Ok, I don't wanna ask this because I don't want all the million of do a search, this has been beaten to death blah blah blah.

Realy this is the deal: I was going to go turbo so I never though I would need more effecient headers and I also tapped my stock ones for EGT. But now thinking about it. I might be worth it to get better headers. So. I was wondering if you guys can bring me up to speed on the borla header situation.

Which gen are we on? Do they still break? Where do you put an EGT probe if you use these headers....still cyl 3?
What kinda stock power gain have you guys been getting? Any CELs? Will they fit on an auto? Loss of low end torque?

Thanks guys..
-Neal

gen 4

they don't crack

they fit any 2.5L and 2.2L, not sure about 1.8

if they are worth it? i say yes, some people say no.

if you are AFI, you might research some equal lenght headers

a little more pricey, but i remember some thread about how much better they were.

i am gonna go with borla's when i have the $$$, the warranty is priceless, even the perf is a little lower.

I am curious about the CEL as well. Does anyone know if the newest ones cause a CEL?

-Wes

Originally posted by RebelINS
I am curious about the CEL as well. Does anyone know if the newest ones cause a CEL?

-Wes

They aren't guaranteed not to, but I don't think many people with them have had one.

Originally posted by BAN SUVS
They aren't guaranteed not to, but I don't think many people with them have had one.

Ive seen about 4 cars with those headers and no CELs. Hope that helps.

Pete

OK i had them and this is my take on em. First off there bnot worth the money. Unless you want just sound. they do sound awsome. Performance wise you lose power wiuthout a doubt. i did get a check engine every 2500-3000 miles. just my 2 cents.

Erik

Originally posted by 25RS 2NV
OK i had them and this is my take on em. First off there bnot worth the money. Unless you want just sound. they do sound awsome. Performance wise you lose power wiuthout a doubt. i did get a check engine every 2500-3000 miles. just my 2 cents.

Erik

Not to mention your car sounded like a rattling ass with it on.

Pete

I've heard them on others car's and I love the sound. It has a nice deep growl to it. The cat-back sounds much like a turbo back.

Originally posted by IMPREZIV
Not to mention your car sounded like a rattling ass with it on.

Pete

but that was when i had my greddy. now i got the stromung. :)

Erik

Originally posted by 25RS 2NV
but that was when i had my greddy. now i got the stromung. :)

Erik

hmmm, stromung ;)

I've got a set waiting to go on my car. I'm also going to run them in a turbo application though. I needed something with a larger diameter and didn't want to spend the money on a set of equal length units which are double what the Borlas are.

Originally posted by IMPREZIV
hmmm, stromung ;)



You know you have to rub one out everytime you hear and see my car. lol.

Erik

Originally posted by QfactorRS
they fit any 2.5L and 2.2L, not sure about 1.8

they also fit the 1.8, i have them on my car

I just installed my borlas last week. Im not sure how 25RS 2NV
can say its a loss of performance. Don't listen to him. They are quite nice. Good noticeable performance and incredible sound. I did get a CEL and hopefully wil lhave it turned off friday. Anyway, i recommend them. They are great

Originally posted by rsman2.5
I just installed my borlas last week. Im not sure how 25RS 2NV
can say its a loss of performance. Don't listen to him. They are quite nice. Good noticeable performance and incredible sound. I did get a CEL and hopefully wil lhave it turned off friday. Anyway, i recommend them. They are great

On Eriks (25rs 2nv), there was a substancial power loss with the header. Maybe there was something wrong with his header or car, but it did not make the car anything but slower.

Pete

Ok, how loud is it over stock. I hate loud loud exuasts. even if it sounds nice. I used to have a cobra...and the exaust my uncle had on there was dam loud. (kenny brown IIRC).

Also, so where do you feel the power?

what about cats? does one come with? reuse stock? I don't want a cell all the time.
also recomendations to where to order them from.

Thanks guys.

