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Old 07-09-2004, 12:29 AM   #1
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Arrow The Ultimate EJ18/EJ22 -> EJ25 Swap Thread

I have decided to consolidate some information about EJ25 swaps into older scoobs like mine into one thread. If anyone has anything else to add, feel free.

When it comes to the point where you realize you need more power in your old 1.8 L, or old legacy, or aging 2.2l outback sport, but you find that you have a limited pocket book as well as need something relatively simple. There is alot of info out there about turbo kits, and USDM swaps, but really when it comes to the budget scoob enthusiast or everyday joe who just needs to get up that steep hill a 2.5 (EJ25) swap is the way to go.

There are several different EJ25 motors out there. To get started, lets discuss the different motors and their positive and negative aspects.

The first EJ25's were in 1997 Legacies. They were a phase 1 motor, DOHC, MAF based, with less HP than every EJ25 from here on. Unless you plan to do alot of internal work, this might not be the motor for you.

The 98 RS 2.5 among other Scoobs, has the DOHC 165hp engine. It is also a phase 1 motor, which is a plus if you have a 93-97(perhaps 98 as well) L model Impreza with a 2.2 or 1.8. (I will explain more later) However, these engines are prone to headgasket failures among other things. If purchased, do replace the old headgasket with the new design 4 metal layer headgasket.

The 99 RS 2.5 was a mixed motor, it still MAF based (with a crappy MAF sensor prone to failure, surpisingly not as good as the earlier model MAF sensors using metal wire, it was recalled though and some motors may have it replaced), and 165hp, but is SOHC with phase 2 internals. It is somewhat more compatible with older models for swaps, but not as much as the MY98.

The 00-03 2.5's are all relativly the same, SOHC with a MAP based sensor, 165hp, and rather different wiring than the phase 1 motors. If you have a 00-01 L, this might be a good swap for you.

The 04 motors are only slightly different than the 00-03, they use a plastic intake manifold.

Extra 2.5 Info:
Quote:
EJ25 DOHC Phase I: Found in Legacies from 1996-1999, Imprezas in 1998, and Foresters in 1998. Rated at either 155hp and 140 ft-lbs in 1996 or 165hp and 162 ft-lbs in 1997-1999.
EJ25 SOHC Phase II: Found in Legacies from 2000+, Imprezas from 1999+, and Foresters from 1999+. Rated at 165hp and 166 ft-lbs. There was a slight compression ratio change from 1999-2000 where it went from 9.7:1 to 10.0:1.
The new 05 2.5's are actually a bit different now. Completely new intake manifolds, electronic throttles, who knows how different of wiring... Still simular HP numbers, but the electronic throttle improves mpg, while the intake manifold is a JDM design that has been used on some rather nice N/A motors overseas and may be capable of extra HP while tuning. But I dont have any swap info on these

Last edited by Kostamojen; 08-19-2004 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 07-09-2004, 12:29 AM   #2
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The actual Swap...

There are a couple different routes you can take when swaping a 2.5 into an older Impreza. 1) Rewire the whole car using the 2.5 wiring/ECU/etc. from the doner car, 2) splice the ECU and engine harness from the 2.5 into the current wiring layout, or 3) run the motor with the existing ECU/wiring harness.

If you are doing this on a budget, the easiest thing to do is run the motor off of the existing ECU and Harness. I have a few examples of how to do so in detail.

The first scenario, a 93-96 swaping in a MY98 motor (This is Supermoose's swap)

Quote:
I have a 93 FWD L. 5 speed, ej18 car, i have a 98 DOHC RS motor in my car now.
its a FWD with rear disc conversion + gastank, Crossmember, Swaybar

It is using
-1.8L engine wiring harness
-1.8L ecu and all wiring
-1.8L radiator / fans
-1.8L FWD tranny, flywheel, clutch (cable)
-1.8L crossmember
-1.8L throttle body with intergrated TPS and IAC
-1.8L MAF sensor, airbox, intake pipe
-1.8L ignitor
-1.8L charcol canister
-1.8L fuel pump
-1.8L fuel lines / filter
-1.8L brake booster line
-1.8L throttle body coolant line
-1.8L PCV setup


-2.5L DOHC motor
-2.5L intake manifold
-2.5L injectors
-2.5L sensors (all)
-2.5L coil packs
-2.5L plug wires

disabled (bc my car dosnt care anyway)
- no EGR - block off plate fab'd with alcoa 6061 t6 and dremmel tool
- blocked off IAC on manifold - use ej18 throttle body unit
- 1 million vacume lines blocked off - block off everything that u dont need for the bare essentials

--u can use from either ej18 or 98 DOHC ej25:
--alternator,
--powersteering,
--AC,
--throttle body gasket,
--exhaust manifold (they are the same dimensions - i measured them),
--catalytic convertor - EJ25 is bigger though + same for exhaust
--water pump - same part number
-- radiator cap - ditto although GDA is same also and supposedly 1.1 bar pressure (higher --> better)

**issues - ej18 powersteering lines are bent wrong for the ej25 motor, so it makes taking intake manifold off a hassle. also, u need to use the ej25 bracket to mount it on the engine with.

