Voltage Vs. Amp's
04-24-2005, 03:34 PM
#1
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Voltage Vs. Amp's
SO recently I have been hearing alot about new amps coming out than run on a cars voltage system instead on the amount of amps a car can put out. Now I am not quite clear on how it works but from what I understand you can run more amplifiers with less power = more watts with better quatily. Is this the avenue to follow?
For example check out the diamond line of amps, --- post your opinion on what you think of the topic.
For example check out the diamond line of amps, --- post your opinion on what you think of the topic.
04-24-2005, 04:58 PM
#2
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Huh?
A car's electrical system operates at 12V, or actually 13.5-14.5V with the engine running and a properly functioning alternator and regulator. Any device, amp or whatever, will draw whatever current it needs to operate as long as the system has sufficient capacity to support it. There is no "voltage sytem" or "current system".
A car's electrical system operates at 12V, or actually 13.5-14.5V with the engine running and a properly functioning alternator and regulator. Any device, amp or whatever, will draw whatever current it needs to operate as long as the system has sufficient capacity to support it. There is no "voltage sytem" or "current system".
04-24-2005, 07:02 PM
#3
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If you look at the new diamond amps, the D-9 line they run on voltage. Instead of using a large power wire like 2 guage they use smaller gauge wire.
This quote is straight off of the web site.
"· S.T.R.E.E.T. - Symmetrical Topology Regulated Extreme Efficiency Triple-Split-Rail Power supply
· Zero-Noise Isolated input Section utilizing Quasi-differential instrumentation Amplifier Technology
· Up to 12vRMS Input signal Voltage Capability (with -12dB attenuator) "
They still draw power but not in the same way. They don't require 80 amps of power or up like the other amps their size.
This quote is straight off of the web site.
"· S.T.R.E.E.T. - Symmetrical Topology Regulated Extreme Efficiency Triple-Split-Rail Power supply
· Zero-Noise Isolated input Section utilizing Quasi-differential instrumentation Amplifier Technology
· Up to 12vRMS Input signal Voltage Capability (with -12dB attenuator) "
They still draw power but not in the same way. They don't require 80 amps of power or up like the other amps their size.
Last edited by yamaharacerx; 04-24-2005 at 07:16 PM.
04-27-2005, 10:28 PM
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O.K. Voltage and current (Amps) are two different things that are always tied together, kind of like horse power and torque. All modern amps are designed to run on 12 Volts DC because that is what our cars use (You have a 12 Volt Battery). Since our voltage is somewhat fixed ie. 11.5 to 14.5 volts in order for one amp to put out more power then another it has only two options. It must either be more effecient at what it does or make up for the lack of voltage buy pulling more current. Most of todays amps run at about 50% effeciency meaning that for every watt they put into a speaker they turn at least one watt into heat. That is why you have large heatsinks and fans to keep things cool. There are two different types of power supply designs favored today in the car audio world, one is "Regulated" (This includes JL Slash series amps, Diamond D7 and D9 and Old PPI Power Class amps) and the other is (You guessed it) "Unregulated" (Pretty much everybody else).
Both designs have positives and negatives and you have to way out which is more important to you. Regulated amps- A well designed regulated amp will always try to provide full power even as battery voltage drops. This gives you consistant power that you can always count on. The bad news is that as power (Car voltage) drops in extreme instances the amp will keep trying to make full rated power and will increase its current demands as the cars battery voltage drops. This causes it to drop faster and as current demands rise so does the heat because as current demands rise, effeciency drops through the floor. This creates a cycle that ends with broken amps and speakers and a very dead battery.
Unregulated- These amps will have wildly varying output rating depending on the cars voltage and the speaker impedance. These amps make alot of cheap power when the going is good. Meaning that when battery voltage is high so is your output power, but as battery voltage drops so does power output to your speakers. These amps are used alot in SPL comps because if you run a 15 volt system you cam make a heap of power. They will also put out more power as the speaker ohm load is dropped as long as the device and the cars battery can keep up with the current demand.
From what I have read, Diamond has no real new technology, simply some cool buzz words. The D9 is supposed to be a regulted power supply amp. If it is anything like the D7 it replaces I would stay far away. If you are looking for a amp with a fairly high effeciency design check out the Boston Acoustics amps and if you want a great regulated amp check out the JL Audio "Slash" series amps. A 500/1 and a 450/4 would be a great combo from JL and a GT22 or 24 and a GT40 or 42 from Boston would also do the trick.
Good Luck
Scott
Both designs have positives and negatives and you have to way out which is more important to you. Regulated amps- A well designed regulated amp will always try to provide full power even as battery voltage drops. This gives you consistant power that you can always count on. The bad news is that as power (Car voltage) drops in extreme instances the amp will keep trying to make full rated power and will increase its current demands as the cars battery voltage drops. This causes it to drop faster and as current demands rise so does the heat because as current demands rise, effeciency drops through the floor. This creates a cycle that ends with broken amps and speakers and a very dead battery.
