Finally!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1514&e=13&u=/afp/20041102/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_us_raids_fallujah

Sounds like they are running scared... I'd bet the exodus of cars is full of men dressed as women! Hahahahahahah what did they think was gonna happen?

Funny... when something has potentially gone wrong, such as the loss of the weapons cache, or the kidnappings, all you Bush supporters scream about how Bush can't be blamed for what goes wrong on the ground, and that instead, it is the fault of the ground commanders/troops. Then, when something viewed as positive happens, Bush gets all the credit. :confused:

With that out of the way... it's about time we kick some arse over there in Satan's butthole known as Fallujah.

-Chris

I was waiting until Iraq's first night fall after midnight tonight for this to happen.

Yeah thats really gonna win over some hearts and minds, I bet those folks are all just pleased as punch that they're liberated now!



where are the flowers and candy they were supposed to be throwing at us?

I hate these posts, fresh can of woop ass, jack ass. We wouldn't have the problems in Fallujah if we hadn't pulled out and left it to the 'Iraqi National Guard'. We caused our own problems. Don't post this **** unless you are going to head over there and open your own can, killing people sucks, but being killed sucks more

I hate these posts, fresh can of woop ass, jack ass. We wouldn't have the problems in Fallujah if we hadn't pulled out and left it to the 'Iraqi National Guard'. We caused our own problems. Don't post this **** unless you are going to head over there and open your own can, killing people sucks, but being killed sucks more

Agreed that killing sucks, but unfortunately concentrated killing can lead to order.

If we aren't pulling out tomorrow, we need to fix the mess, don't you think?

Now honestly, I only have the access to the same information as you, and I've concluded that it was only a matter of time for this to happen. Do you disagree?

This is a forum where we can voice our opinions, however repugnant they are to you. If you don't like it, go read about flowers and cooking recipes or something.

As far as the troops over there, they are doing a kick-ass job and I'd lend a hand if I could. I've been to the recruiter but cannot pass basic due to health reasons.

the troops rock, however they are in a ****ty situation. We controlled Fallujah, first it was 3ID then 3rd ACR, then back to 3ID when some trouble started then over to 1AD then to the ING. Thats when things fell apart. My support is seriously wanning on Iraq. We made some basic mistakes when we kicked off and now we may not be able to recover from them. Iraq is our Afghanistan (as it was to the Russians not the time we invaded the country). I fear the country will have chaos for a long time. Again, the troops are doing a great job, love em, been there done that got the t-shirt and a couple of other things, but we are having some serious policy issues in the country. Iraq has been a spotlight for problems the militarly has been facing for a long time but everyone was afraid to bring it up. But I digress flowers are not my cup of tea (in fact I hate tea as well). Should we pull out, I used to say no, Now I say we cannot

I fear the country will have chaos for a long time.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that this was the original plan.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that this was the original plan.

What is your reasoning behind this theory? Just curious because I don't see the benefit(s).

The benifits all go to arms suppliers, "security" and "rebuilding" contractors who make out like bandits.

That's all.

But it really is very very good for those folks, -at the expense of everyone else.

Agreed that killing sucks, but unfortunately concentrated killing can lead to order.





I can't get behind that- concentrated killing only leads to concentrated death.

^ w3rd

http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/the_sign.jpg

War didn't end slavery, laws did.

War didn't end facism, it helped spread it to where we now get to experience it first hand.

War didn't end communism either.

The only line with any truth on that sign is the last one.

I thought you considered yourself a Libertarian?

Military Policy
Any U.S. military policy should have the objective of providing security for the lives, liberty and property of the American people in the U.S. as inexpensively as possible and without undermining the liberties it is designed to protect.



doesn't say anything there about using it to eliminate competing ideologies like slavery, Facscism and communism, or even drugs or terrorism- much less stealing foreign oil reserves for that matter.

War didn't end slavery, laws did. Please cite the laws of which you speak.

War didn't end facism, it helped spread it to where we now get to experience it first hand.
Really? How do you explain that little conflict that some of the more radical historians refer to as "World War 2"?

The only line with any truth on that sign is the last one.
I'll agree with you on this point; war is proof that politics/politicians have failed both you & me.

Oh, I forgot...I'm on your Ignore List. :rolleyes:

Please cite the laws of which you speak.

Just a little number called the 13th amendment;

Amendment XIII

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


How do you explain that little conflict that some of the more radical historians refer to as "World War 2"?