************************************************** **

it is a simple swap.
everything bolts in, mates up etc.

what i had problems with:

1. my ignitor was toast to begin with. i ran on front 2 cylinders for a while before i realized that #2 and #4 wernt getting spark. BTW your engine will run with the front 2 cylinders only, its slow but not that bad for 2 cylinders.
2. i had a million vacume leaks. use the charchol canister and its ej18 setup
3. ej25 powersteering pump has no plug on it. i have no idea what the ej18 plug on it does. so far, no issues
4. make sure your intake manifold gasket is good. mine was destroyed (by my stupidity and not recognized untill now). toast by #3, leads to intake manifold backfire in #3 and horrible loping idle.
5. dont mix up plug banks from coil. ie making #2,#4 fire at #1,#3 times. BAD.
6. i thought my headgasket was toast (it was the 3 layer). it probbly wasnt, but 13 hours yesterday made me have the new shiny metal 4 layer gasket . shiny. metal. 4 layer headgasket to take more boooooost...... its not that hard to swap. if u have some monkey knowedge, do it yourself. u need 2 friends to hold the cams in place for the left bank (#2/#4) they need to be centred @ lift and will spin out - scary noise if not attended to. note - GDA manual works perfectly - even the teeth #s are the same for spacing for the DOHC motor. same lifter setup etc for 87-98 dohc ej25. 96 is hydro lifter.
7. issues with bogging - not really. i dont have any bogs in my powerband. im guessing its not ideal - 1.8L map, but its not very far off.
8. redline issue = YES . it cuts at 6,000 rpm
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Old 07-09-2004, 12:30 AM   #3
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The second version involves the MY99 motor (from bobjr94)

Quote:
I put a phase 2 2.5(my99) in my 96 impreza 1.8 two days ago..about 150 miles and no trouble and no engine light and only a little over 1/4 tank of gas..

Even though it had a 8 bolt bellhousing , it bolt right up to the older 4 bolt housing..The exhaust(though small on a 1.8) bolts up...
youll need to take the throttle body off the 1.8, cut out a piece of steel to match the gasket on the 2.5(bolt holes and center hole only), put the gasket from the 1.8 on the throttle body, the steel shim then the gasket from the 2.5 on the back and bolt it on..

on a phase 2 motor, the injector plugs are different, you cut each off and splice to your old 1.8 harness...youll also need the coil pack from the 1.8...it will also need and adapter to match up the bolt holes, or just put 1 bolt in and it will sit kinda of sideways, but works for the time being...

the clutch was stiffer now, but I have the hydraulic setup from the doner car anyway..the clutch cable may not last long with the extra force on it..

youll also have to change boots on the plug wires...

the car of course has much more power, even with the smaller exhaust..since the 1.8 had no knock sensor the ignition timing may be less aggressive than a stock 2.5, so power will be slightly less than the 167...
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Old 07-09-2004, 12:31 AM   #4
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This next one involves a 00-01 swap into a 93-96 1.8 using the 1.8 ECU, info provided by Hawk296

Quote:
As you know the Ej25 will bolt right up. You can use the 1.8 flywheel and clutch or ide reccommend the 2.5 flywheel and clutch. You can also retain the cable setup with no problem at all.

A few things to look out for.

1. Crank trigger ring. In 2001 Automatic cars and manual trans cars had different ECUs. THey also had different Crank sensor trigger rings (on backside of timing belt sprocket). THe auto cars had a 6 tooth identicle to your 1.8. The manual trans cars had much more teeth. Make sure you have the 6 tooth ring on there so that the 1.8 ECU can run it. If you do not then just swap over the one from the 1.8

2. Fuel Injectors- The new style fuel injectors have a different electrical connector. It is pretty much opposite from the 1.8 because the new style conectors are inverted when compared to teh EJ18s. Pretty much match up the yellow wire (B+ to injectors)on all 4 injectors with its correct pin on the connector.

