Auto-RX oil treatment. Don't Do It
07-25-2011, 10:20 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: N/A
Posts: 243
Car Info: 03 WRX
Auto-RX oil treatment. Don't Do It
edit: I've posted this exact thread to the official Auto-RX forums only to have the thread deleted and the username banned. If that is not an example of their terrible customer service, I don't know what is.
I am writing to anyone that might be on the fence about purchasing a treatment or two of Auto-RX. In few words, Don't Do it. Allow me to go into the background of my issue.
I have a 2003 wrx that was burning around .75 quarts of oil every thousand miles or so. Thinking that it might be a stuck ring land I came across Auto-RX that claimed it could free up stuck ring lands, increase cylinder pressures, and reduce oil blow by. "GREAT!" I thought to myself, this is exactly what I needed. So after speaking with Rich Eklund regarding what oil to use in my treatment cycle I settled on Valvoline Conventional 5w30 for both the treatment oil, and the rinse oil.
Roughly 1000-1500 miles into the treatment an oil leak developed on the drivers side of my motor, at first I thought it might have been the valve cover gasket. So I looked on the Auto-RX website and saw that there was a possibility that Auto-RX could make your seals more pliable. "Seems plausible" I thought to myself, the FAQ said that it could take up to 3000 miles for the seals to re-seal and after that everything should be golden. So I waited, drained out the Auto-RX treatment oil and refilled with clean Valvoline 5w30 and a fresh Purelator One filter. 1,000 miles passed, no change in the leak. 2,000 miles passed, still no change in fact it was getting worse. 3,000 miles passed, and still the oil leak was getting a little worse. After 3,500 miles I drained the oil and refilled with Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 and a fresh Purelator One filter.
During this time I began speaking to local shops regarding what the cause could be, as Auto-RX states that it cannot under any circumstances cause harm to seals. The overwhelming conscensus was that a cam seal had torn. So I contacted Auto-RX again to get their opinion on what could be going on. And once again Rich Ukland answered my email. Wherein he said that it could be a stuck PCV valve, maybe some dirt had dislodged and gotteen stuck in the seal causing the leak, or that it could also be a torn seal. He offered that he could look into getting a complimentary bottle of Auto-RX sent to me if a new PCV wouldn't solve the problem.
After a few days I decided that I would I would take Rich up on his offer of a complimentary bottle of Auto-RX. I sent an email in on July 22nd, wherein I asked if he could look into getting another bottle of Auto-RX sent to me. Here is where the otherwise good customer service experience went completely down hill. Rich was out on vacation and now Frank Miller (the owner of the company) was answering the emails. Here is his response to the email I wrote:
"Hello Rich is on vacation. Why would we send you a free bottle of Auto-Rx ?"
Brief to say the least. But I oblidged to tell him why a free bottle might be sent to me with this reply:
"Well first and foremost Rich said that he'd look into it. To give you the back story: after my first treatment of Auto-RX I developed an oil leak from a cam seal, I had hoped that it would have gone away but it still persists 5000 miles after the treatment oil had been drained."
Now keep in mind that Auto-RX uses a gmail account for their customer service email. So Frank would have full access to the string of emails that had been sent. Here is the response I received from Frank, along with the rest of the email conversation. His emails are Bolded, mine are italicized:
"WHAT IS THE OIL YOUR USING ? "
"I ran Valvoline conventional through it for the treatment oil and the oil change after. It currently has Pennzoil Ultra in it."
"This is from our website " Drain the Ultra go back to Valvoline Conventinal the leak will stop." He copy/pasted a portion of the website that went over why you should not use Pennzoil Ultra or other PAO based oils in conjunction with an Auto-RX treatment. Keep in mind that at this point my motor had not had Auto-RX in it for 5000 miles.
"I had run Valvoline convention through it for after the treatment 3000 miles and the leak showed no signs of stopping. I do plan on changing back to a conventional oil as the price of the pennzoil ultra is prohibitive given that the car is leaking more than 1 quart every 1000 miles currently. To clarify, Pennzoil Ultra and Auto-RX have *NOT* been in the motor at the same time, only Valvoline Conventional was used with Auto-RX and in the oil change following the Auto-RX treatment."