-neal

Had a set of the first gen headers on my car, dyno'd a loss down low and midrange with only minimal gains up top.

Good thing they weren't mine. Shop just wanted to dyno the headers. :p

I wonder what a dyno run would look like with a RS-T using the headers. I guess I'll have to find out here soon.

I bought mine in april and love them . they sound good and i think it feels more powerful.I havent had a cel yet.Summit racing occasionaly has them in stock and the last time I checked they were only 250 or so.hope this helps. Scott

Originally posted by DoctorNick
Ok, I don't wanna ask this because I don't want all the million of do a search, this has been beaten to death blah blah blah.

Realy this is the deal: I was going to go turbo so I never though I would need more effecient headers and I also tapped my stock ones for EGT. But now thinking about it. I might be worth it to get better headers. So. I was wondering if you guys can bring me up to speed on the borla header situation.

Which gen are we on? Do they still break? Where do you put an EGT probe if you use these headers....still cyl 3?
What kinda stock power gain have you guys been getting? Any CELs? Will they fit on an auto? Loss of low end torque?

Thanks guys..
-Neal

Hey Neil,

I am going to go with a stock turbo manifold, with an aftermarket replacement exhaust for up/dn mid and muff. THe performance isn't there for buying aftermarket headers on a turboed car for the money spent. 400 HP is enough to dirty my underwear, and the stock exhaust manifold is not going to be a brick wall from reaching that. The main reason that I would shy away from using the Borla for a turbo application is that it is not a strong piece. People have not had problems with it running it on an NA car (aside from the cracking), buy when you bolt 30-40 lbs of turbo up and down pipes on it, people have reported problems with it eventually sagging under the added stress of holding up that extra weight. I would wager that the heat also has something to do with the sagging as well.

If you must have a header for NA use before your turbo, get the TWE header. I would have bought it instead of what I have now, and would have used it for turboing as well, but I feel that using standard aftermarket parts will be the best bet for the least ammount of headachs and custom work.

cheeRS,

Greg

I have the Gen III headers, cobb CAI, stromung mid pipe and stromung single tip exhaust on my MY01 sedan and this is what I have noticed.

There is a little big of bog in the low end but after a while you don't really notice it, the mid range is good at about 3k the torque starts to kick in and this is where the fun starts. From 3k to redline, first off you'll notice the noise it gets freakin' loud in the cabin the car is very responsive and doesn't have as much throttle drop as stock. By throttle drop I mean the car lurching forward when you get off the gas. You will also notice how much more freely the rpm's climb and they will climb fast, faster than stock. According to my butt dyno the car does seem to have a steeper power curve and there is more oomph in the higher rpms. I have however noticed a flat spot in the power curve at about 48k but it is only about 300rpm wide then the car takes off like a shot.

But like any type of mod that has to do with intake and exhaust the only way to truley get all the power out of it, is to change the timing and that requires cam work. So if you want marginal upgrades in power and large upgrades in noise then go for the headers.
Oh about the noise of the car... Your car will sound awesome, it's deep, burbly, throaty and sounds so damn good. When ever the Mrs. drops me off and drives away I can't help but smile for the sound of my car. Also it replaces your first cat and if you get them installed correctly (thank you Smart Service in Shoreline :D ) you won't have any issues with the CEL.

Hope this helps.

[b]

Weren't www.generationplastics.com making a fairly cheap equal length manifold?

279.95 for the borlas at summit racing but there backordered.

ignore this

Originally posted by 25RS 2NV
OK i had them and this is my take on em. First off there bnot worth the money. Unless you want just sound. they do sound awsome. Performance wise you lose power wiuthout a doubt. i did get a check engine every 2500-3000 miles. just my 2 cents.

Erik

I disagree. In fact, I couldn't disagree more. I noticed a big difference in my car. Fourth and fifth gear pull much harder now. ALL gears do, but 4th and 5th were the most noticeable. Not to mention the car sounds great.

