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Old 07-25-2011, 10:57 AM   #1
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Auto-RX Oil Treatment. Don't Do It.

I have posted this to the official Auto-RX forums only to have the thread deleted 2 times, and the account I used to post this banned. Just a further example as to how terrible their customer service is.

I am writing to anyone that might be on the fence about purchasing a treatment or two of Auto-RX. In few words, Don't Do it. Allow me to go into the background of my issue.

I have a 2003 wrx that was burning around .75 quarts of oil every thousand miles or so. Thinking that it might be a stuck ring land I came across Auto-RX that claimed it could free up stuck ring lands, increase cylinder pressures, and reduce oil blow by. "GREAT!" I thought to myself, this is exactly what I needed. So after speaking with Rich Eklund regarding what oil to use in my treatment cycle I settled on Valvoline Conventional 5w30 for both the treatment oil, and the rinse oil.

Roughly 1000-1500 miles into the treatment an oil leak developed on the drivers side of my motor, at first I thought it might have been the valve cover gasket. So I looked on the Auto-RX website and saw that there was a possibility that Auto-RX could make your seals more pliable. "Seems plausible" I thought to myself, the FAQ said that it could take up to 3000 miles for the seals to re-seal and after that everything should be golden. So I waited, drained out the Auto-RX treatment oil and refilled with clean Valvoline 5w30 and a fresh Purelator One filter. 1,000 miles passed, no change in the leak. 2,000 miles passed, still no change in fact it was getting worse. 3,000 miles passed, and still the oil leak was getting a little worse. After 3,500 miles I drained the oil and refilled with Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 and a fresh Purelator One filter.

During this time I began speaking to local shops regarding what the cause could be, as Auto-RX states that it cannot under any circumstances cause harm to seals. The overwhelming conscensus was that a cam seal had torn. So I contacted Auto-RX again to get their opinion on what could be going on. And once again Rich Ukland answered my email. Wherein he said that it could be a stuck PCV valve, maybe some dirt had dislodged and gotteen stuck in the seal causing the leak, or that it could also be a torn seal. He offered that he could look into getting a complimentary bottle of Auto-RX sent to me if a new PCV wouldn't solve the problem.

After a few days I decided that I would I would take Rich up on his offer of a complimentary bottle of Auto-RX. I sent an email in on July 22nd, wherein I asked if he could look into getting another bottle of Auto-RX sent to me. Here is where the otherwise good customer service experience went completely down hill. Rich was out on vacation and now Frank Miller (the owner of the company) was answering the emails. Here is his response to the email I wrote:

"Hello Rich is on vacation. Why would we send you a free bottle of Auto-Rx ?"

Brief to say the least. But I oblidged to tell him why a free bottle might be sent to me with this reply:

"Well first and foremost Rich said that he'd look into it. To give you the back story: after my first treatment of Auto-RX I developed an oil leak from a cam seal, I had hoped that it would have gone away but it still persists 5000 miles after the treatment oil had been drained."

Now keep in mind that Auto-RX uses a gmail account for their customer service email. So Frank would have full access to the string of emails that had been sent. Here is the response I received from Frank, along with the rest of the email conversation. His emails are Bolded, mine are italicized:

"WHAT IS THE OIL YOUR USING ? "

"I ran Valvoline conventional through it for the treatment oil and the oil change after. It currently has Pennzoil Ultra in it."

"This is from our website " Drain the Ultra go back to Valvoline Conventinal the leak will stop." He copy/pasted a portion of the website that went over why you should not use Pennzoil Ultra or other PAO based oils in conjunction with an Auto-RX treatment. Keep in mind that at this point my motor had not had Auto-RX in it for 5000 miles.

"I had run Valvoline convention through it for after the treatment 3000 miles and the leak showed no signs of stopping. I do plan on changing back to a conventional oil as the price of the pennzoil ultra is prohibitive given that the car is leaking more than 1 quart every 1000 miles currently. To clarify, Pennzoil Ultra and Auto-RX have *NOT* been in the motor at the same time, only Valvoline Conventional was used with Auto-RX and in the oil change following the Auto-RX treatment."

"**** is is the complex additive package in the full synthetic oil that caused the leak to come back. If your saying it leaked after you completed rinse mode with Valvoline Conventinal oil ? than you have a torn or ripped seal. Which will have to be replaced." He clearly had not understood that the oil leak began during the original Auto-RX treatment and had not stopped since.

"That is exactly what I am saying, the leak developed at the end of the treatment cycle and persisted through the rinse and into this current oil change. I have an appointment on monday to have the seal replaced which will be roughly $400. Needless to say I am very much less than thrilled to be having to spend $400 to replace a seal with less than 10k miles on it after using your product. I would appreciate some assistance in repairing this damage that your product caused."