"**** is is the complex additive package in the full synthetic oil that caused the leak to come back. If your saying it leaked after you completed rinse mode with Valvoline Conventinal oil ? than you have a torn or ripped seal. Which will have to be replaced." He clearly had not understood that the oil leak began during the original Auto-RX treatment and had not stopped since.
"That is exactly what I am saying, the leak developed at the end of the treatment cycle and persisted through the rinse and into this current oil change. I have an appointment on monday to have the seal replaced which will be roughly $400. Needless to say I am very much less than thrilled to be having to spend $400 to replace a seal with less than 10k miles on it after using your product. I would appreciate some assistance in repairing this damage that your product caused."
"Auto-Rx can't cause a sel leak and it can't repair a torn seal Based on your e-mails think you should step to the plate and recognise your own inability to except a mechanical problem. If you added more Auto-Rx after the application was complete you need to tell me perhaps i can save you a repair bill also if you used a full synthetic right after the Auto-rx Application you need to tell me by right after i mean with in 500 miles after Your Auto-rx application was finished. " I was willing to recount all of the steps I had taken with the original Auto-RX treatment. But it was at this point when Frank began getting hostile with me simply because I requested some sort of assistance with the oil leak that started during the Auto-RX treatment. This response caused me to reel, was this person really a representative of the company? Why would you be treating a customer like this, especially when they're having a rather serious issue?
"I really do not appreciate your condescending attitude and remarks regarding this matter.
I have told you, multiple times, that the oil I used with the Auto-RX treatment (when the leak started) was Valvoline Conventional, as is one of your recommended oils. The oil change immediately after that treatment cycle was ALSO Valvoline Conventional, as is the recommendation. The leak began roughly 1000 miles into the treatment cycle, and has not stopped in the 5000 miles since.
This is not my inability to "except" a mechanical problem, this is your product causing a seal to degrade in such a manner as to cause this oil leak. I have not added any further Auto-RX to any of the following oil changes as I had read the seal leak application documentation that you replied with. If you believe that another treatment of Auto-RX will remedy the situation, by all means send me another bottle and I will put it in with my next oil change. However, given the amount of oil that is leaking from the seal, I do not believe this is simply a pliable seal. I have attached several photographs that show how oily the undercarriage of the car is now due to this oil leak and the size of the oil stain on my driveway from this oil leak. Previous to this my vehicle had never dripped a single drop of oil in it's lifetime, the undercarriage was only every covered with road dust and dirt. It is now covered in a film of oil." I sent him these four photos which show how much oil is leaking from the seal: https://i.imgur.com/m2UAo.jpg https://i.imgur.com/H0kfC.jpg https://i.imgur.com/bU9Hw.jpg https://i.imgur.com/PbOJC.jpg
"If i am to accept you did the application absoulutely correct than your leak it is because it is ripped or torn.We don't fix this problem. Another bottle of Auto-Rx will not fix a ripped or torn seal. In 10 years we have never "degraded a seal" our chemistry does not swell seals. This string has riun it's course."
This is far and away the absolute worst customer service experience I have ever had. This is how they stand by their product. I will never purchase another product from Auto-RX or Frank Miller ever again. I am having the seals replaced at my expense and will be telling everyone I can to avoid Auto-RX like the plague. Buy some other competing product, do not give this man your hard earned money. You'll just get thrown to the side like I did.
I am writing to anyone that might be on the fence about purchasing a treatment or two of Auto-RX. In few words, Don't Do it. Allow me to go into the background of my issue.
I have a 2003 wrx that was burning around .75 quarts of oil every thousand miles or so. Thinking that it might be a stuck ring land I came across Auto-RX that claimed it could free up stuck ring lands, increase cylinder pressures, and reduce oil blow by. "GREAT!" I thought to myself, this is exactly what I needed. So after speaking with Rich Eklund regarding what oil to use in my treatment cycle I settled on Valvoline Conventional 5w30 for both the treatment oil, and the rinse oil.
