What do you think of that number? Are the police supressing to much or are there way wo many people made at teh current administration?


This clearly isnt an issue were a minority force is disrupting the RNC, would seem to be that there is a much larger contingent of those who are willing to partake in "civil disobedience". As this is the record for arrests in conjunction with a political rally or convention.


Was curious to see everyones thoughts (that includes you hella dumb, but keep it above the idiot level please i know you can do it) from right wingers to dirty hippes stuck in a redwood.

http://www.indystar.com/articles/0/175525-3720-010.html

There are way wo many hippies!
:)

I think the protestors are doing a good job. I haven't seen any of them act aggresively yet, so most of the arrests are unneccesary in my opinion. Laying down in the street would make even Ghandhi proud. Also, it makes me happy to see that these protests, as opposed to the ones in the 60's about the Vietnam Conflict, have almost no drug use involved. Not that I'm against the occasional bong load, I just think it makes a stronger statement that these protestors are really gathering to protest what they see as wrong doing as opposed to protesting just to be involved in the world's phatest smoke out. As far as what the extraordinarily high number of arrests means...it's probably because the police and the other authorities are scared of terrorism more than anything else. I'd be interested to know what percentage of protestors are arrested compared to past protests, and also the total number of protestors in attendance compared to past protests too. I think both of those things would reveal more about the nature of the arrests than the emperical number of arrests does.

protestors are really gathering to protest what they see as wrong doing as opposed to protesting just to be involved in the world's phatest smoke out.

I agree... im sure there are plenty of tokers amidst the audience, but they seem united in their stand against the injustice of the Bush regime

This is my view....

Protest all you want but there are rules, you go somewhere where you can't, plain and simple you get arrested, you do something you're not suppose to do, you get arrested. I think the protestors are doing a bunch of immature things, you don't sneak into a proffessional meeting and then disrupt it and then create a situation that starts a fight, that's just kiddie, stick to the streets, have your signs, do it with all legalities in mind, in the end these protestors are just hurting themselves by showing how immature they are. Plain and simple, you break the rules you get punished.

I agree... im sure there are plenty of tokers amidst the audience, but they seem united in their stand against the injustice of the Bush regime

What injustices?
Please list all of the rights that you have lost in the last three years.

OK just to get the ball rolling; how about the right to have a private phone conversation,

the right to go to a library, check out and read a book without it being reported to the federal governemt

the right to consult with an attorney if you are detained by law enforcement,

the right to visit Cuba, or if you have family there- to help support them.

the right to peacably assemble as was once guaranteed in the Bill of Rights seems to be out the window in NYC, no doubt coming soon to a street corner near you.

Some of you probably don't think those rights were worth having in the first place, but seriously- whatever happened to the "Land of the Free" stuff?


That is the obvious low-hanging fruit, if you really get down to it the list goes on and on....

Injustice? Why does that term only apply to me, or to fellow Americans? Arent we the beacon of democracy, the city on a hill?

How about pre-emptive strikes on a nation on the notion that they housed huge stockpiles of WMDs? To me that is an injustice.

How about the raping of our natural resources so that we can give tax breaks to people who drive road-whoring H2s?

or the fact that sooner or later, we're going to have to pay off the $422 Billion defecit. I consider that an injustice.

Still waiting for the positive repercussions for this vast protest, dub2w :sigh:

1800 arrested out of hundreds of thousands of protestors for a lost cause and the latest polls are above 10% in favor of Bush?!

Usually sample polls consist of +/- 2500 voters and are insignificant due to the closeness of the numbers. However, 10%+ pushes that credibility envelope and people are now suggesting Bush may actually win based on the recent RNC effects, strategy and historical standpoint.

Way to go, Protesters! :rolleyes: :p

Ok, I give it to the Republicans for doing what they needed to do during the RNC. By pushing the likes of Miller and other blow-hards, all the while trying to look moderate by giving McCain and Shwarz their 5 minutes in front of the sh!t-kicking crowd, they grabbed the hearts and minds of the lemmings that are the American voters.

Oh, and in response to your above post:

- it is doubtful that the 1800 arrests actually damaged the Dems cause (as was your earlier claim)

- making assertions based on conjencture (while true to your logical framework) is, again, a fallacy.

- and lastly, post hoc ergo propter hoc is another fallacy. I assume you dont know what this means so I will spell it out for you... "After this therefore because of this." For example, the ground is wet. Therefore it must have rained.


I will concede to the Republicans taking a majority lead. But concede to your inherently flawed reasoning? Sorry. That would make me a lemming

Ok, I give it to the Republicans for doing what they needed to do during the RNC. I will concede to the Republicans taking a majority lead. But concede to your inherently flawed reasoning? Sorry. That would make me a lemming

Please explain how my reasoning is flawed :confused:

Let me spell it out for you:

1. The RNC is scheduled for late August/early September.

2. Anti-Republican groups and “anarchists” decide to protest the rally in order to a) speak their minds against the GOP, b) block traffic and deplete NYC (and local) taxpayers funds of $76million for security, public facilities and resources and c) walk in their baby-boomer parents footsteps and gain needed attention from like-minded individuals.