WW2 did a wonderful job of disabling the German WAR infrastructure, and stopping the advance of the WAR the Germans, Italians and Japanese were waging against the rest of civilization.

In point of fact however- Fascism- the ideology of racial supremacy and corporate domination of domestic affairs that was the philosphical and structural basis of Germany's aggression, was not "ended" only went slightly underground to re-surface here in the USA under the guise of "neo-conservatism" where now "jews" have been replaced by "islamic fundamentalists", and- irony of ironies- in Israel where the Palestinians get to serve in the role of "savages responsible for all evil"


I'll agree with you on this point; war is proof that politics/politicians have failed both you & me.

This might be a first- Oaf and I actually finding common ground?!?

War didn't end slavery, laws did.

War didn't end facism, it helped spread it to where we now get to experience it first hand.

War didn't end communism either.

The only line with any truth on that sign is the last one.

I thought you considered yourself a Libertarian?

Military Policy
Any U.S. military policy should have the objective of providing security for the lives, liberty and property of the American people in the U.S. as inexpensively as possible and without undermining the liberties it is designed to protect.



doesn't say anything there about using it to eliminate competing ideologies like slavery, Facscism and communism, or even drugs or terrorism- much less stealing foreign oil reserves for that matter.

War most certainly did get rid of those things. The civil war, despite some revisionist wannabe's claims, definitely came to be over slavery. And without it, it would've persisted in the Southern states. Laws can't be enforced on unwilling parties without force.

You shouldn't insult victims of the Nazi regime by pretending that this is anything like it. That's just rude. Go take a look at some photos of concentration camps, and then tell me with a straight face that your political gripes even come close to comparison.

War most certainly did end communism. The Afghan war was the end of the Soviet world power status. It was a cascade downward in huge part due to that war.

War most certainly did get rid of those things. The civil war, despite some revisionist wannabe's claims, definitely came to be over slavery. And without it, it would've persisted in the Southern states. Laws can't be enforced on unwilling parties without force.


Slavery was one of the issues leading to the seccessionist movement that was the root cause of our civil war, but it was the seccession of the southern states that was the reason for the war and the only thing settled by the war.

You might also have a point if slavery were ever ended, but it wasn't, it was only made illegal to impose on non-criminals in the US.


Slavery continues to exist to this day in many countries around the world, in fact our protections only extend until you are "convicted of a crime" at which point you too, can legally become a slave in the USA.

The civil war did end the seccationist movement along with the lives of millions of Americas young men in the prime of their lives, because at least back then they did a decent job of keeping the battle on the battlefield- Sherman's march and a few other noteworthy examples showing a new tendency towards terror against civilians as an accepted tactic in warfare.

You shouldn't insult victims of the Nazi regime by pretending that this is anything like it. That's just rude. Go take a look at some photos of concentration camps, and then tell me with a straight face that your political gripes even come close to comparison.

I'll grant you that we haven't got that far yet, but the underlying philosophies and attitudes are fundamentally based on parallel ideologies, read up on PNAC's ambitions for world control and compare them to Mein Kompf, even a skeptic like you will be stunned at the similarities

We aren't yet doing wholesale extermination of people within our borders, but take a look at photos from Abu Grahib and Guantanamo and tell me we aren't headed there in a hurry if we don't change course. Did I see that one of the guards taking the fall for Abu Grahib is getting off with no prison time? That's justice for ya!

War most certainly did end communism. The Afghan war was the end of the Soviet world power status. It was a cascade downward in huge part due to that war.

The Soviet Union collapsed on account of internal conflicts and corruption, much as I expect the US will in the next 8-10 years.
And if you think Russia isn't a world power anymore, you need to get out more often, they still have enough nukes to play hardball with anybody that might want to take a shot at them.

Maoism still runs China, despite the veins of rampant capitalism that are corrupting their government, and corruption is rampant throughout most of the countries that made up the Soviet Union, but I bet they'll all be teaming up against us in a few years if we don't change course.


War ends lives, ending lives ends a lot of things, doesn't make any of it right.

We aren't yet doing wholesale extermination of people within our borders, but take a look at photos from Abu Grahib and Guantanamo and tell me we aren't headed there in a hurry if we don't change course.
\
War ends lives, ending lives ends a lot of things, doesn't make any of it right.