Some people get CEL's. I did until I wrapped the headers. The CEL went away and that rattling sound that people gripe about also went away. So the car sounded smooth, mean and performed better. Now that the Borlas are on sale for 275 bucks, I would say they are worth every penny. People who have them and wrapped them will probably tell you the same.

If you go turbo, they will hurt your spool a little bit because you lose some exhaust gas velocity. However, some cams will remedy that. Also, any turbo kit for a stock RS will bolt right up. Brullen and MRT headers would require a TON of fabricating to make most turbo kits work.

Parallel fuel rail modification is a VERY good idea. If you go turbo (and run any respectable amount of boost) the fuel rail mod is a necessity. This also means you can put the EGT in the uppipe and not in no.3 primary, so you don't run as high of a risk of cracking your headers.


edited for content because they *'d the word b***h as in gripe and complain.

one more thing. ...

on adding a turbo:

fabricating a support from the turbo to the block would be pretty easy and would prevent any cracking or sagging for sure. I'll be doing it when I get mine.

Originally posted by ImprezaRSX
I disagree. In fact, I couldn't disagree more. I noticed a big difference in my car. Fourth and fifth gear pull much harder now. ALL gears do, but 4th and 5th were the most noticeable. Not to mention the car sounds great.

Some people get CEL's. I did until I wrapped the headers. The CEL went away and that rattling sound that people ***** about also went away. So the car sounded smooth, mean and performed better. Now that the Borlas are on sale for 275 bucks, I would say they are worth every penny. People who have them and wrapped them will probably tell you the same.

I think that a comparison to other headers would show the borla's do not give as good of improvement as the rest of the field... They are much easier to work with and buy, as well as are stainless steel, which makes them apealing.
For the money, I would get the MRT's and the better performance.

I'm just having a shop fabricate a support bracket. Also looking to get it ceramic coated and still use heat wrap.

Originally posted by Kostamojen
I think that a comparison to other headers would show the borla's do not give as good of improvement as the rest of the field... They are much easier to work with and buy, as well as are stainless steel, which makes them apealing.
For the money, I would get the MRT's and the better performance.

You are correct. The Brullen's and the MRT's give bigger power gains. However, adding a turbo kit to those headers would be a huge hassle. Also, the extra piping for that kind of project would hurt your turbo lag even more than the borlas.

Originally posted by ImprezaRSX
You are correct. The Brullen's and the MRT's give bigger power gains. However, adding a turbo kit to those headers would be a huge hassle. Also, the extra piping for that kind of project would hurt your turbo lag even more than the borlas.
Im confused again... Why are we discussing Turbos in a Normally Asperated forum???

I'll have my borla gen. 4s in about a week. They are coated and wrapped, so I don't think I'll have much problem with a CEL. As far as gains, I'm not expecting a whole lot.....

I don't think any of the headers give you THAT much of a performance gain, unless of course you do a bunch of other work such as cams and other internals....

But we'll see.

G

Originally posted by Kostamojen
Im confused again... Why are we discussing Turbos in a Normally Asperated forum???

Because he CURRENTLY has a Naturally Aspirated car with questions about headers. I was mearly informing him that if he planned to ever do a turbo addition that his decision of header brands would affect the fitment and operation.

Originally posted by ImprezaRSX
Because he CURRENTLY has a Naturally Aspirated car with questions about headers. I was mearly informing him that if he planned to ever do a turbo addition that his decision of header brands would affect the fitment and operation.
Or, you could just sell whatever N/A setup to someone else instead of trying to retrofit it...

Its still an N/A thread :p

sure he could.
However, that's extra hassle and a loss of $$ for sure.
Unless the buyer is a total sucker.

heehee, alright. time to spill my beans. I am actually asking because I am puting a nice sized blower on soon and from what I am told. When modding to help a supercharged RS, you need to mod it like it is N/A. Which means: n/a flowing headers and all of that stuff. I just said turbo because I am trying to keep it on the downlow to surprise some locals who don't know what is going to hit them.

