Well Done Abortion Site
05-13-2005, 03:36 PM
#1
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Well Done Abortion Site
Looks at it from many angles.
http://www.abort73.com/
http://www.abort73.com/
Last edited by FUNKED1; 05-13-2005 at 03:41 PM.
05-13-2005, 04:31 PM
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that is a powerful intro clip.
i wish that we had more social measures in place to accomodate children who would have otherwise been aborted. but realistically, programs for kids seems to be at the top of most politicians lists for the axe. new taxes? nah, cut after school funding and the like. after all, kids dont vote!
i wish that we had more social measures in place to accomodate children who would have otherwise been aborted. but realistically, programs for kids seems to be at the top of most politicians lists for the axe. new taxes? nah, cut after school funding and the like. after all, kids dont vote!
05-13-2005, 04:48 PM
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"there is no debate within the medical community as to when life begins. Life begins at conception."
wait... what?
So, upon conception, that mere conglomerate of cells is capable of living on it's own? If we're getting technical about the term 'life'- those cells are certainly 'alive,' as their cellular processes have not ceased. But if were gonna try to preserve every living cell that may potentially become part of a human being, somebody's got a messy job to do.
By starting off like this- It's hard to believe this site takes a look at the issue 'from all sides' as you say it does. I'll admit- I was deterred by the first paragraph and didn't care to read the rest.
wait... what?
So, upon conception, that mere conglomerate of cells is capable of living on it's own? If we're getting technical about the term 'life'- those cells are certainly 'alive,' as their cellular processes have not ceased. But if were gonna try to preserve every living cell that may potentially become part of a human being, somebody's got a messy job to do.
By starting off like this- It's hard to believe this site takes a look at the issue 'from all sides' as you say it does. I'll admit- I was deterred by the first paragraph and didn't care to read the rest.
05-13-2005, 05:01 PM
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This is from loxafamosity.com, the corporation of ministries that created and support that abort73 site:
"Loxafamosity.com stands on the firm conviction that truth is knowable because truth is absolute...As such, Loxafamosity.com rests squarely on the complete authority of scripture as revealed in the 66 books of the Bible...Our perspective is a biblical one because biblical truth is true everywhere, and for everyone. The Bible, in fact, reveals that every person throughout all of human history has been created with an inherent understanding that there is a God (Rom. 1:19), that we are His creation (Rom 1:19), that we have violated His law (Rom. 2:15), and that we are fit to be judged (Rom. 1:32)."
Are they kidding?
Yeah- just let yourself be led by the writings of some centuries old 'truth-teller,' and you will most definitely obtain the knowable, absolute truth.
"Loxafamosity.com stands on the firm conviction that truth is knowable because truth is absolute...As such, Loxafamosity.com rests squarely on the complete authority of scripture as revealed in the 66 books of the Bible...Our perspective is a biblical one because biblical truth is true everywhere, and for everyone. The Bible, in fact, reveals that every person throughout all of human history has been created with an inherent understanding that there is a God (Rom. 1:19), that we are His creation (Rom 1:19), that we have violated His law (Rom. 2:15), and that we are fit to be judged (Rom. 1:32)."
Are they kidding?
Yeah- just let yourself be led by the writings of some centuries old 'truth-teller,' and you will most definitely obtain the knowable, absolute truth.
Last edited by scoobsport98; 05-13-2005 at 05:05 PM.
05-13-2005, 05:02 PM
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Yeah, I'm not sure what medical community the article is talking about. The medical community I am able to observe does not agree that life begins at conception. Some say it does, but some say it's at implantation, some when the embryo becomes bilaterally symetrical (as opposed to more symetry than that), some when organs are identifiable, some say not until the fetus is able to sustain life on it's own. But saying that life begins at conception is literally a leap of faith that has more to do with one's belief (or lack thereof) in a 'soul' than it does with one's medical knowledge of the subject.
05-13-2005, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MVWRX
Yeah, I'm not sure what medical community the article is talking about. The medical community I am able to observe does not agree that life begins at conception. Some say it does, but some say it's at implantation, some when the embryo becomes bilaterally symetrical (as opposed to more symetry than that), some when organs are identifiable, some say not until the fetus is able to sustain life on it's own. But saying that life begins at conception is literally a leap of faith that has more to do with one's belief (or lack thereof) in a 'soul' than it does with one's medical knowledge of the subject.
05-13-2005, 06:22 PM
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I think they do a good job looking at it from many angles, biological, political, philosophical, financial, racial, historical, etc. They don't even get to religion until they've already constructed a solid case for their position. That's the beauty of this site: you need a religious background to believe that abortion is wrong in most cases.
Also note that they can construct an argument without resorting to bashing those who disagree with them on the basis of their religious beliefs. Unlike present company. There are 32 sections devoted to secular issues and only 5 devoted to theological issues, but still you guys focus on the faith of the people who wrote the material rather than the actual material. Go look up "ad hominem fallacy" some time.