"Auto-Rx can't cause a sel leak and it can't repair a torn seal Based on your e-mails think you should step to the plate and recognise your own inability to except a mechanical problem. If you added more Auto-Rx after the application was complete you need to tell me perhaps i can save you a repair bill also if you used a full synthetic right after the Auto-rx Application you need to tell me by right after i mean with in 500 miles after Your Auto-rx application was finished. " I was willing to recount all of the steps I had taken with the original Auto-RX treatment. But it was at this point when Frank began getting hostile with me simply because I requested some sort of assistance with the oil leak that started during the Auto-RX treatment. This response caused me to reel, was this person really a representative of the company? Why would you be treating a customer like this, especially when they're having a rather serious issue?

"I really do not appreciate your condescending attitude and remarks regarding this matter.

I have told you, multiple times, that the oil I used with the Auto-RX treatment (when the leak started) was Valvoline Conventional, as is one of your recommended oils. The oil change immediately after that treatment cycle was ALSO Valvoline Conventional, as is the recommendation. The leak began roughly 1000 miles into the treatment cycle, and has not stopped in the 5000 miles since.

This is not my inability to "except" a mechanical problem, this is your product causing a seal to degrade in such a manner as to cause this oil leak. I have not added any further Auto-RX to any of the following oil changes as I had read the seal leak application documentation that you replied with. If you believe that another treatment of Auto-RX will remedy the situation, by all means send me another bottle and I will put it in with my next oil change. However, given the amount of oil that is leaking from the seal, I do not believe this is simply a pliable seal. I have attached several photographs that show how oily the undercarriage of the car is now due to this oil leak and the size of the oil stain on my driveway from this oil leak. Previous to this my vehicle had never dripped a single drop of oil in it's lifetime, the undercarriage was only every covered with road dust and dirt. It is now covered in a film of oil."
I sent him these four photos which show how much oil is leaking from the seal: http://i.imgur.com/m2UAo.jpg http://i.imgur.com/H0kfC.jpg http://i.imgur.com/bU9Hw.jpg http://i.imgur.com/PbOJC.jpg

"If i am to accept you did the application absoulutely correct than your leak it is because it is ripped or torn.We don't fix this problem. Another bottle of Auto-Rx will not fix a ripped or torn seal. In 10 years we have never "degraded a seal" our chemistry does not swell seals. This string has riun it's course."

This is far and away the absolute worst customer service experience I have ever had. This is how they stand by their product. I will never purchase another product from Auto-RX or Frank Miller ever again. I am having the seals replaced at my expense and will be telling everyone I can to avoid Auto-RX like the plague. Buy some other competing product, do not give this man your hard earned money. You'll just get thrown to the side like I did.

With further research I found this thread: http://mercurymarauder.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=56544 If what is said there is true, then this is very damning evidence against Auto-RX

Last edited by Amandyke; 07-25-2011 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 07-25-2011, 04:45 PM   #2
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Here is a link to the post I made on their forum: Terrible experience with Auto-RX, Is it The Product Or Me ? (read all posts on this topic) - Questions & Answers

Assuming they don't delete it just look at their responses to the post. Don't let that be you.
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Old 07-30-2011, 03:30 PM   #3
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Thanks for your informative write up. Forums are great because of individual experiences. I personally think you just got screwed. Are there other complaints about Auto-RX? This is the first I've heard of the brand myself, so obviously i have no background knowledge of this what so ever. I was wondering if you were just a person with bad luck. Regardless... if the product fails, I would like to think companies will hold responsibility. I am a person who is willing to pay a lot for a good product, but if all else fails, it's nice to be taken care of.

Again, thanks for your warning.
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Old 01-12-2014, 10:40 PM   #4
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TOPIC: Terrible experience with Auto-RX, Is it The Product Or Me ? (read all posts on this topic)



TornSeals3





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Date: 05:04 PM Jul 25, 2011


Terrible experience with Auto-RX, Is it The Product Or Me ? (read all posts on this topic)











I am writing to anyone that might be on the fence about purchasing a treatment or two of Auto-RX. In few words, Don't Do it. Allow me to go into the background of my issue.

I have a 2003 wrx that was burning around .75 quarts of oil every thousand miles or so. Thinking that it might be a stuck ring land I came across Auto-RX that claimed it could free up stuck ring lands, increase cylinder pressures, and reduce oil blow by. "GREAT!" I thought to myself, this is exactly what I needed. So after speaking with Rich Eklund regarding what oil to use in my treatment cycle I settled on Valvoline Conventional 5w30 for both the treatment oil, and the rinse oil.

