Hello Everyone,
Need a little help....I currenty own a 99 E36 M3 and a 03 WRX wagon (the family car :)

I am very impressed with the WRX although the power below 3000rpm is sometimes killing me...
Anyway, I am thinking of getting the WRX STI as my daily driver and track car.
Before anyone talks about the Evo ..I hate that thing.

...I am at a point where the E36 M3 just doesn't give me the power I want...
I am looking for a performce oriented car rather than a luxury-sports car and the WRX STI seems to match this profile perfectly plus the cost is just great (except it has no radio..now that is a joke)...new warranty any everthing...etc.

Well, anyway...I would like to know if anyone here has done a similar change (E36 M3 to WRX STI) or similar...and how do you feel today about it...
Thanks guys
Siyah
PS: sorry for the long post...

Hmmm,

Unfortunately I have never owned a BMW, let alone M3. I have driven in a 97 M3 several times. It was very nice, refined and fast.

Now the STi is in a whole new consumer bracket than that M3....based upon its looks soley. The M3 is much more upscale and has less of a teenager following if you know what I mean. While the STi really grabs the attention of everyone and has the rally-race look that some people dont frequently associate with refinement and class etc.

Now myself, along with countless others could care less about what I mentioned above.

The STi's power obviously surpasses the 99 M3's(not 333hp right?). The interior is beautiful, seats and upholstry is perfectly suited to the street-driven race car ora that the STi posesses. Gauges and instrument cluster is also very appealing in the STi. Your BMW interior was undoubtedly very ncie, you will not be dissapointed with the STi.

Other that what I already mentioned, its turbo and AWD. There just is no better drivetrain combination IMO.

But these are the best 240hp I have ever driven...

My WRX wagon (227hp) isn't even close....

So I expect some serious movement towards the next turn with 300hp.

Thanks for your response anyway.
Siyah
PS: I myself don't care much what others think...actually I am not the typical BMW driver like many think :) ...

Have you ever driven an Evo. It will Murder the the E36 on the track. UMM yeah it will beat the Sti also. LONG LIVE KING EVO!!

Originally posted by Siyah
Hello Everyone,
Need a little help....I currenty own a 99 E36 M3 and a 03 WRX wagon (the family car :)

I am very impressed with the WRX although the power below 3000rpm is sometimes killing me...
Anyway, I am thinking of getting the WRX STI as my daily driver and track car.
Before anyone talks about the Evo ..I hate that thing.

...I am at a point where the E36 M3 just doesn't give me the power I want...
I am looking for a performce oriented car rather than a luxury-sports car and the WRX STI seems to match this profile perfectly plus the cost is just great (except it has no radio..now that is a joke)...new warranty any everthing...etc.

Well, anyway...I would like to know if anyone here has done a similar change (E36 M3 to WRX STI) or similar...and how do you feel today about it...
Thanks guys
Siyah
PS: sorry for the long post... ITS ALSO A BETTER PERFORMER THAN THE NEW 333hp M3. I know mine will murder any E46 that comes my way!:monkey:

Yes...I drove against a Evo on the track at my race school with my E36 M3...
And yes, The Evo did kill me from 0 to xxx and rolling start 60mph to xxx
And yes...even in the turns the Evo is quick.... although going through 'S'es ...he wasn't faster....well, at least there was somthing my E36 M3 could do as good as the Evo :)

Siyah

Originally posted by Siyah
Yes...I drove against a Evo on the track at my race school with my E36 M3...
And yes, The Evo did kill me from 0 to xxx and rolling start 60mph to xxx
And yes...even in the turns the Evo is quick.... although going through 'S'es ...he wasn't faster....well, at least there was somthing my E36 M3 could do as good as the Evo :)

Siyah Ok so you are going to consider an STI knowing, that the Evo is a better track performer than the STI? Hey to each his own. Anyway just to let you know the RS is coming out with a limited slip front dif. That should help you through the 'S'es.:cool:

Ok so you are going to consider an STI knowing, that the Evo is a better track performer than the STI? Hey to each his own. Anyway just to let you know the RS is coming out with a limited slip front dif. That should help you through the 'S'es.

Um, while the EVO may be a few ticks faster through the twisties. Its interior doesnt reflect its price and its paint is as thin as the skin on my teeth.