Originally posted by DoctorNick
heehee, alright. time to spill my beans. I am actually asking because I am puting a nice sized blower on soon and from what I am told. When modding to help a supercharged RS, you need to mod it like it is N/A. Which means: n/a flowing headers and all of that stuff. I just said turbo because I am trying to keep it on the downlow to surprise some locals who don't know what is going to hit them.
Ya, superchargers dont require funky exhaust pipes. Get something like the brullens, TWE's or MRT's and flow like a madman!

Originally posted by ImprezaRSX
sure he could.
However, that's extra hassle and a loss of $$ for sure.
Unless the buyer is a total sucker.
Money loss? Naw, exhaust systems retain their value extremely well, especially the headers. Something like the syms or TWE would be super-hard to sell due to the price, but MRT's or Brullens go like hotcakes.

Well the market in Hawaii is a little slow for that stuff. my buddy tried to sell his brullens for months. Of course, you guys aren't in hawaii... I am. :p

Hey man, If you're going supercharger, you want "equal length" for the best power gains and flow. That means brullen and mrt. I am not familiar with the twe.

MRT would not be a good setup for a supercharged car. They are perfect for a bolt on mod, but even with Club racer cams, they are to small. You will want at least a 2.5 inch exhaust, the MRT is optimized for a 2.25 (obviously since it is the dump diameter).

cheeRS,

Greg

Originally posted by Section 8
MRT would not be a good setup for a supercharged car. They are perfect for a bolt on mod, but even with Club racer cams, they are to small. You will want at least a 2.5 inch exhaust, the MRT is optimized for a 2.25 (obviously since it is the dump diameter).

cheeRS,

Greg
But the price is right.

I just put mine on last night and already I'm thinking about selling them. The sound just isn't for me. Some people may like it...it is much meaner than the stock manifold, but i'm having some money problems and just might be getting rid of them...No CEL's..I have the thermo-tec header wrap on mine.


Garret

I'll buy them

Yeah, what gen and how much. I would buy them also :D

I have first dibs :)

Haha, you guys can always Ro-Sham-Bo :D

its my thread :D

ok, lets ro-sham-bo.

I get to go first ;-)

actually go ahead. if the deal falls. I am up for buying.

-Neal

Originally posted by DoctorNick
I get to go first ;-)

Haha, somebody got it on the first try!

The sound WILL change as the computer learns the flow. It gets deeper and less raspy. Now if you have a leak, it's another story. I have always had a leak on mine. I have to replace the gasket everymonth because the flanges just don't meet quite right. And there is a pinhole leak on the number 3 primary. It causes my popping on decel. It's no big deal to me though.

why should he spring for equal length headers? if he is supercharging it then there is no up pipe, downpipe or any of that BS. yeah he'll have marginally better flow but with the boost it won't matter it would just be $400-500 more expensive for very minimal gains. I'd go with the Borlas and juice it up with that supercharger boost! yeah that'll be sweeeeeet! BTW whay supercharger system are you looking at? I've only seen one and they had to cut out a section of the hood and retrofited this ghey dome in front of the hood scoop to make it fit. do you have pics of the setup on anyone elses car (prob not). Good luck though!

Originally posted by Merdock777
why should he spring for equal length headers? if he is supercharging it then there is no up pipe, downpipe or any of that BS. yeah he'll have marginally better flow but with the boost it won't matter it would just be $400-500 more expensive for very minimal gains. I'd go with the Borlas and juice it up with that supercharger boost! yeah that'll be sweeeeeet! BTW whay supercharger system are you looking at? I've only seen one and they had to cut out a section of the hood and retrofited this ghey dome in front of the hood scoop to make it fit. do you have pics of the setup on anyone elses car (prob not). Good luck though!

They fixed that by moving the blower to the side, but I haven't heard if they've really improved it much since then. It was considered to be maxed out if you were making 240 bhp, which is just as easy with a turbo @ 6 pounds, and no less lag.