contesting a lidar speeding ticket?
08-02-2007, 12:11 PM
#17
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What are you basing your defense on?
What agency issued the citation?
Subpoena the officer's training record, the unit's calibration, etc before your court date.
I beat a bull**** CHP radar ticket because the officer testified that he inspected/tested/calibrated the radar unit that morning.
Yet when I asked to see proof of this, he could not provide it.
However, I lost another radar ticket I thought for sure I was gonna win.
SOP is to have the unit calibrated at least every two years.
The unit the officer used to issue my ticket was sent out two weeks after my citation & was found to be out of calibration.
I brought this up, and suggested to the judge that every citation issued during this un calibrated state be dismissed.
The officer then mentioned that he was certified at visual speed estimation...which will **** you everytime.
I failed at asking the officer for proof of this certification.
Hence, I lost.
Oh, get a Valentine.
What agency issued the citation?
Subpoena the officer's training record, the unit's calibration, etc before your court date.
I beat a bull**** CHP radar ticket because the officer testified that he inspected/tested/calibrated the radar unit that morning.
Yet when I asked to see proof of this, he could not provide it.
However, I lost another radar ticket I thought for sure I was gonna win.
SOP is to have the unit calibrated at least every two years.
The unit the officer used to issue my ticket was sent out two weeks after my citation & was found to be out of calibration.
I brought this up, and suggested to the judge that every citation issued during this un calibrated state be dismissed.
The officer then mentioned that he was certified at visual speed estimation...which will **** you everytime.
I failed at asking the officer for proof of this certification.
Hence, I lost.
Oh, get a Valentine.
One of my friend said on the visual thing, to drop your pen.. and go... how fast did the pen fall?? he will be like uhhhh... then go, so now you can't judge a pen falling accurately but somehow you are certified to judge a car accurately... not sure how that would blow over
08-02-2007, 01:05 PM
#18
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One of my friend said on the visual thing, to drop your pen.. and go... how fast did the pen fall?? he will be like uhhhh... then go, so now you can't judge a pen falling accurately but somehow you are certified to judge a car accurately... not sure how that would blow over
.
08-02-2007, 01:06 PM
#19
yeah... my V1 picks up LIDAR too, but usually it's too late. I think so far I've only encountered once where the CHP tagged the guy infront of me and my V1 picked it up before he tagged me.
fine, then throw the pen at the cop instead... 
08-02-2007, 01:34 PM
#22
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I was going to say CVC 21055a emergency vehicles need to use red lamp and siren when pursuing a suspect in excess of the posted speed limits.. since the officer did not activate his lights and siren until he was directly behind me, he was able to approach without exceeding the posted speed limit, and therefore there could be a calibration error with his lidar device
i was thinking of bring up the technical defenses too, trying to ask about calibration and training
i was thinking of mentioning CVC 21753 "Yielding for Passing" to say that i was trying to avoid an unsafe situation, but given that the allegation is 20mph over the limit.. i don't think that would be very effective
08-02-2007, 03:53 PM
#24
i was talking about from the guy's hand to the cop's face. not from hand to ground...
either way, LIDAR is hard to beat. Few things I can think of... If you were far enough from the LIDAR, with minor movement at the LIDAR could cause a big difference at the target. So it would help if he tagged you from far away with other vehicles next to you. Simple geometry can show few degress of movement at the LIDAR could cause a big difference at the target end. Also state if the cop had the LIDAR mounted or hand held. If not mounted, chance of error would be higher. Then again, it would only work if there were other cars near by. Good luck...
either way, LIDAR is hard to beat. Few things I can think of... If you were far enough from the LIDAR, with minor movement at the LIDAR could cause a big difference at the target. So it would help if he tagged you from far away with other vehicles next to you. Simple geometry can show few degress of movement at the LIDAR could cause a big difference at the target end. Also state if the cop had the LIDAR mounted or hand held. If not mounted, chance of error would be higher. Then again, it would only work if there were other cars near by. Good luck...
08-02-2007, 04:57 PM
#25
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You ever run and kick a bee's nest? I'd just pay to play. I have worked both sides of the fence, Let me tell you. Your best chance is to be nice when stopped. Once the ticket is writen your done.
Did you hit your brakes when he was rolling up behind?
Did you fall for the "do you know how fast you were going" question?
Remeber these guys are trained and certifed oberservers. Your going to be hard pressed to get off on something. They deal with this stuff every day. They kinda pass notes at the station on everything so everyone knows the ways to get out of something. This falls in your favor, Were you a ******** when he stopped you? If not maybe he left out a detail to the trained eye.
The pen trick really doenst work and your going to pay the judge if you waste his time.....
Roll the dice... Looks like you lost this time.
Get a trunk monkey might work
Or get a friend in the air force to build you some neat black boxs... Rolling stealth last 4 years and counting.
Did you hit your brakes when he was rolling up behind?
Did you fall for the "do you know how fast you were going" question?