For the miniscule difference in road course performance, I will enjoy my better gauges, better interior, shift light, and better paint. :banana:

While I love the EVO, I think the STi is a little more reflective of its price than the EVO is. Plus STi's are more rare :cool:

Originally posted by Wrx Kila
Have you ever driven an Evo. It will Murder the the E36 on the track. UMM yeah it will beat the Sti also. LONG LIVE KING EVO!!




Troll :monkey:

Fit and finish says a lot for car...and the EVO just feels so cheap.

Get the STi you will love it. My previous car before the STI was a '95 e36 m3, and yeah most of my friends gave me crap about going from a BMW to a Subaru. But I didn't give a damn I knew the STi was the car for me once I saw the impreza facelift pics, even before I knew the cars specs. I must admit tho sometimes I miss the handling(had super stiff modified suspension) and the fit and finish of the m3, but other than that the STi beats it in most performance categories.

The evo is a great car also, but I chose the STi cuz the look suited me more. Between the evo and STi it really comes down to personal preference in my opinion, since both cars are so close in performance.

LONG LIVE KING EVO!!
Funny, I wonder why Mitsubutshi didn't even make the WRC Manufacturers Top 3 this year. Or last year for that matter. This is a testamate on build quality. At least Subaru took third. Plus I have the added advantage of taking both the Subaru and Mitsubutshi interiors apart in my shop. I'd have to say the Subaru is a better built car from the start. Both are fast and both have their strong points. But the Mitsu is not a better built machine. It's a POS inside and out. Over the years, it just wont out last the Subaru. I agree on the interior. The STi is way better. The BMW is one of the best by far when it comes to fit, finish and build quality. If they would come out with a AWD version of the E46 M3, that car would be down right awsome. Till then, the STi is the way to go. To all EVO's I wish you a :monkey:

At least somebody who is coming form a E36 M3 side...

Yeah I have similar things going one with some friends...when I told them that the STI might soon replace my E36 M3...I received nothing but dumb and sensless comments.....
....Let's see....
Thanks for all inputs.
Siyah

I raced a modded E36 M3 - it was dead even (of course he insisted on roll ons only) :) Would have obviously killed him from a stop. He must run mid 13's.... the STi only gets low 13's due to the launch..

Your 99 E36 M3 likely has no more warranty, an 04 STi does. Both weigh the same...

He's spent thousands on camber plates, coilovers, swaybars, intake, exhaust...

Bone stock STi's are handling better than the modded M3's at our BMW CCA races... an STi with intake/exhaust only (all else stock) would rule all over the place. Great package altogether. And with just intake/exhaust you will still maintain your entire warranty - assuming your Suby dealer is a reasonable..

Originally posted by hayscoob
Funny, I wonder why Mitsubutshi didn't even make the WRC Manufacturers Top 3 this year. Or last year for that matter. This is a testamate on build quality. At least Subaru took third. Plus I have the added advantage of taking both the Subaru and Mitsubutshi interiors apart in my shop. I'd have to say the Subaru is a better built car from the start. Both are fast and both have their strong points. But the Mitsu is not a better built machine. It's a POS inside and out. Over the years, it just wont out last the Subaru. I agree on the interior. The STi is way better. The BMW is one of the best by far when it comes to fit, finish and build quality. If they would come out with a AWD version of the E46 M3, that car would be down right awsome. Till then, the STi is the way to go. To all EVO's I wish you a :monkey: tsk tsk. Let me tell you someting mon. You guys with the ST WHAT EVER are all ginny pigs. Thats right G-I-N-N-Y Pigs. thats engine has not been pruven yet. As Far as not winning in thw WRC this year we let you newbies have your way. Dont get me wrong I like Sti especially in my rear view mirrors where they belong. All jokes aside I like the Sti, I love the way they do burn outs. Yes the paint is cheap. Yes the dashboard is crap. But man the car handles and it has power. BTW i can now do four wheel burn outs also. I bet my left nut that the way my car is now I can leave an Sti behind. Peace no hard feelings. If the subaru had a sunroof radio and if the seats where more supportive, and the steering wheel a little smaller and if the engine did not sound like it was breaking up I would have bought one!:) LONG LIVE KING EVO!

tsk tsk. Let me tell you someting mon. You guys with the ST WHAT EVER are all ginny pigs. Thats right G-I-N-N-Y Pigs. thats engine has not been pruven yet. As Far as not winning in thw WRC this year we let you newbies have your way. Dont get me wrong I like Sti especially in my rear view mirrors where they belong. All jokes aside I like the Sti, I love the way they do burn outs. Yes the paint is cheap. Yes the dashboard is crap. But man the car handles and it has power. BTW i can now do four wheel burn outs also. I bet my left nut that the way my car is now I can leave an Sti behind. Peace no hard feelings. If the subaru had a sunroof radio and if the seats where more supportive, and the steering wheel a little smaller and if the engine did not sound like it was breaking up I would have bought one!
Yea... ok:rolleyes: You win. The Mitsubishi EVO is the best car ever. Long live the EVO. I'd keep saying that. You will need to.