3. Throttle Body blockoff- You need to use the 1.8 throttle body so that thew ECU can control the IAC and read the TPS. the 01' 2.5 has a seperate IAC port above the TB bore which the 1.8 does not. Simply block it off with a plate. Get a 2.5 TB gasket and a 1.8 one. Trace the perimeter of the 2.5 gasket on a thin piece of sheet metal. trace teh bolt holes and the main bore on the sheet metal and cut out. do NOT trace the IAC port from the 2.5 gasket. then install the 2.5 TB gasket between the manifold and block off plate, then the 1.8 gasket between the blockoff plate and Throttle body.

4. Plug wires- As far as I know subaru does not make a plug wire that will have the 1.8 coil end with the SOHC 2.5 plug end (its a long lead) You need to use the 1.8s 3 wire coil so the ECU can run it. THe 2.5 has a 4 wire coil with the ignitor built in and the 1.8ECU cannot run it. I had some plug wires made for me by kingsborne wire werks in CA. Cost me 50 bucks to have them made and overnighted. I think it is only like 16 bucks for the wire set, the rest was shipping for me. THey still have my order in file as part number "16-SVI" these are just barely long enough to reach the coil in the stock location. You can specify wire color, guage, and length from them of you want something different. They can also print text on the wires if you want!

5. temp sensor. The 1.8 uses 2 temp sensor, a 2 pin large one for the ECU and a single pin tiny one for the temp guage. The new EJ25 uses a single 3 pin triangular shaped sensor. Use the new sensor. Get a new style connector and wire the 2 wires from the big sensor to the top 2 pins on the new connecter. then attach the single wire for the guage to the bottom remaining pin.

Everything else should either plug in or be swappable from the 1.8. For EGR disabling, I simply kept the solinoid attached to the harness and capped off the ports with those little rubber vacuum line blockoff things. I have it mounted out of the way. This way it still sits there clicking away so you do not get a CEL but it really isnt doing anything. Same thing goes for the other solinoid thingy on the passenger side. The blue solinoid is for the Evap purge canister and that needs to be retained. You have to alter it slightly to work because locations of lines are alittle differnt. Just make the routing copy that of the 1.8

As far as vacuum lines go, all the taps might be in slightly different locataions. It doesnt matter as long as everything that needs a vacuum signal gets one and all remaining ports are blocked off. There will also be a metal tube that looks like its part of the fuel lines but ultimatly goes into the cyl head/intake manifold area right by the fuel injectors. This is the air assist injection thingy. Simply plug off the ports on the back of the engine because this is not going to be used.

In addition to the timing belt sprockets/crank trigger ring between the auto and manual there is one more difference.

On the manual cars there was a timing belt guide that fits above the crank sprocket for the timing belt. It fits VERY close to the belt and is held in with two bolts. This is there to prevent the timing belt from jumping teeth on the sprocket during hard launches, shifts, parking on hills in gear, etc. The automatic cars did not have this. Its a cheap part so you might want to verify you have it and if not order one and its 2 bolts.

Last edited by Kostamojen; 07-09-2004 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 07-09-2004, 12:31 AM   #5
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The big option, rewiring the car properly, is drawn out by a good friend of mine EddyRS, he basically swaped everything out of an old L but the chasis IE the complete opposite side of the spectrum:

Quote:
Just to add input....

I have a 93 L wagon, which I am putting in my 00 RS 2.5L into. Since I had this left over from my Conversion I figured it was good start (& to get Kostamojen off my back with him wanting to put it in his L, as it was just wasting away in my garage )

The route I'm going is a little more extreme. The L I bought is an AWD 1.8L Automatic. Interior was shot, and the engine has over 220K miles on it and is leaking out of every place imaginable and then some (I've counted at least 11 leaks). Basically the car was ready to be scrapped.

This is the list of whats being done to it.

1. Replacing engine with my RS 2.5 SOHC (only 14K miles on it)
2. Converting Tranny to Manual, using a 2000 RS 5-Speed
3. Replacing rear diff with 00RS LSD
4. Drive shaft is from a 00 OBS
5. Suspension is from my 00RS (only 1500miles on when upgraded)
6. Complete Brakes/Hubs/Axles from a 98 RS
7. 00 RS Wheels
8. Complete 00 OBS Interior change (Dash/Door Panels/Seats/Plastic/Carpet/Headliner) All Grey and black
9. 97OBS Hood/Lights/Grill
10. 00 OBS Front Bumper
11. 02 WRX Rear Muffler
12. Rear Hatch with Spoilers from a 00 OBS
13. 00 RS Side Skirts
14. 00 RS Leather Steering wheel and White Instrument Guage cluster.

