http://www.nypress.com/17/31/news&columns/WilliamBryk.cfm

I'm not saying I love this piece. But it does make me very curious what actuall conservatives think of this viewpoint.

Bump for myself because this is article contains good points about why BushJr is bad for even the most conservative voter...but none of our resident conservatives has responded to it at all.

http://www.nypress.com/17/31/news&columns/WilliamBryk.cfm

I'm not saying I love this piece. But it does make me very curious what actuall conservatives think of this viewpoint.

Well, if you think people should stay with the historic roots of their political party, are you suggesting that democrats want to enslave the black population again?

You DO realize that the Southern Democrats were against the Republican North in The Civil War, right?

Bush has met the modern democrats half way on many "non-conservative" causes, and the current spending related to the war on terrorism is justified. This war also happens to help the economy, though I'm sure nobody wants to admit that. Anyhow, I think the American public is sick and tired of the unprecedented disrespect for the office, and they will re-elect Bush because of it.

As far as Bush has gone away from the core of his base, the democrats have gone to the extreme left, so they aren't an option either for today's republicans.
Unfortunately, some of them vote for the 3rd party candidate and waste their vote IMO.
Thanks for playing,
Hella

Bush has met the modern democrats half way on many "non-conservative" causes, and the current spending related to the war on terrorism is justified. This war also happens to help the economy, though I'm sure nobody wants to admit that. Anyhow, I think the American public is sick and tired of the unprecedented disrespect for the office, and they will re-elect Bush because of it.

As far as Bush has gone away from the core of his base, the democrats have gone to the extreme left, so they aren't an option either for today's republicans.
Unfortunately, some of them vote for the 3rd party candidate and waste their vote IMO.
Thanks for playing,
Hella

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, Jr. is the most hated president in a long long time. He also has divide this country in HALF. Good try though. This country is tired of a person that has lied to us, curropted the government, and has held his intrest above the citizens time and time again. He has also made the government BIGGER and increased spending, which is typically what Republicans stand against, in the present.

To say Kerry is the "extreme left" is stupid at best. Actually go read up on what Kerry's records are really about instead of taking everything Jr. says for face value. More of my republican friends, yes i have some, have left the republican party because of bush than I can ever remember in the past. And this includes my parents friends of course. Bush is a NEOCONSERVATIVE, while Kerry is a liberal but far from the extreme.

Good try though, please put in another quater,
Unregistered.

Some of unregistered's greatest hits about President Bush:

1. He also has divide this country in HALF.

2. curropted the government

3. has held his intrest

I'll most certainly "put in another quater!" to hear more misspelled liberal rants :D

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, Jr. is the most hated president in a long long time. He also has divide this country in HALF. Good try though. This country is tired of a person that has lied to us, curropted the government, and has held his intrest above the citizens time and time again. He has also made the government BIGGER and increased spending, which is typically what Republicans stand against, in the present.

To say Kerry is the "extreme left" is stupid at best. Actually go read up on what Kerry's records are really about instead of taking everything Jr. says for face value. More of my republican friends, yes i have some, have left the republican party because of bush than I can ever remember in the past. And this includes my parents friends of course. Bush is a NEOCONSERVATIVE, while Kerry is a liberal but far from the extreme.

Good try though, please put in another quater,
Unregistered.

Some of unregistered's greatest hits about President Bush:

1. He also has divide this country in HALF.

2. curropted the government

3. has held his intrest

I'll most certainly "put in another quater!" to hear more misspelled liberal rants :D

That's great when the only thing you can say about his post is the spelling. Last time I checked this was the political forum not a spelling bee.

Some of unregistered's greatest hits about President Bush:

1. He also has divide this country in HALF.

2. curropted the government

3. has held his intrest

I'll most certainly "put in another quater!" to hear more misspelled liberal rants :D


Great one oh super smart one. How many languages do you know? This is, drum roll please, my third language. Yep you sure got me on my spelling, you must be proud. When will morons stop talking about my spelling ability's on a forum instead of my facts.