I just looked at the photos again. And I'll tell you again: Not even remotely close to the Nazis. Not a chance. Not in any scenario whatsoever. I think you need to take a look at those holocaust photos again.

Civil war: Why did the states secede? Oh that's right...they didn't want to obey the law on Slavery. Slavery was ended. Even criminals CANNOT be slaves in the U.S. You're reading syncopation's website if you believe that.

Russia: Yeah, you curiously don't address Afghanistan. What do you think ate up Russias resources and national pride between 80 and 89, exactly the period preceeding the fall?

War ends lives, and of course that's bad. But sometimes you've got to stand up for principle and enforce law. That's right.

Not to be too O.T. but I've been to the concentration camps in Germany and death camps in Poland and I recommend them to anyone. The pits, furnaces, convenient electrical wires and clean white tile operating tables with numerous drainage spouts is enough to make a grown man to fall to their knees. My Grandma was a victim of a German V2 bomb and was a witness to what happened in Europe as a little girl. I think the fact she voted for Bush speaks volumes...

Even criminals CANNOT be slaves in the U.S. You're reading syncopation's website if you believe that.

No, actually I'm reading Section 1 of the 13th ammendment to the US constitution;

...except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted...

Not to be too O.T. but I've been to the concentration camps in Germany and death camps in Poland and I recommend them to anyone. The pits, furnaces, convenient electrical wires and clean white tile operating tables with numerous drainage spouts is enough to make a grown man to fall to their knees. My Grandma was a victim of a German V2 bomb and was a witness to what happened in Europe as a little girl. I think the fact she voted for Bush speaks volumes...

I also know a woman who had a husband who was in the camps. He had the number still tattoed on his arm. She lived in Poland as a little girl when the germans invaded. She know's what it's like to be invaded and proudly voted for Kerry. So yes volumes have been spoken by both.

No, actually I'm reading Section 1 of the 13th ammendment to the US constitution;

That's irrelevant. Slavery is not a prescribed punishment for any federal or state crime. The only point of the provision practically speaking is that prisoners can be forced to do things while in prison, ordered to do community service, etc.

prisoners can be forced to do things while in prison,

Like work without compensation,


or in other words,



be a slave, and it's legal.



My only point from all this is that slavery has not been eliminated, only more tightly regulated, but like it is with so many other facts in the world, you just don't get it.

Not to be too O.T. but I've been to the concentration camps in Germany and death camps in Poland and I recommend them to anyone. The pits, furnaces, convenient electrical wires and clean white tile operating tables with numerous drainage spouts is enough to make a grown man to fall to their knees. My Grandma was a victim of a German V2 bomb and was a witness to what happened in Europe as a little girl. I think the fact she voted for Bush speaks volumes...


The majority of jews voted for Kerry. And I also have been to the concentration camps, that moved the crap out of me at a young age.

Agreed that killing sucks, but unfortunately concentrated killing can lead to order.

So...why didn't we leave Sadaam Hussein in power there? Seems like he kept order pretty damn well in his country without our intervention.

The Civil War, as several of my teachers have told me since I got out of grade school, was started and ended because the South had (still has a legacy of to this day) such a poor economy. The only people that survived in the South financially were plantation owners, as there were no formal banks in the South. Consequently, poor white people had little way of making money outside of a plantation, as rich whites were land owners that had the land worked by black slaves. The North tried to end slavery which meant that the Southern economy, supported by slavery, would crumble and the rich white folks would lose their wealth and income. Therefore, the South succeeded to protect their economical heritage of slavery and hold on to their wealth (at least the rich whites). It's funny that the men who fought in the civil war for the south were mostly poor white folks...funny in that they were fighting to keep themselves poor.

In writing this, I see a parallel between the Southern Civil War agenda and the current Republican agenda. Keep the money close to your person, make sure poor people do all the work for you and stay poor, and fight anyone who opposes your way of life however twisted it is.

Like work without compensation,


or in other words,



be a slave, and it's legal.



My only point from all this is that slavery has not been eliminated, only more tightly regulated, but like it is with so many other facts in the world, you just don't get it.

Haha, so a sentence of community service for drunk driving, say, qualifies as Slavery?! I see absolutely no relationship between the two concepts...the fact that both are enforced doesn't mean they're the same. Slavery isn't "anything you're forced to do." It's "everything you do is forced by someone else, because you are property, not a person."

This is just like your point on the holocaust.