Unregulated- These amps will have wildly varying output rating depending on the cars voltage and the speaker impedance. These amps make alot of cheap power when the going is good. Meaning that when battery voltage is high so is your output power, but as battery voltage drops so does power output to your speakers. These amps are used alot in SPL comps because if you run a 15 volt system you cam make a heap of power. They will also put out more power as the speaker ohm load is dropped as long as the device and the cars battery can keep up with the current demand.
From what I have read, Diamond has no real new technology, simply some cool buzz words. The D9 is supposed to be a regulted power supply amp. If it is anything like the D7 it replaces I would stay far away. If you are looking for a amp with a fairly high effeciency design check out the Boston Acoustics amps and if you want a great regulated amp check out the JL Audio "Slash" series amps. A 500/1 and a 450/4 would be a great combo from JL and a GT22 or 24 and a GT40 or 42 from Boston would also do the trick.
Good Luck
Scott
04-28-2005, 07:12 PM
#5
scott,
what the <bleep> are you talking about...
jk.... nice write up.
dont forget a few years ago, the push for the CLASS D amps, which they claimed to be digital and had a efficiency of close to 90%.
them puppies were small due to the smaller chassis and heat sink designs that where close to eliminated....
what ever happened to them?
what the <bleep> are you talking about...
jk.... nice write up.
dont forget a few years ago, the push for the CLASS D amps, which they claimed to be digital and had a efficiency of close to 90%.
them puppies were small due to the smaller chassis and heat sink designs that where close to eliminated....
what ever happened to them?
04-28-2005, 07:28 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by yamaharacerx
If you look at the new diamond amps, the D-9 line they run on voltage. Instead of using a large power wire like 2 guage they use smaller gauge wire.
This quote is straight off of the web site.
"· S.T.R.E.E.T. - Symmetrical Topology Regulated Extreme Efficiency Triple-Split-Rail Power supply
· Zero-Noise Isolated input Section utilizing Quasi-differential instrumentation Amplifier Technology
· Up to 12vRMS Input signal Voltage Capability (with -12dB attenuator) "
They still draw power but not in the same way. They don't require 80 amps of power or up like the other amps their size.
This quote is straight off of the web site.
"· S.T.R.E.E.T. - Symmetrical Topology Regulated Extreme Efficiency Triple-Split-Rail Power supply
· Zero-Noise Isolated input Section utilizing Quasi-differential instrumentation Amplifier Technology
· Up to 12vRMS Input signal Voltage Capability (with -12dB attenuator) "
They still draw power but not in the same way. They don't require 80 amps of power or up like the other amps their size.
04-28-2005, 08:35 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by bpang1
You just quoted the input signal voltage...isn't that the signal that comes from your head unit?
It was the first line that I was intersted in. " S.T.R.E.E.T. - Symmetrical Topology Regulated Extreme Efficiency Triple-Split-Rail Power supply "
Thanks alot Scott. Your awsome.
Last edited by yamaharacerx; 04-28-2005 at 08:38 PM.
04-28-2005, 08:52 PM
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[QUOTE]dont forget a few years ago, the push for the CLASS D amps, which they claimed to be digital and had a efficiency of close to 90%.
them puppies were small due to the smaller chassis and heat sink designs that where close to eliminated....
what ever happened to them?[QUOTE]
They didn't work. I believe you are talking about the Blade amp company and they were way to ahead of their time. We won't see any real leaps in effeciency until automakers go to the 72 volt system. Then amps will get real small and we can run smaller power wire.
Later
Scott
them puppies were small due to the smaller chassis and heat sink designs that where close to eliminated....
what ever happened to them?[QUOTE]
They didn't work. I believe you are talking about the Blade amp company and they were way to ahead of their time. We won't see any real leaps in effeciency until automakers go to the 72 volt system. Then amps will get real small and we can run smaller power wire.
Later
Scott
04-29-2005, 11:15 AM
#10
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Ya I got that. Thank though. I have a mtx 81000D amp and it's alright. It just draws so man amps from my system. I have to use a 150amp circut breaker for it + a 1.5 fard cap ( I know Caps are more like bandades). On a stock subaru alt. === bad news. I have the optima up front but whats the beest step to take in supplying more power to the amp.
04-29-2005, 02:08 PM
#11
[QUOTE=pdqwrx][QUOTE]dont forget a few years ago, the push for the CLASS D amps, which they claimed to be digital and had a efficiency of close to 90%.
them puppies were small due to the smaller chassis and heat sink designs that where close to eliminated....
what ever happened to them?
They didn't work. I believe you are talking about the Blade amp company and they were way to ahead of their time. We won't see any real leaps in effeciency until automakers go to the 72 volt system. Then amps will get real small and we can run smaller power wire.