Roughly 1000-1500 miles into the treatment an oil leak developed on the drivers side of my motor, at first I thought it might have been the valve cover gasket. So I looked on the Auto-RX website and saw that there was a possibility that Auto-RX could make your seals more pliable. "Seems plausible" I thought to myself, the FAQ said that it could take up to 3000 miles for the seals to re-seal and after that everything should be golden. So I waited, drained out the Auto-RX treatment oil and refilled with clean Valvoline 5w30 and a fresh Purelator One filter. 1,000 miles passed, no change in the leak. 2,000 miles passed, still no change in fact it was getting worse. 3,000 miles passed, and still the oil leak was getting a little worse. After 3,500 miles I drained the oil and refilled with Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 and a fresh Purelator One filter.

During this time I began speaking to local shops regarding what the cause could be, as Auto-RX states that it cannot under any circumstances cause harm to seals. The overwhelming conscensus was that a cam seal had torn. So I contacted Auto-RX again to get their opinion on what could be going on. And once again Rich Ukland answered my email. Wherein he said that it could be a stuck PCV valve, maybe some dirt had dislodged and gotteen stuck in the seal causing the leak, or that it could also be a torn seal. He offered that he could look into getting a complimentary bottle of Auto-RX sent to me if a new PCV wouldn't solve the problem.

After a few days I decided that I would I would take Rich up on his offer of a complimentary bottle of Auto-RX. I sent an email in on July 22nd, wherein I asked if he could look into getting another bottle of Auto-RX sent to me. Here is where the otherwise good customer service experience went completely down hill. Rich was out on vacation and now Frank Miller (the owner of the company) was answering the emails. Here is his response to the email I wrote:

"Hello Rich is on vacation. Why would we send you a free bottle of Auto-Rx ?"

Brief to say the least. But I oblidged to tell him why a free bottle might be sent to me with this reply:

"Well first and foremost Rich said that he'd look into it. To give you the back story: after my first treatment of Auto-RX I developed an oil leak from a cam seal, I had hoped that it would have gone away but it still persists 5000 miles after the treatment oil had been drained."

Now keep in mind that Auto-RX uses a gmail account for their customer service email. So Frank would have full access to the string of emails that had been sent. Here is the response I received from Frank, along with the rest of the email conversation. His emails are Bolded, mine are italicized:

"WHAT IS THE OIL YOUR USING ? "

"I ran Valvoline conventional through it for the treatment oil and the oil change after. It currently has Pennzoil Ultra in it."

"This is from our website " Drain the Ultra go back to Valvoline Conventinal the leak will stop." He copy/pasted a portion of the website that went over why you should not use Pennzoil Ultra or other PAO based oils in conjunction with an Auto-RX treatment. Keep in mind that at this point my motor had not had Auto-RX in it for 5000 miles.

"I had run Valvoline convention through it for after the treatment 3000 miles and the leak showed no signs of stopping. I do plan on changing back to a conventional oil as the price of the pennzoil ultra is prohibitive given that the car is leaking more than 1 quart every 1000 miles currently. To clarify, Pennzoil Ultra and Auto-RX have *NOT* been in the motor at the same time, only Valvoline Conventional was used with Auto-RX and in the oil change following the Auto-RX treatment."

"**** is is the complex additive package in the full synthetic oil that caused the leak to come back. If your saying it leaked after you completed rinse mode with Valvoline Conventinal oil ? than you have a torn or ripped seal. Which will have to be replaced." He clearly had not understood that the oil leak began during the original Auto-RX treatment and had not stopped since.

"That is exactly what I am saying, the leak developed at the end of the treatment cycle and persisted through the rinse and into this current oil change. I have an appointment on monday to have the seal replaced which will be roughly $400. Needless to say I am very much less than thrilled to be having to spend $400 to replace a seal with less than 10k miles on it after using your product. I would appreciate some assistance in repairing this damage that your product caused."

"Auto-Rx can't cause a sel leak and it can't repair a torn seal Based on your e-mails think you should step to the plate and recognise your own inability to except a mechanical problem. If you added more Auto-Rx after the application was complete you need to tell me perhaps i can save you a repair bill also if you used a full synthetic right after the Auto-rx Application you need to tell me by right after i mean with in 500 miles after Your Auto-rx application was finished. " I was willing to recount all of the steps I had taken with the original Auto-RX treatment. But it was at this point when Frank began getting hostile with me simply because I requested some sort of assistance with the oil leak that started during the Auto-RX treatment. This response caused me to reel, was this person really a representative of the company? Why would you be treating a customer like this, especially when they're having a rather serious issue?