Roughly 1000-1500 miles into the treatment an oil leak developed on the drivers side of my motor, at first I thought it might have been the valve cover gasket. So I looked on the Auto-RX website and saw that there was a possibility that Auto-RX could make your seals more pliable. "Seems plausible" I thought to myself, the FAQ said that it could take up to 3000 miles for the seals to re-seal and after that everything should be golden. So I waited, drained out the Auto-RX treatment oil and refilled with clean Valvoline 5w30 and a fresh Purelator One filter. 1,000 miles passed, no change in the leak. 2,000 miles passed, still no change in fact it was getting worse. 3,000 miles passed, and still the oil leak was getting a little worse. After 3,500 miles I drained the oil and refilled with Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 and a fresh Purelator One filter.
During this time I began speaking to local shops regarding what the cause could be, as Auto-RX states that it cannot under any circumstances cause harm to seals. The overwhelming conscensus was that a cam seal had torn. So I contacted Auto-RX again to get their opinion on what could be going on. And once again Rich Ukland answered my email. Wherein he said that it could be a stuck PCV valve, maybe some dirt had dislodged and gotteen stuck in the seal causing the leak, or that it could also be a torn seal. He offered that he could look into getting a complimentary bottle of Auto-RX sent to me if a new PCV wouldn't solve the problem.
After a few days I decided that I would I would take Rich up on his offer of a complimentary bottle of Auto-RX. I sent an email in on July 22nd, wherein I asked if he could look into getting another bottle of Auto-RX sent to me. Here is where the otherwise good customer service experience went completely down hill. Rich was out on vacation and now Frank Miller (the owner of the company) was answering the emails. Here is his response to the email I wrote:
"Hello Rich is on vacation. Why would we send you a free bottle of Auto-Rx ?"
Brief to say the least. But I oblidged to tell him why a free bottle might be sent to me with this reply:
"Well first and foremost Rich said that he'd look into it. To give you the back story: after my first treatment of Auto-RX I developed an oil leak from a cam seal, I had hoped that it would have gone away but it still persists 5000 miles after the treatment oil had been drained."
Now keep in mind that Auto-RX uses a gmail account for their customer service email. So Frank would have full access to the string of emails that had been sent. Here is the response I received from Frank, along with the rest of the email conversation. His emails are Bolded, mine are italicized:
"WHAT IS THE OIL YOUR USING ? "
"I ran Valvoline conventional through it for the treatment oil and the oil change after. It currently has Pennzoil Ultra in it."
"This is from our website " Drain the Ultra go back to Valvoline Conventinal the leak will stop." He copy/pasted a portion of the website that went over why you should not use Pennzoil Ultra or other PAO based oils in conjunction with an Auto-RX treatment. Keep in mind that at this point my motor had not had Auto-RX in it for 5000 miles.
"I had run Valvoline convention through it for after the treatment 3000 miles and the leak showed no signs of stopping. I do plan on changing back to a conventional oil as the price of the pennzoil ultra is prohibitive given that the car is leaking more than 1 quart every 1000 miles currently. To clarify, Pennzoil Ultra and Auto-RX have *NOT* been in the motor at the same time, only Valvoline Conventional was used with Auto-RX and in the oil change following the Auto-RX treatment."
"**** is is the complex additive package in the full synthetic oil that caused the leak to come back. If your saying it leaked after you completed rinse mode with Valvoline Conventinal oil ? than you have a torn or ripped seal. Which will have to be replaced." He clearly had not understood that the oil leak began during the original Auto-RX treatment and had not stopped since.
"That is exactly what I am saying, the leak developed at the end of the treatment cycle and persisted through the rinse and into this current oil change. I have an appointment on monday to have the seal replaced which will be roughly $400. Needless to say I am very much less than thrilled to be having to spend $400 to replace a seal with less than 10k miles on it after using your product. I would appreciate some assistance in repairing this damage that your product caused."