Oh and I suggest you dispute any of those facts before you start saying its a rant. I can back them up can you back yours up?

That's great when the only thing you can say about his post is the spelling. Last time I checked this was the political forum not a spelling bee.


The only reason why I don't say anything against you, eric, is because; a) We have the same name and; b) I want a good deal on my next car. ;)

Jr. is the most hated president in a long long time. He also has divide this country in HALF. Good try though. This country is tired of a person that has lied to us, curropted the government, and has held his intrest above the citizens time and time again. He has also made the government BIGGER and increased spending, which is typically what Republicans stand against, in the present.


Who are you talking about? Clinton?
Bush won't sell out to public opinion, and that's why I love him. He does what's good for us long-term in most cases.


To say Kerry is the "extreme left" is stupid at best. Actually go read up on what Kerry's records are really about instead of taking everything Jr. says for face value. More of my republican friends, yes i have some, have left the republican party because of bush than I can ever remember in the past. And this includes my parents friends of course. Bush is a NEOCONSERVATIVE, while Kerry is a liberal but far from the extreme.


Do you even know Kerry's history? He went into Vietnam already knowing he would come out a war protestor. Hanoi John was a plotting m f'er and he continues to be a self-serving sellout today. His senate record is a sham, basically accomplishing nothing other than voting on the wrong side of history time and time again. His voting record PROVES poor judgement!

Bush may be an awful public speaker, but at least he makes good decisions. Whether or not he is getting the best information to make those decisions is my only question.

Anybody clinging to the notion that W is doing a decent job should read and consider the endorsement of The Economist- hardly a "liberal rag";

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3329802

Face it - the bush administration is FAR and AWAY the MOST corrupt and criminal group to ever take power in this country.

And you have to really be hella dumb to believe he's ever made a good decision.

Who are you talking about? Clinton?
Bush won't sell out to public opinion, and that's why I love him. He does what's good for us long-term in most cases.



Do you even know Kerry's history? He went into Vietnam already knowing he would come out a war protestor. Hanoi John was a plotting m f'er and he continues to be a self-serving sellout today. His senate record is a sham, basically accomplishing nothing other than voting on the wrong side of history time and time again. His voting record PROVES poor judgement!

Bush may be an awful public speaker, but at least he makes good decisions. Whether or not he is getting the best information to make those decisions is my only question.


Hmm wrong and wrong again Hella. You really need to keep up with threads here. I don't like restating things over and over. First let me suggest you read these posts....

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77724
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77651&page=4


To say Jr won't sell out is one of the stupidest things you have said to date. He won't sell out to public opinion but he sure will to big buisness as has been proven time and time again. He does what is good for them in the long run. I suggest if you ever have the time, go volunteer at a capitol of your state. You'll learn real fast how much power those lobbiest have. And guess who they love? Good old Jr.

I like how you said Kerry knew he wasn't going to die when he went into Vietnam. Man if thats true, I would love to have Kerry as president, he knows what will happen in the future according to your logic! Again you can't even get close to comparing Jr's record and Kerry's. You have been duped by Rove. Again show me how he has a poor voting record go look it up.

Not only is Jr a horrible public speaker but he is also dumb. The several times I have met him it was obvious that he didn't know what the hell we were discussing during the meetings. He just didn't get it. The representive I worked for was always frustrated with his lack of knowledge on things he should know. Granted he isn't as dumb as the media portray him at times, but he certainly isn't bright. And I don't want a average individual running the US. Oh and he choose those individuals so in the end whatever information he gets its his fualt.


Damn it forgot to mention your Clinton comment. Look it up Jr. is hated not only in the US but around the WHOLE world. But yeah a guy getting a bj, is way worse than a guy invading a country and causing thousands to die for no good reason.

To say Jr won't sell out is one of the stupidest things you have said to date. He won't sell out to public opinion but he sure will to big buisness as has been proven time and time again. He does what is good for them in the long run. I suggest if you ever have the time, go volunteer at a capitol of your state. You'll learn real fast how much power those lobbiest have. And guess who they love? Good old Jr.


