reasonable flat and clear of boulders and hazards. You also need to have a water truck, it helps to have a grader and some other heavy equipment to prepare and maintain the course.

#3 you need a timing system or rally clocks, SFR has two, but rally crossers can't have them because of the above mentioned political shennanigans.

#4 you need a crew of people to organize, promote and manage the event.

If you want to help organize an event on your friend's land, there are ways to make it happen, but right now its a bit unclear who you'll need to work with as everything is still somewhat up in the air.[/QUOTE]

i realize what the insurance is for, but how you go about getting it, and how much it costs. Thill had it already since they are a race track, but an empty field wont have any, and it will probly trickle down to $50+ dollars a rallycross.

people sadly get flown out of Hollister Hills in the LifeFlight helicopter all the time, so im sure they have the right insurance.

im guessing the water truck is rented for $200 a day or something? and tractor like $400 so that means you need at least 18 paying participants.

i have a feeling that the dumb americans are catching on that rally is better than nascar and this will all pan out. And Altamont and Hollister Hills would be the best place, along with Thill to make a monthly event.

And what makes Antioch so special? i mean there are places like that in almost every city around the bay. Was it the fairgrounds insurance that was used? It was a good event but im just wondering why there, and not in one of the other 10 fairgounds around the bay.

San Jose has had a dirtbike track inside of their farigrounds for a long time now, so maybe that will work out into something.

[QUOTE=MoDrift]Hey Kyle,

You entered in Rally Stock 4WD at Antioch and Rally Prepared 4WD at Thunderhill, so you points are split between those classes. Changing cars doesn't matter, but changing classes does. :)[/QUOTE]

ah dammit i knew i shouldve signed up for stock. My car just has AGXs w pro kits, borla catback. I didnt know what classified me as modified, so i just signed up for it cuz i didnt want to be a cheater :/ haah oh well

[QUOTE=kYLEMtnCRUZr]i realize what the insurance is for, but how you go about getting it, and how much it costs. Thill had it already since they are a race track, but an empty field wont have any, and it will probly trickle down to $50+ dollars a rallycross.[/QUOTE]

no, you don't get insurance that cheap, you'd want at least a million dollars worth of coverage, and to get insurance for a motorsports event, you need to work with a company that does that and you will pretty much find it impossible if you aren't working through an organized sanctioning body like SCCA or NASA.
Even with their group rates and all those groups wind up paying more like $5-$15 per entrant in insurance premiums for events like this

[QUOTE=kYLEMtnCRUZr]people sadly get flown out of Hollister Hills in the LifeFlight helicopter all the time, so im sure they have the right insurance.[/QUOTE]

They are very different in that they are a state run OHV park, yes people get hurt there and get life-flighted out, but somebody has to pay for that (probably in the neighborhood of $5000 -$10000 per incident).
People who bring their vehicles to an OHV park have a little better understanding that there are risks involved and they take responsibility for their well being, people entering an organized event tend to have higher expectations that those organizing the event have done their due diligence to make things safe.

[QUOTE=kYLEMtnCRUZr]im guessing the water truck is rented for $200 a day or something? and tractor like $400 so that means you need at least 18 paying participants.[/QUOTE]

guess all you want, but go to an equipment rental place sometime and you will find that stuff costs a LOT more....

here's one quote I found online

Water Truck with Driver
$85.00 Per Hour

consider where they have to come from and you see that alone can add up real fast

[QUOTE=kYLEMtnCRUZr]i have a feeling that the dumb americans are catching on that rally is better than nascar and this will all pan out. And Altamont and Hollister Hills would be the best place, along with Thill to make a monthly event.[/QUOTE]

Americans are probably dumber than you give them credit for- and well, Altamont is right out, as is now Thunderhill, the only venue that seems to be open to hosting more events right now is Antioch.

[QUOTE=kYLEMtnCRUZr]And what makes Antioch so special? i mean there are places like that in almost every city around the bay. Was it the fairgrounds insurance that was used? It was a good event but im just wondering why there, and not in one of the other 10 fairgounds around the bay.[/QUOTE]

Just make yourself a little project -try securing permission to hold a race at ANY of them......and let us know how that's coming along, m'kay?

[QUOTE=kYLEMtnCRUZr]San Jose has had a dirtbike track inside of their farigrounds for a long time now, so maybe that will work out into something.[/QUOTE]


Maybe, but it does take a bit of work and it helps to have someone, or a club or something to suck it up if you lose money.

So how did the Antioch event pass when it was within 20' of 6 houses as well as 20' away from a busy street, not to mention a sidewalk with kids walking by and getting smushed.

[QUOTE=psoper]

They are very different in that they are a state run OHV park, yes people get hurt there and get life-flighted out, but somebody has to pay for that (probably in the neighborhood of $5000 -$10000 per incident).
People who bring their vehicles to an OHV park have a little better understanding that there are risks involved and they take responsibility for their well being, people entering an organized event tend to have higher expectations that those organizing the event have done their due diligence to make things safe.[/QUOTE]

well when people roll their 4x4s and break theyre arm as it flings out the window, they dont go and press charges on HHills so wouldnt having an event there be less expensive? Cant we just have the entrants sign something that says they realize that on paper with a signature? once you pass the gate, you cant make HHills pay your medical bills when you get hurt.

i dont see what the difference between when you high-side your dirtbike on the track and break your arm or roll your car or truck and break your arm on the same land at HHills.