The only thing holding me up is that I am still waiting on the wiring harness from the yard. The wiring should come from a 00 or 01 Manual Forester, it is almost impossible to find a wrecked RS these days. The Forester use the same dash and engine as that of the RS, so it should be a direct swap. If not I have a cut 01 Harness that I can reasemble to use. (Have the connectors from my previous Conversion). But I am not looking forward to another splice job.

As you can see, when I get done the car will be practically brand new. After what I had to go thru with my RS/WRX Conversion, I want to do only a Direct remove and replace swap. But because it is how I am I tend to go a little overboard with things.

When I am done, I should have spend no more the $6000 for everything except the engine (Yes that includes the price of the L Wagon too..... )
Hopefully this thread is a better help for those looking for options. I will edit it later as per neccesity.

Last edited by Kostamojen; 07-09-2004 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 07-09-2004, 12:46 AM   #6
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Before considering a swap, remember that you have to do a complete conversion of the entire drivetrain, including ECU and transmission (although nobody will ever notice that part) in order to be emissions legal. That's in all 50 states, or at least the ones that have actual inspections. It ain't cheating if you don't get caught.

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Old 07-14-2004, 08:52 AM   #7
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I want to add that you do not need to have custom plug wires made to do the ej18-ej25 swap. I did it yesterday(drive in, drive out) in about 8 hours with no parts.
The ej18 (as most of you know) uses an ignitor and coil and the ej 25 uses a unit that combines the two. All you do is unplug the ignitor, and jump the wires coming into the ignitor over to the pins coming out of the ignitor. Ignore the ground wire and remove the ignotor-you will not need it. 2 in, 2 out. Now splice the 2.5 coil connector into the 1.8 harness. Splice in power and the two signal wires and add an eyelet for the ground wire and use the ground point right next to the coil. The 2 signal wires that originally came from the ignitor, now come from the ecu because of the first splice on the ignotor connector. Done.
The whole swap involved only 5 splices. I just trimmed off the ears on the injector connectors and they fit perfectly and clipped in. I used the 1.8 coolant sensors.
If anyone is interested in specifics, ask away.
It was a 95 ej18 to a 01 ej25.

If this info was stated above and I missed it, I apologize.
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickInLittleElm
I want to add that you do not need to have custom plug wires made to do the ej18-ej25 swap. I did it yesterday(drive in, drive out) in about 8 hours with no parts.
The ej18 (as most of you know) uses an ignitor and coil and the ej 25 uses a unit that combines the two. All you do is unplug the ignitor, and jump the wires coming into the ignitor over to the pins coming out of the ignitor. Ignore the ground wire and remove the ignotor-you will not need it. 2 in, 2 out. Now splice the 2.5 coil connector into the 1.8 harness. Splice in power and the two signal wires and add an eyelet for the ground wire and use the ground point right next to the coil. The 2 signal wires that originally came from the ignitor, now come from the ecu because of the first splice on the ignotor connector. Done.
The whole swap involved only 5 splices. I just trimmed off the ears on the injector connectors and they fit perfectly and clipped in. I used the 1.8 coolant sensors.
If anyone is interested in specifics, ask away.
It was a 95 ej18 to a 01 ej25.

If this info was stated above and I missed it, I apologize.
No, dont apologize, that was excellent. I was wondering if you could use the stock wiring like you did via splicing without ordering new custom fab wires like was suggested. Good stuff.
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Old 07-25-2004, 12:01 AM   #9
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does anyone have any experience with putting a dohc phase 1 ej25 into a 1989 Subaru Legacy dl FWD

just wondering if there was any issues to look out for
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Old 07-25-2004, 04:21 PM   #10
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That's a question that the folks at http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/ can answer better.
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Old 08-03-2004, 01:51 AM   #11
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Good info!

Thanks!
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Old 08-26-2004, 12:06 AM   #12
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how's the conversion doin???
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Old 08-29-2004, 02:05 AM   #13
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what kind of problems should i expect if i tried my own conversion??? i'be heard rumors that they could run a little hot.....would you suggest carrying fire extinguisher????
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Old 08-29-2004, 02:52 PM   #14
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Yes I would suggest that, until the car is running properly.
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Old 09-02-2004, 05:44 PM   #15
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how easy would it be to take the intake maniflod off a 1.8 and put it on a 2.5? also replacing the injectors of course
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Old 09-02-2004, 05:44 PM
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