Originally posted by Wrx Kila
LONG LIVE KING EVO!

Jesus you're obnoxious. No disrespect to the EVOs, just the trolls.

1999 DINAN Super Chargered M3 vs. STi w/ FMIC, short ram, and TBE (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=469434)

If you grew up in the ghetto, mon, the Evo would seem like a luxury. However, if you have driven more refined vehicles over the years, the Evo quickly looks like cheap, econo trash. The looks alone say "Ricer". Thus far, not 1 person has called my STi a "Ricer" ride and I was prepared to hear this abuse a whole lot. I have heard the EVO called Rice routinely.

Seriously though, both are great cars, stock for stock, it comes down to driver skill at the track, as a street machine the STi is a much more well rounded ride.

If interested....
So I am ready to get a STI.. I go to the dealer check out the STI (every inch of it) ...and when I am finally ready I ask about the price..they are ok with MSRP, but wouldn't go down a dime.... so I ask about trading in my 99 M3....my 99 M3 is fully loaded with everything and has very low miles, in perfect condition....to keep it short, he offers me $23k for my car and tells me that I have to pay $12k on top of my trade to get the STI (out the door price)... well folks as much as I have come to like the STI but I felt insulted...and no way is the STI $12k more worth than my current 99 M3.... well, gotta sell the car privat first...what a shame, trading in really $ucks....now I have to wait a little longer....
Siyah

That's what dealers are all about. It took 5 weeks but I managed to get several thousand more than the trade in offer on my WRX. I decided to commit to the STI first, buy it, have both cars for over a month. Other than the extra insurance it worked out fine for me. I was able to clean up the WRX and keep it clean for buyers to look at while I drove the STI. Really it was a good selling point to have the STI sitting there. Anybody coming to look at the WRX understood why I was selling it instead of trying to overanalyze it and figure out if I was screwing them. So I had a big car payment since I put next to nothing down. If I wanted to now I could put the WRX cash into the loan, refinance with my credit union at the same "new car" rate of 3.9% and lower the payment. Instead I like the high payment ($765/mo/4yrs) and the idea of being paid off in less than 20 months (if I use the WRX cash to pay it down instead of pumping up the STI - hehe).

Oh and on the EVO thing, I drove one before getting the STI and I would have bought it were it not for the fact I will drive this car every day. Granted the EVO feels cheaper on the plastic side, but it's seats are better, it has a radio and would have cost me $4k less. The real problem for me is in Los Angeles they don't maintain the roads at all and driving the EVO everyday would have just been too tiring just like the Rx7 turbo I used to own was. Hit a pothole, hear the car scream OUCH, feel it in your body, another rattle comes up in the dash and you get the idea. The only way the EVO won't shake itself apart around here is if you lighten the springs and revalve the suspension to soften it up. Then there goes the EVO advantage of handling.

I passed on the 03 M3 for cost and I don't regret it.

Good luck

Just my opinon...i have driven a E36 and E46 and here is what i would tell you. The Subaru is more fun. Launching the car off the line is alot more fun than you could imagine, and the other nice thing is the torque, i love how it is down at 4k rpm, you mash the gas at 3k and you fly, but at 2k in a high gear there really isnt power, and as for handeling i like the M3 better, i like racing with RWD over AWD, even though AWD is more forgiving i perfer RWD, plus in my opinon i dont like the weight of the stearing on the STI, it is to light for my tastes, but that is opinion.

..Don't blame you on the '03 M3... $60k (is the going average I believe) out the door is a LOT money these days...and I don't think it is $25k worth over the STI..
Enjoy your STI...
Siyah

There's really no point in STi or EVO bashing. The are like two brothers who grew up together. One can't exist without the other. I own both, love the STi and have a great time in the EVO. They are both excellent cars in their own regards and I admire the legacies of both vehicles. Although quality-wise, the STi is definitely ahead. I've got only 1600k on my EVO and there is already serious tranny issues. They are thinking about rehauling the entire thing or putting in a new one!!! =(

i know a guy who has been driving a new C32 with 500hp and bought a STi. first thing he told me is the car felt like its lack of power below 3000rpm, which is b4 the turbo kicks in. but he loves the acceleration after that. and u'd probably be amazed by the handling even tho STi is not exactly the best handling car.