"Auto-Rx can't cause a sel leak and it can't repair a torn seal Based on your e-mails think you should step to the plate and recognise your own inability to except a mechanical problem. If you added more Auto-Rx after the application was complete you need to tell me perhaps i can save you a repair bill also if you used a full synthetic right after the Auto-rx Application you need to tell me by right after i mean with in 500 miles after Your Auto-rx application was finished. " I was willing to recount all of the steps I had taken with the original Auto-RX treatment. But it was at this point when Frank began getting hostile with me simply because I requested some sort of assistance with the oil leak that started during the Auto-RX treatment. This response caused me to reel, was this person really a representative of the company? Why would you be treating a customer like this, especially when they're having a rather serious issue?
"I really do not appreciate your condescending attitude and remarks regarding this matter.
I have told you, multiple times, that the oil I used with the Auto-RX treatment (when the leak started) was Valvoline Conventional, as is one of your recommended oils. The oil change immediately after that treatment cycle was ALSO Valvoline Conventional, as is the recommendation. The leak began roughly 1000 miles into the treatment cycle, and has not stopped in the 5000 miles since.
This is not my inability to "except" a mechanical problem, this is your product causing a seal to degrade in such a manner as to cause this oil leak. I have not added any further Auto-RX to any of the following oil changes as I had read the seal leak application documentation that you replied with. If you believe that another treatment of Auto-RX will remedy the situation, by all means send me another bottle and I will put it in with my next oil change. However, given the amount of oil that is leaking from the seal, I do not believe this is simply a pliable seal. I have attached several photographs that show how oily the undercarriage of the car is now due to this oil leak and the size of the oil stain on my driveway from this oil leak. Previous to this my vehicle had never dripped a single drop of oil in it's lifetime, the undercarriage was only every covered with road dust and dirt. It is now covered in a film of oil." I sent him these four photos which show how much oil is leaking from the seal: https://i.imgur.com/m2UAo.jpg https://i.imgur.com/H0kfC.jpg https://i.imgur.com/bU9Hw.jpg https://i.imgur.com/PbOJC.jpg
"If i am to accept you did the application absoulutely correct than your leak it is because it is ripped or torn.We don't fix this problem. Another bottle of Auto-Rx will not fix a ripped or torn seal. In 10 years we have never "degraded a seal" our chemistry does not swell seals. This string has riun it's course."
This is far and away the absolute worst customer service experience I have ever had. This is how they stand by their product. I will never purchase another product from Auto-RX or Frank Miller ever again. I am having the seals replaced at my expense and will be telling everyone I can to avoid Auto-RX like the plague. Buy some other competing product, do not give this man your hard earned money. You'll just get thrown to the side like I did.
Last edited by Amandyke; 07-25-2011 at 11:19 AM.
07-25-2011, 11:19 AM
#2
Oil Additive Scam
I left the auto-rx board when I found out the product was originally designed to clean printing presses that runs on hydraulic fluid, and these printing presses are a closed system, meaning no introduction of air, just like a transmission, differential, or powersteering, so the contaniments are soft.
In an engine the deposits are harder, and many people are claiming that all this product has done is maybe clean there ring packs, it has not cleaned there valvetrain because arx does not work under splash lubrication. I also found out this product was never tested on an automobile engine, this stuff is not cheap, it goes for $26.00 a bottle.
They tried to sell the product to Auto-Zone, and they were going to give auto-rx $20.00 for every bottle that was sold and charge consumers $50.00 a bottle, many people who tried auto-rx are now using Marvel Mystery Oil that goes for $3.50 a quart and they are getting better results.
This is as big a scam as Z- Max and maybe Slick50, I want to report them to the FTC, I was an insider and I was given a lot of free product, do I call the FTC, I was thinking of mailing in a short letter, but I am afraid it will get lost in some bureaucratic mess. I do not want to see this product show up in some auto parts store.
There is a You-Tube video on this product and the pictures of the valvetrain are fake, do I post underneath in the comment section and say hey FTC check these guys out.
Any advice would be appreciated.
In an engine the deposits are harder, and many people are claiming that all this product has done is maybe clean there ring packs, it has not cleaned there valvetrain because arx does not work under splash lubrication. I also found out this product was never tested on an automobile engine, this stuff is not cheap, it goes for $26.00 a bottle.