"I really do not appreciate your condescending attitude and remarks regarding this matter.

I have told you, multiple times, that the oil I used with the Auto-RX treatment (when the leak started) was Valvoline Conventional, as is one of your recommended oils. The oil change immediately after that treatment cycle was ALSO Valvoline Conventional, as is the recommendation. The leak began roughly 1000 miles into the treatment cycle, and has not stopped in the 5000 miles since.


This is not my inability to "except" a mechanical problem, this is your product causing a seal to degrade in such a manner as to cause this oil leak. I have not added any further Auto-RX to any of the following oil changes as I had read the seal leak application documentation that you replied with. If you believe that another treatment of Auto-RX will remedy the situation, by all means send me another bottle and I will put it in with my next oil change. However, given the amount of oil that is leaking from the seal, I do not believe this is simply a pliable seal. I have attached several photographs that show how oily the undercarriage of the car is now due to this oil leak and the size of the oil stain on my driveway from this oil leak. Previous to this my vehicle had never dripped a single drop of oil in it's lifetime, the undercarriage was only every covered with road dust and dirt. It is now covered in a film of oil." I sent him these four photos which show how much oil is leaking from the seal: http://i.imgur.com/m2UAo.jpg http://i.imgur.com/H0kfC.jpg http://i.imgur.com/bU9Hw.jpg http://i.imgur.com/PbOJC.jpg


"If i am to accept you did the application absoulutely correct than your leak it is because it is ripped or torn.We don't fix this problem. Another bottle of Auto-Rx will not fix a ripped or torn seal. In 10 years we have never "degraded a seal" our chemistry does not swell seals. This string has riun it's course."





-


-- Edited by Frank on Monday 25th of July 2011 06:34:47 PM

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Terrible experience with Auto-RX, customer service experience was worse








I don't delete anyones post at any time you are a type person who revels in half truths. Our seal application clearly states our policy. You call people using profanity when all your posts show 1-You had leaks before you ever bought Auto-Rx 2- You used a full synthetic when we spent time to and effort to explain to you don't do so. 3- I gave you a work around your own mistakes you did not take it. 4- Asking Auto-Rx for free product or helping you pay for your mistake last and not least to give you arefund for public relations good will or you will destroy Auto-Rx .

You are a "Troll" much like the indivual you quoted from the link you mentioned. I am sorry that your seals leaks you should have tried to remedy that as we e-mailed you to do. I would have gladly given you your purchase price back however when you cursed at me that thought left. Why don't you just walk away ?


-- Edited by Frank on Monday 25th of July 2011 06:23:48 PM

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dbdeland





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Terrible experience with Auto-RX, Is it The Product Or Me ? (read all posts on this topic)








I am the Administrator of the ARX forum and the one that bans members for bashing Auto- Rx and not Frank, if you continue I will permanently ban you.

Daryl Baines

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-- Edited by Frank on Monday 25th of July 2011 06:40:15 PM

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dbdeland





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RE: Terrible experience with Auto-RX, customer service experience was worse








You also used frankmiller@autorx.com email as your own to get back on the ARX forum and that is illegal and shows how much creditability you have you will be banned and turned over to the proper authorities.



Daryl Baines

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Richone





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Date: 06:34 PM Jul 25, 2011






Wow. It would appear that there exists a bunch of miscomunication going on here. And from both sides. First of all Auto-Rx did not create the seal leak. It really has little to no impact on any seal material, other than cleaning hardened oxidized oil deposits from the surface. In doing so oil can help carry away heat from the polymer seal and extend its life. But as far as ARX swelling a seal that is simply not the case. In immersion test in staight ARX, the product does not swell seals.

On the other side of the coin, it sounds like the application was done correctly. I think that the seal issue may just be coincidental. The motor is a rebuild, with only 10,000 miles. I am wondering if the cams were replaced as part of the rebuild or if these are the original cam seals. These little performance motors are quite tough on seals, from my reading on the internet, just from google searches. Besides, if Auto-Rx caused seal leaks then you would have leaks on the other end of the cam(s) and crank seals as well.

I had orginally offered a comp bottle, just in case a small amount of engine deposits collected under the seal lip during the cleaning process. It was a long shot, in that there is little chance of this happening, due to ARX slowly dissolving deposits, no chunks like with solvent flushes. Besides with only 10K on a rebuild the motor should have been pretty clean to start with.