Later
Scott
no, i think it was infinity. it was a tiny MF. back in the mid to late 90s....
them puppies were small due to the smaller chassis and heat sink designs that where close to eliminated....
what ever happened to them?
They didn't work. I believe you are talking about the Blade amp company and they were way to ahead of their time. We won't see any real leaps in effeciency until automakers go to the 72 volt system. Then amps will get real small and we can run smaller power wire.
Later
Scott
no, i think it was infinity. it was a tiny MF. back in the mid to late 90s....
04-29-2005, 04:56 PM
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most companies have a class D line which is great for subs, disturbing for mids and highs. They are fairly efficient because they run a lower duty cycle than AB(50%) or A(100%) because they use a PWM to drive the output fets. The Digital class D that was tried was pretty much the same topology as the PWM D amps except they took the digita in from the head unit and slapped a DAC in there to swing the output drivers. The only perk of the digital amps was signal integrity due to using an a digital signal(optical or otherwise) instead of running low voltage analog signals through a pair of unmatched RCAs.
Although the theory was sound I never really bought into it until I switch amps in my car. I went from a kicker ZR600(842w birth certificate) to a Kicker DX700(981w birth certificate) and oddly enough I gained a little spl, but my current draw was almost 30A less, from about 100A to about 70A, and the amp ran MUCH cooler than it's AB predecessor.
Especially with the weak alternator in the rex, I advocate using a Class D amp for pushing the boom boom and saving as much juice as possible to run the car, or get the alternator upgraded. Discerning people say they can hear the difference between AB and D on a sub, but personally I can't, although trying to put a full signal through a D is pretty horrid due to the frequency bandwidth limitations of .
To help with the intial question, your statement doesn't make sense. Voltage and current are not one in the same, but as was said you can't have one without the other.
Current is a measure of electrons per second(pretty much how much you have turned on the faucet). 1 amp is = to one coulomb of electrons for one second or 6.25x10+18 electrons(or holes) per second. Voltage is a measurement of force. It takes a 1 volt differential to move 1A through 1 ohm of resistance. A wise man named Georg Simon Ohm once stated "The amount of current flowing in a circuit made up of pure resistances is directly proportional to the electromotive forces impressed on the circuit and is inversely proportional to the total resistance of the circuit." Or in human speak. An increase in voltage in a circuit with static resistance, produces a linear rise in current. An increase in resistance in a circuit with static voltage produces a linear decrease in current. So to break it down, current is how many electrons per second are moving, voltage is how much force is being used to make those electrons move.
Although the theory was sound I never really bought into it until I switch amps in my car. I went from a kicker ZR600(842w birth certificate) to a Kicker DX700(981w birth certificate) and oddly enough I gained a little spl, but my current draw was almost 30A less, from about 100A to about 70A, and the amp ran MUCH cooler than it's AB predecessor.
Especially with the weak alternator in the rex, I advocate using a Class D amp for pushing the boom boom and saving as much juice as possible to run the car, or get the alternator upgraded. Discerning people say they can hear the difference between AB and D on a sub, but personally I can't, although trying to put a full signal through a D is pretty horrid due to the frequency bandwidth limitations of .
To help with the intial question, your statement doesn't make sense. Voltage and current are not one in the same, but as was said you can't have one without the other.
Current is a measure of electrons per second(pretty much how much you have turned on the faucet). 1 amp is = to one coulomb of electrons for one second or 6.25x10+18 electrons(or holes) per second. Voltage is a measurement of force. It takes a 1 volt differential to move 1A through 1 ohm of resistance. A wise man named Georg Simon Ohm once stated "The amount of current flowing in a circuit made up of pure resistances is directly proportional to the electromotive forces impressed on the circuit and is inversely proportional to the total resistance of the circuit." Or in human speak. An increase in voltage in a circuit with static resistance, produces a linear rise in current. An increase in resistance in a circuit with static voltage produces a linear decrease in current. So to break it down, current is how many electrons per second are moving, voltage is how much force is being used to make those electrons move.
Last edited by illusion; 04-29-2005 at 05:08 PM.
06-03-2005, 07:33 PM
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"they didn't work" what? class D amps are everywhere and are what almost all competitors use for power, unless you are going for ultimate SQ class D amps are the way to go. very efficient, 80-90% compare to the class a/b amps 40-50% the difference is class D can only do bass frequencies. As for the amps running on voltage system, that makes no sense. The triple rail power system i think it probly so it makes the same amount of wattage and 1, 2 and 4 ohm's by varying the power supply rail voltage.(most amps can't do this)
06-03-2005, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JHub908
"they didn't work" what? class D amps are everywhere and are what almost all competitors use for power, unless you are going for ultimate SQ class D amps are the way to go.
Later
Scott
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