They tried to sell the product to Auto-Zone, and they were going to give auto-rx $20.00 for every bottle that was sold and charge consumers $50.00 a bottle, many people who tried auto-rx are now using Marvel Mystery Oil that goes for $3.50 a quart and they are getting better results.
This is as big a scam as Z- Max and maybe Slick50, I want to report them to the FTC, I was an insider and I was given a lot of free product, do I call the FTC, I was thinking of mailing in a short letter, but I am afraid it will get lost in some bureaucratic mess. I do not want to see this product show up in some auto parts store.
There is a You-Tube video on this product and the pictures of the valvetrain are fake, do I post underneath in the comment section and say hey FTC check these guys out.
Any advice would be appreciated.
07-25-2011, 02:13 PM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: N/A
Posts: 243
Car Info: 03 WRX
07-25-2011, 03:14 PM
#8
Registered User
Wow.
Well from what I've read on BITOG, it seems to be for cleaning out gunk in the engine, not so much fixing seals.
But there are products out there like Z-Max that are massive scams that should never even be considered for use.
Well from what I've read on BITOG, it seems to be for cleaning out gunk in the engine, not so much fixing seals.
But there are products out there like Z-Max that are massive scams that should never even be considered for use.
07-25-2011, 03:25 PM
#9
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 4,300
Car Info: http://kiva.org/invitedby/brett4254
In my experience, pretty much all of the oil additives are BS.
Marvel Mystery Oil will work to clean crap out of your crankcase, but it will not work wonders.
Engine Restore will temporarily boost your compression if you have a lot of bleed down.
Honestly, that's about it.
Slick 50 and the other suspended-Teflon additives will do a nice job of clogging up the oil sprayers on Porsche engines
Marvel Mystery Oil will work to clean crap out of your crankcase, but it will not work wonders.
Engine Restore will temporarily boost your compression if you have a lot of bleed down.
Honestly, that's about it.
Slick 50 and the other suspended-Teflon additives will do a nice job of clogging up the oil sprayers on Porsche engines
07-25-2011, 04:25 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: N/A
Posts: 243
Car Info: 03 WRX
Here is a link to the post I made on their forum: Terrible experience with Auto-RX, customer service experience was worse - Questions & Answers
Assuming they don't delete it just look at their responses to the post. Don't let that be you.
Assuming they don't delete it just look at their responses to the post. Don't let that be you.
07-25-2011, 05:10 PM
#11
Here is a link to the post I made on their forum: Terrible experience with Auto-RX, customer service experience was worse - Questions & Answers
Assuming they don't delete it just look at their responses to the post. Don't let that be you.
Assuming they don't delete it just look at their responses to the post. Don't let that be you.
07-25-2011, 08:18 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: N/A
Posts: 243
Car Info: 03 WRX
That's a complete red hearing. They require an email address to create an account, however they do not actually confirm the email address. It was the 4th account I had made (as they had banned all the other ones, that one too actually. They even banned the IP I was using.) so I didn't want to put in another email address. I could have just as easily put in FAKE.EMAIL@YOURMOM.COM but I thought FrankMiller@autorx.com would be funnier as NO ONE would see it. That entire thread on their page is turning into a diversion. They've edited the title, the post, removed their own posts, etc etc. All to make things look more and more like they've done nothing at all. It's a travesty really.
And please, IGNORE that the Auto-RX was used. This thread is NOT about the issue it caused rather how they Handled the customer service aspect of things. To be 100% fair my oil consumption did not change from before the oil leak to after. So assuming the oil had not leaked, my motor was burning less oil. However, I'd rather burn oil than leak it. Hence why the seals have now been changed out for fresh OEM seals.
If anyone cares, after inspecting the seals it was obvious that the ones that were removed were *not* torn.
And please, IGNORE that the Auto-RX was used. This thread is NOT about the issue it caused rather how they Handled the customer service aspect of things. To be 100% fair my oil consumption did not change from before the oil leak to after. So assuming the oil had not leaked, my motor was burning less oil. However, I'd rather burn oil than leak it. Hence why the seals have now been changed out for fresh OEM seals.
If anyone cares, after inspecting the seals it was obvious that the ones that were removed were *not* torn.