You mean with the exception of the trial attorneys that milk the system and raise product costs for all of us, right?

There is no doubt about the impact of big business, but the two go hand-in-hand.
Would you rather have the corporations owned by the Govt like in China, or have gov't leaders influenced by the Corporations? Obviously there has to be limits, but we have them today. They are all bedfellows, and even Gore was tied to big oil. The American people knew Bush was tied to big oil and Cheney to Halliburton, and they didn't care. I don't think they care this time, either.

You mean with the exception of the trial attorneys that milk the system and raise product costs for all of us, right?

There is no doubt about the impact of big business, but the two go hand-in-hand.
Would you rather have the corporations owned by the Govt like in China, or have gov't leaders influenced by the Corporations? Obviously there has to be limits, but we have them today. They are all bedfellows, and even Gore was tied to big oil. The American people knew Bush was tied to big oil and Cheney to Halliburton, and they didn't care. I don't think they care this time, either.

Didn't you follow those links? What they are doing is illegal and is getting under investigation. So "influenced" by Corporations is nothing compared to being OWNED by those Corporations. And they are being owned by them. I won't even get into there Enviromental policies and the curroption that has been happening there. And people did know they had ties, what they didn't know is how they were going to abuse the system. And there is a difference, not all are bedfellows with the worst ones. And not all politicians let themselves be influenced. And not only will they care but I bet once Jr is out this year you will some major investigations on how they handled things.

Bush is not a conservative. At home, he's a big-spender socialist. That's what the "compassionate conservative" BS really means. Abroad, he sells out our foreign policy to "neo conservatives" who are merely hawkish liberals. But he makes token gestures towards traditional values and tax reduction, neither of which have much substance, but manage to fool a few people. It's classic bait and switch. Meanwhile government is larger and more intrusive than ever, states rights are ignored, basically every core conservative value is ignored.

The worst part is that the "opposition" (DNC) is almost exactly the same thing. They make token gestures in the other direction, but they are not substantially different. Their main selling point is "We're not the GOP!".

The worst part is that the "opposition" (DNC) is almost exactly the same thing. They make token gestures in the other direction, but they are not substantially different. Their main selling point is "We're not the GOP!".

I agree on that. We need a conservative in there and unfortunately Kerry isn't one.

Abroad, he sells out our foreign policy to "neo conservatives" who are merely hawkish liberals.


How the heck do peace loving liberals become hawkish war loving individuals?! Explain this one.

Neoconservatism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_(United_States))

Umm you should really read that whole link.... you proved my point for me.

The American people knew Bush was tied to big oil and Cheney to Halliburton, and they didn't care. I don't think they care this time, either.

Actually, they DID care. Gore won the popular vote.

I agree on that. We need a conservative in there and unfortunately Kerry isn't one.

Bush isn't one either. He has been the most liberal spending president in US History. I mean, name another president who cuts taxes in a time of war! There isn't one. He's definitely not conservative!

Umm you should really read that whole link.... you proved my point for me.

You asked a question. You didn't have a point. The link answers the question by explaining how some liberals became alienated from the "left" and became the neoconservative movement.

You asked a question. You didn't have a point. The link answers the question by explaining how some liberals became alienated from the "left" and became the neoconservative movement.


Abroad, he sells out our foreign policy to "neo conservatives" who are merely hawkish liberals.

Of course "some" liberals left the left. But it is mostly conservatives, like your link states. They are not "hawkish liberals" like you tried to say they where.

They are liberals on most areas other than foreign policy, on which they are most definitely hawkish.

I see that pretty much everyone agrees that BushJr is not a conservative. But back to the point I had in mind with this thread...does that fact, and the logic in the original article I posted, mean that some of you conservatives would rather vote for Kerry to get Bush out of the Republican spotlight (in order to get a real conservative to run in 4 years)? Or are you all just Republicans, and not neccesarily conservative.