Personally I would have given the ARX another shot, just to rule out the long shot, which is why I offered to check into a comp. bottle. But this has gotten out of control. Sometimes things happen that is not anybody's fault. A piece of polymer failed, it happens every day.

Rich


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dbdeland





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RE: Terrible experience with Auto-RX, Is it The Product Or Me ? (read all posts on this topic)








We just blocked a customer who tried to blame Auto-Rx for seal damage he has incurred. If the truth be known, if there is seal damage, it was there and he knew about it before purchasing Auto-Rx and now is trying to blackmail Auto-Rx. In a telephone call to Frank, he wanted free product (no), then some financial consideration for problems of his own making (againno). Frank is not paying anything, but he did spend time developing a workaround to correct the problem the poster created by using a full synthetic oil. Of course, this was of no interest.

Auto-Rx has a fine guarantee and otherwise could not have been in business over 10 years. Unfortunately, there will always be people looking to see how they can make money by threats and cursing.

If you see his post on any board and have questions, just call Frank. "Torn Seals" is the kind of seat mate we all have had in our airline travels. As Board Administrator, I have blocked this "FLAME" and its poster.

Daryl Baines

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yarbrough





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RE: Terrible experience with Auto-RX, customer service experience was worse







is it possible sludge formation was causing the bad seal not to leak? and then when it was gone the leak showed up?


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Frank





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Date: 06:53 PM Jul 25, 2011


Terrible experience with Auto-RX, Is it The Product Or Me ? (read all posts on this topic)








No i have copied what was posted above by Rich. Sludge causes leaks.

On the other side of the coin, it sounds like the application was done correctly. I think that the seal issue may just be coincidental. The motor is a rebuild, with only 10,000 miles. I am wondering if the cams were replaced as part of the rebuild or if these are the original cam seals. These little performance motors are quite tough on seals, from my reading on the internet, just from google searches. Besides, if Auto-Rx caused seal leaks then you would have leaks on the other end of the cam(s) and crank seals as well.

When somebody has to falsify an e-mail address to post than IMO that post is not to be trusted for truthful text.


-- Edited by Frank on Monday 25th of July 2011 06:57:30 PM

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TurboJim





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Date: 09:52 PM Jul 25, 2011







Here are the instructions for seal leaks - http://www.auto-rx.com/sealleaks.html

Does seem odd that a cam seal would fail in less than 10,000 miles. Unfortunately we may never know "why". Since ARX is such a gentle cleaner I would look elsewhere for the cause.


-- Edited by TurboJim on Monday 25th of July 2011 09:53:13 PM

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onthefritz8





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Date: 10:45 PM Jul 25, 2011






I'm quite sure that if Auto-RX was causing engine and gasket problems it would be all over the internet by now. I've used it in two cars treating the engine and transmission and have not had a single problem with the results. Granted I may not have noticed much changes in the before and after but it didn't harm anything and in one car my gas mileage did improve.


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This is the original thread from the auto-rx board, you can judge for yourself how the OP was treated.
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:35 AM   #5
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Big Bear,

That was actually the 3rd or 4th thread that I made on that forum.you can easily tell by the user name. I incremented or up by one each time they banned me for posting exactly what I posted to this thread. Also note that there are no posts by me in the thread aside from the op. That is because they banned me right after I had posted it. Further note that Frank edited the op, the name calling by their staff, and the wild accusations of black mail they claim further down. To this day I still deter people from using that product and am proud that this thread is the#4 US Google result and #2 UK Google result.

I stand by everything that I said in this op as the truth of the situation and to the best of my ability of relating the events.
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:59 AM   #6
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Terrible experience with Auto-RX, customer service experience was worse (Preview) Auto-Rx Plus For Engines 0 14
12:14 PM Jul 25, 2011
by TornSeals

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Terrible experience with Auto-RX, customer service experience was worse (Preview) Auto-Rx Plus For Engines 0 16
12:41 PM Jul 25, 2011
by TornSeals


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Terrible experience with Auto-RX, customer service experience was worse (Preview) Auto-Rx Plus For Engines 0 13
12:48 PM Jul 25, 2011
by TornSeals2

It seems Amandyke started 3 threads with no response and then on the 4th thread he was successful. You can see that threads were started at

12:14 p.m.
12:41 p.m.
12:48 p.m.
5:04 p.m.

Since auto-rx 1st started there business they have treated anyone who complained about there product just like they treated Amandyke. I am sure Amandyke wants this thread to be about auto-rx's customer service and not about whether it works or not. In the summer of 2013 auto-rx got rid of there money back guarantee and they changed the name of there product to Auto-Rx Plus. Usually companies change the name of there product when it has a bad reputation.
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