Remeber these guys are trained and certifed oberservers. Your going to be hard pressed to get off on something. They deal with this stuff every day. They kinda pass notes at the station on everything so everyone knows the ways to get out of something. This falls in your favor, Were you a ******** when he stopped you? If not maybe he left out a detail to the trained eye.
The pen trick really doenst work and your going to pay the judge if you waste his time.....
Roll the dice... Looks like you lost this time.
Get a trunk monkey might work
Or get a friend in the air force to build you some neat black boxs... Rolling stealth last 4 years and counting.
08-02-2007, 05:01 PM
#26
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i was talking about from the guy's hand to the cop's face. not from hand to ground...
either way, LIDAR is hard to beat. Few things I can think of... If you were far enough from the LIDAR, with minor movement at the LIDAR could cause a big difference at the target. So it would help if he tagged you from far away with other vehicles next to you. Simple geometry can show few degress of movement at the LIDAR could cause a big difference at the target end. Also state if the cop had the LIDAR mounted or hand held. If not mounted, chance of error would be higher. Then again, it would only work if there were other cars near by. Good luck...
either way, LIDAR is hard to beat. Few things I can think of... If you were far enough from the LIDAR, with minor movement at the LIDAR could cause a big difference at the target. So it would help if he tagged you from far away with other vehicles next to you. Simple geometry can show few degress of movement at the LIDAR could cause a big difference at the target end. Also state if the cop had the LIDAR mounted or hand held. If not mounted, chance of error would be higher. Then again, it would only work if there were other cars near by. Good luck...
You might be able to get out of it based on what angles the chp was using when he lite you up with lidar. The angle he shot you at does effect speed. Thats why you see them parked sideways when they are using it.
Good defence is swarve into a wall. When they ask what happen tell them you saw a crazy policeman pointing what looked like a gun at you. You feared for your life. Then sue the state.
08-02-2007, 05:08 PM
#28
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Also. Don't forget he was backing up his ticket with pacing. So I'm sure he's got you on that as well.
08-02-2007, 06:10 PM
#29
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Agreed.
Plus most CHP will base the ticket on visual speed estimation and used radar to support his visual.
I've used this defence sucessfully against visual estimation:
Cop wil state that he/she is certified to visually estimate speed.
Ask to see proof.
No proof, ask the judge to not allow the testimony.
If proof is presented, ask the officer to describe the process used to certify visual estimation.
Both times, the officer hemmed & hawwed, so asked 'em to point out any errors when I describe the process to the judge.
If...and this is the big if...the cop visually estimated your speed contrary to the manner he was certified...for example, he testifies that he was certified looking out of the front windshield, & he nailed you in the rearview mirror...ask the judge to dismiss the testimony as the officer isn't certified to estimate using a mirror.
Plus most CHP will base the ticket on visual speed estimation and used radar to support his visual.
I've used this defence sucessfully against visual estimation:
Cop wil state that he/she is certified to visually estimate speed.
Ask to see proof.
No proof, ask the judge to not allow the testimony.
If proof is presented, ask the officer to describe the process used to certify visual estimation.
Both times, the officer hemmed & hawwed, so asked 'em to point out any errors when I describe the process to the judge.
If...and this is the big if...the cop visually estimated your speed contrary to the manner he was certified...for example, he testifies that he was certified looking out of the front windshield, & he nailed you in the rearview mirror...ask the judge to dismiss the testimony as the officer isn't certified to estimate using a mirror.
08-03-2007, 12:25 PM
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You ever run and kick a bee's nest? I'd just pay to play. I have worked both sides of the fence, Let me tell you. Your best chance is to be nice when stopped. Once the ticket is writen your done.
Did you hit your brakes when he was rolling up behind?
Did you fall for the "do you know how fast you were going" question?
Remeber these guys are trained and certifed oberservers. Your going to be hard pressed to get off on something. They deal with this stuff every day. They kinda pass notes at the station on everything so everyone knows the ways to get out of something. This falls in your favor, Were you a ******** when he stopped you? If not maybe he left out a detail to the trained eye.
The pen trick really doenst work and your going to pay the judge if you waste his time.....
Roll the dice... Looks like you lost this time.
Get a trunk monkey might work
Or get a friend in the air force to build you some neat black boxs... Rolling stealth last 4 years and counting.
Did you hit your brakes when he was rolling up behind?
Did you fall for the "do you know how fast you were going" question?
Remeber these guys are trained and certifed oberservers. Your going to be hard pressed to get off on something. They deal with this stuff every day. They kinda pass notes at the station on everything so everyone knows the ways to get out of something. This falls in your favor, Were you a ******** when he stopped you? If not maybe he left out a detail to the trained eye.
The pen trick really doenst work and your going to pay the judge if you waste his time.....
Roll the dice... Looks like you lost this time.
Get a trunk monkey might work
Or get a friend in the air force to build you some neat black boxs... Rolling stealth last 4 years and counting.
i'm gonna to with trial by written declaration and see where that goes. not going to bother taking it to court in person. don't think its worth it for this ticket