Also note that they can construct an argument without resorting to bashing those who disagree with them on the basis of their religious beliefs. Unlike present company. There are 32 sections devoted to secular issues and only 5 devoted to theological issues, but still you guys focus on the faith of the people who wrote the material rather than the actual material. Go look up "ad hominem fallacy" some time.
Last edited by FUNKED1; 05-13-2005 at 06:42 PM.
05-13-2005, 06:38 PM
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nice ninja edit- was 'unlike present company' referring to me? (after the first sentence of your second paragraph)
All I was trying to do was undercut their 'objectivity' on the subject. If they take the bible as the absolute truth, it looks like THEY are focusing (and blindly following, I might add) on the faith of the people who wrote the material. I don't even want to read the rest of their 'truth-telling,' because I know that a bias will permeate any point they are trying to make.
As for the 'ad hominem fallacy'...
(for others watching)
Ad hominem: Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason
I think this is the exact problem with those who are vehemently pro-life. And with those who try to impose their faith-based 'moral' standards on others who don't share their belief system.
I dont care if there are 32 'secular' issues. Do they have a 'secular' take on any one of those issues? Answer that question.
All I was trying to do was undercut their 'objectivity' on the subject. If they take the bible as the absolute truth, it looks like THEY are focusing (and blindly following, I might add) on the faith of the people who wrote the material. I don't even want to read the rest of their 'truth-telling,' because I know that a bias will permeate any point they are trying to make.
As for the 'ad hominem fallacy'...
(for others watching)
Ad hominem: Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason
I think this is the exact problem with those who are vehemently pro-life. And with those who try to impose their faith-based 'moral' standards on others who don't share their belief system.
I dont care if there are 32 'secular' issues. Do they have a 'secular' take on any one of those issues? Answer that question.
Last edited by scoobsport98; 05-13-2005 at 06:49 PM.
05-13-2005, 06:51 PM
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Sorry I wasn't trying to trick you. I just made a mistake editing.
Of course they aren't objective. They have a point of view and the purpose of the site is to justify that point of view. The reason I posted it is because it is a rare anti-abortion site that focuses on secular issues instead of theological ones. As an agnostic this interests me far more than material that focuses on religious issues regarding abortion, which seems to be the norm.
I think it's quite clear that they are not focusing on faith. They went to great lengths to construct an argument that does not require faith.
Of course they aren't objective. They have a point of view and the purpose of the site is to justify that point of view. The reason I posted it is because it is a rare anti-abortion site that focuses on secular issues instead of theological ones. As an agnostic this interests me far more than material that focuses on religious issues regarding abortion, which seems to be the norm.
If they take the bible as the absolute truth, it looks like THEY are focusing (and blindly following, I might add) on the faith of the people who wrote the material.
05-13-2005, 06:56 PM
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Maybe this will help you understand Ad Hominem and how it describes your post above. http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#hominem
You are dismissing all of their arguments because of their christian faith. Even though only a few of those arguments have anything to do with the bible or christian teachings.
You are dismissing all of their arguments because of their christian faith. Even though only a few of those arguments have anything to do with the bible or christian teachings.
05-13-2005, 07:03 PM
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Anyways, back on topic, you guys pointed out that it was silly of them to state that " there is no debate within the medical community as to when life begins", and I agree. But certainly they did make a case (via the literature references) that there is medical support for their position.
And in general, I think they do a good job. It's a well done site that looks at abortion from more than just the stereotypical "cos god sez so" angle.
And in general, I think they do a good job. It's a well done site that looks at abortion from more than just the stereotypical "cos god sez so" angle.
05-13-2005, 07:21 PM
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I remember when I was just a conglomerate of cells in my mom. I sat there thinking, just give me a chance mom, do the right thing. Oh, actually I wasn't. What the hell am I thinking. 4000 a day, every day? Imagine the over population problems we'd have if there was no abortion....We'd be like China. Only two kids allowed,..then we'd start killing off the daughters so that we could try and have a son...it would be brutal...lol. Then the government would start executing for things like tax evasion....
05-13-2005, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisnonstop
Imagine the over population problems we'd have if there was no abortion....We'd be like China.....
If there weren't any abortions here we might actually be able to slow legal immigration, of which the purpose is to maintain the existing population and tax base.
Haven't you noticed that immigrants breed like rabbits? We're going to have to establish a quota at this pace already.
05-13-2005, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisnonstop
I remember when I was just a conglomerate of cells in my mom. I sat there thinking, just give me a chance mom, do the right thing. Oh, actually I wasn't. What the hell am I thinking. 4000 a day, every day? Imagine the over population problems we'd have if there was no abortion....We'd be like China. Only two kids allowed,..then we'd start killing off the daughters so that we could try and have a son...it would be brutal...lol. Then the government would start executing for things like tax evasion....
05-14-2005, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by HellaDumb
Haven't you noticed that immigrants breed like rabbits? We're going to have to establish a quota at this pace already.