3. Knowing there's an estimated 250k+ strong protesting opposition, the Bush Admin stays on schedule for the RNC.

4. The RNC takes place with ground breaking speeches (regardless of Austrian time lines ;) ) while 200k protestors preach to themselves seeing how their loudspeakers only go so far over city blocks. Stories covered by the media don't cover how Joe Smith's parents protested Vietnam and how his grandparents marched on Washington. Instead, they post how protestors harassed RNC attendees in Bush costumes and managed to produce a 1800 arrest tally.

5. The RNC is heard around the world and goes off without a hitch. People are moved by the speeches given as supporters of the Republican parties ideals, not because they're lemmings. As a result, Bush's approval rating goes up to nearly 12% higher than Kerry in the latest poll & historians, statisticians, strategists and politicians of BOTH parties believe Bush will win the election because of his boldness and strong leadership traits.

So dub2w... How is my reasoning flawed on how the protestors' motives failed and possibly backfired?! Please give me a logical explanation on how the protests could have possibly benefitted anything without using the word “lemming” and beating around the bush (no pun).

To be honest, Salty, I don't know if any protests can help anymore...the world is just not open to that type of stuff anymore...but if they can, it's for the same reason that the first protest helped ages before either of us were around: getting the word out and having people show that they're dedicated to SOMEthing. Vietnam protests, debatibly, ended our involvment in that military action...Gandhi did some good things for India with protests...a wall got torn down in Germany due to some serious protests. I agree, though, that these most recent protests have been pretty useless so far...I guess we'll see in a few months...

Please explain how my reasoning is flawed :confused:

Let me spell it out for you:

1. The RNC is scheduled for late August/early September.

2. Anti-Republican groups and “anarchists” decide to protest the rally in order to a) speak their minds against the GOP, b) block traffic and deplete NYC (and local) taxpayers funds of $76million for security, public facilities and resources and c) walk in their baby-boomer parents footsteps and gain needed attention from like-minded individuals.

3. Knowing there's an estimated 250k+ strong protesting opposition, the Bush Admin stays on schedule for the RNC.

4. The RNC takes place with ground breaking speeches (regardless of Austrian time lines ;) ) while 200k protestors preach to themselves seeing how their loudspeakers only go so far over city blocks. Stories covered by the media don't cover how Joe Smith's parents protested Vietnam and how his grandparents marched on Washington. Instead, they post how protestors harassed RNC attendees in Bush costumes and managed to produce a 1800 arrest tally.

5. The RNC is heard around the world and goes off without a hitch. People are moved by the speeches given as supporters of the Republican parties ideals, not because they're lemmings. As a result, Bush's approval rating goes up to nearly 12% higher than Kerry in the latest poll & historians, statisticians, strategists and politicians of BOTH parties believe Bush will win the election because of his boldness and strong leadership traits.

So dub2w... How is my reasoning flawed on how the protestors' motives failed and possibly backfired?! Please give me a logical explanation on how the protests could have possibly benefitted anything without using the word “lemming” and beating around the bush (no pun).

Still waiting on a legitimate answer, dub2w...

Oh and here's a good article:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=926&e=12&u=/usnews/thedemocratsrealproblem

Salty, wow. You are incredibly dumb.

This is fallacious reasoning: Post hoc ergo propter hoc... this means "After this therefore because of this."

Let me bring it down to your level (while trying not to drag my knuckles on the floor)...

yes, the RNC did a great job. But your claim that the protestors hurt the Dems cause can't be validated. And your, ahem, "logical" reasoning that because the RNC is on solid footing after the convention means that the protestors indeed hurt the Dems is fallacious.

Pretty simple.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. I know those stupid Italians have nothing to offer aside from dirty cities that dont cater to American nationalists, but that language that they came up with some 3000 years ago is pretty bad arse

Oh and here's a good article:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=926&e=12&u=/usnews/thedemocratsrealproblem


That is a good article. It makes no claim that the protestors hurt the Dems in any way. Again, post hoc ergo propter hoc. Say it to yourself before you go to bed

yes, the RNC did a great job. But your claim that the protestors hurt the Dems cause can't be validated. And your, ahem, "logical" reasoning that because the RNC is on solid footing after the convention means that the protestors indeed hurt the Dems is fallacious.

I made the claim that the protests could possibly backfire (which cannot be proven) -and/or- have zero negative effects on the Bush administration (which is undoubtedly true thus far).

As a result of these "peace protest" actions, undecided voters will conclusively decide for Bush as a result.

***I’m willing to wager some beer money on the ‘million moron march’ having zero effect for the Bush administration -and- negative repercussions on the Democrats’ cause***


Claim #1 (of many): Because of the protestors, undecided voters will vote for the Bush ticket (here it comes... ready? Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc)

Claim #2: ... AND it will have negative repurcussions on the Democrats' (sic) cause


I was addressing these two claims which, to beat this issue dead, are fallacious forms of reasoning.

die

hehe... as I said before, I applaud the Bush ticket for kicking some serious booty at the RNC. In contrast to the fumbling Kerry campaign, it looks like Bush is well poised for a solid victory