Why cant we go out there with a group of 20 cars and a stopwatch and post up the times on the internet, why does it have to be under any name? if someone crashes, oh well, youre within the gates of Hollister Hills and you paid your $5 to get in and you agreed to the risks of entering.

Thanks for answering my questions, im just hoping i spark an idea with anyone that reads this.

Hey I'm not trying to argue you down, I'm just sharing what I've learned in now almost 10 years of doing Rally stuff.

Nothing says you can't go to HH set up some cones and time your friends with a stopwatch, (although you should check in case they do have some rules in that regard, they might....) just like there's nothing that keeps me from inviting some friends along for a drive and camping trip in the mountains, I generally know the people I'm playing with and I trust that they will be responsible and decent about things should any mis-fortune occur.

On the other hand if you're trying to organize a bigger event, charging entry fees and needing to bring in enough entrants to cover your expenses, you'd damn well better have your ass covered because if someone does decide its your fault, they can and most likely will sue you for everything you own, and even if they lose the suit it's going to cost you a small fortune to fight it.

Waivers of liability only work if the people signing them do so in good faith, they aren't worth the paper they are printed on when someone takes you to civil court.

As for Antioch, you'd need to talk with soneone who worked out that deal.
I didn't, so I don't know what was promised, what fees were paid or what insurance requiremets came along with the permission.
For that matter I've not even heard that another event will be allowed there, not that I've heard anything to the contrary, but we were all pretty excited about Altamont until a couple months afterwards when we got word that that was the last one.

I know when I went to Carnegie to ask them they required an ambulance and certified EMT's in site for the duration of the event- at the expense of the organizers, I'd expect HH has a similar policy in that regard (if you think water trucks are expensive- get a quote for an ambulance and paramedics)

yeah paramedics would be full on track day pricing.

I just rallycross to be timed, not that i dont have anywhere else to do it. i guess we just wait it out. I sent an email out to all the important people of Altamont, because after i did the Antioch Rally, the same day was a Spec Miata race, my friend won the oval race. I ran across the track to victory lane as everyone was packing up and leaving, and the track owner was there talking to all the spec miata guys about how he loves the variety and how he wants more events out there like this. Plus they have drifting. I heard by someone that they were willing to bring in dirt to put on top of the runoff gravel in order for us to rally there, like they were desperate for us again. Dont remember how i overheard this but someone was talking about it.

Thanks for all your input on this stuff.

i was told to send my contact info for a snowcross to the guy who drove the white works/evo in rally mod. i think his name is tim. so he might have some info on how to organize an event. contact the sfr office on how to contact him, of coarse you'd need his corect full name for that.



[QUOTE=kYLEMtnCRUZr]...btw i didnt know i was working with someone who was so famous Ansel LOL good job on teh points. Skylar too :)![/QUOTE]

neither did i. not too bad of results for a first season driver.

haha thanks, my poor car.

yeah Tam is the guy in the rallied out evo. i need to get some of those gravel spec wheels. I got his email info and everything, he is the man in charge i guess, he got the Antioch event up.

You got my vote if the snowcross happens. good luck

just don't go to SFR asking about Tam. He's not an SCCA member and he is personally responsible for SCCA dropping Rallycross here in northern CA

Pete, thanks for filling us in on the scoop.

..and many many thanks to Skylar and Meghan for all thier hard work over the years. Hopefully something new for rallyx will develop.


Damn Tam, damn Tam all the way to hell. (I know he must have meant well, but it looks like he screwed it up good)

Kinda off topic but I would love to help out in some way. I work as an IT person for an insurance broker and I could inquire to see if I could help with insurance info and maybe special pricing if this would help. I could get us all the free info we need for sure on the what's needed and what's not. If someone is interested PM me and we will start inquring.

for sure thats awesome. It seems like everyone has something to contribute...water truck and tractor? LOL

so what did Tam do? i dont wanna bash him or anything, but sounds like he dropped the ball?

No, no dropping the ball, more like speaking up out of turn. Instead of working with the organizers and building a championship apart from a sanctioning body or organizing alternate events with different venues, he went and outright dissed SCCA to NASA officials and came back and dissed SCCA to the face of the SCCA executives, telling them that NASA would be taking over the local Rallycross sanction- to which their reply was "good riddence".

While he may have had the best intentions, his choice of tactics pretty much wiped out SFR SCCA support for rallycross.

Some day he will learn that this approach isn't the best way to win friends and influence people into supporting your efforts.

^ You'd think common sense would have kicked-in at some point during that whole process. Always be gracious, always be diplomatic.

shakes head

SCCA isn't perfect, but what was so bad that he had to dis on them so adamantly? After dropping ProRally (a whole different story) SCCA were going to give more attention to RallyCross.

if anyone wants to tally up people to help, count me in. i found 2 traffic cones in my yard. one of the 2pc 3 1/2 footers tall, and one tall pointer cone.

and any other way(except money) to help too.

LOL lets see...i gotta stick o' gum...a paperclip...rubberband...2 nickels 1 dime and 4 pennies.

My friends family runs the pumkin patch/christmas tree farm in Mountain View, the last piece of land there. They have a million in insurance from what i heard, but it isnt there land...my point is that they will have lots of tractors when theyre done (land sold for like 30+ million) so i got a few tractors up my sleve in about a year. One has a rototiller attachment and i made my own rallycross on their land, very very smooth, then some high school kids came in a jeep and ruined it for me.

guess were gonna have to rally nomad style for a year or so.