I a kid in my area had an evo went through 3 trannys then traded it in for a STi. It was really funny to see the evo sitting on the suby lot. My friend works at the dealership and they worked a deal with a mitsu dealer cause nobody would look at it they just went right to the STi.

I think the EVO is overrated, I recently dogged a new M3 all day on the track with my STI. On the turns the M3 was unable to keep up and on the long straights it pulled away slightly out of second and into third maybe 20 ft and then dead even until it gets out braked into the next turn by the STI. This is a bone stock STI. I have yet to see an EVO out there but I seriously doubt it can match that. Not to mention it anhialated the track 350Z.

The evo is second rate. The only reason that it won car of the year was that they do not pick the same make twice until x years.
The EVO was tied with the RX-8. A flip of the coin and wala. Car of the year. Just like the selected president. HAHAHAHA

Blue

Siyah, try a different dealer or something, maybe you can get abetter deal. good luck

evo and sti are each awesome cars.

But like a fine wine or cognac people will gravitate to each for their own reasons. In a race it is truely a drivers race between the two cars. I for one love the sti.

I own an STi and driving it is a freakin joy every day.

I have driven a few 2002 M3's. One with SMG and one manual.
As far as power is concerned there is not that great of a difference between the cars. It is the other things that would make the average person choose the M3 over the STi BUT would make the true serious car guy choose the STi over the M3.
The M3 just looks and feels very heavy. Heavy can also translate into solid handling and sturdy. With the M3's fun button on and traction assist off it can be just a fun rude car as can the STi at the drop of a hat. The M3 is a Luxury sports car and it excels at both. Cushy and fast. The STi is a sports car....little luxury.
It really depends what you are looking for in a car.
In my eyes the M3 wins (except for winter driving) because when you want ass stomping power it is there. When you want a quiet comfortable ride it is there. You still feel every bump due to the low profile tires and tight suspension but it doesn't thump the cabin or the passengers as much.
absolutely cannot go wrong with either choice.

I actually had an M3 on order...Then I got married....there went the M3 fund...Then came the STi.

i just lost to my freinds stock e46 m3. i have an sti stock. how can this be? i thought sti was supposed to kill the e46? tell this isnt soooo.


Originally posted by Wrx Kila
ITS ALSO A BETTER PERFORMER THAN THE NEW 333hp M3. I know mine will murder any E46 that comes my way!:monkey:

Originally posted by gofobroke
I think the EVO is overrated, I recently dogged a new M3 all day on the track with my STI. On the turns the M3 was unable to keep up and on the long straights it pulled away slightly out of second and into third maybe 20 ft and then dead even until it gets out braked into the next turn by the STI. This is a bone stock STI. I have yet to see an EVO out there but I seriously doubt it can match that. Not to mention it anhialated the track 350Z.


i just lost to my freinds e46 m3. i dont know how this can be?

yeah im pissed! will a few simple upgrade make it so i can over take him everytime. im thinking about up and down pipe, 3 inch turbo back too.

Origami posted by asianboy101
i just lost to my freinds e46 m3. i dont know how this can be?
I hope you aren't referring to street racing... :(

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0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush

maybe? does it matter at this point? i still lost....

maybe he was just a better driver than you. I mean a car is only as fast as the person behind the wheel.

Oh yeah, this forum in general does not condone street racing of ne kind. So if you post about your street race prepare to be lectured on the dangers of street racing and what not

Imprezer (Alex) on street racing (www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34010&postid=270810#post270810) posts.

We all know the dangers and liabilities of street racing but we want i-Club to be recognized as a legitimate Subaru enthusiast site, not an outlaw message board. We know that street racing occurs but we ask that you please moderate yourselves from posting such things on the boards. There's no other way we can get Vendors to participate and help sponsor i-Club to offset the cost of running it.

Thanks for your support.

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0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush

ok, well i actually raced legally.i am an scca member. my other friends said that i should have dumped it at 5k but i dont think that is too good for the clutch and tranny. i dont think that the loud thump i got from doing that last time was too good. so i was hoping that my turbo and engine will take me past him but i didnt. is there any simple mods that wont cost too much that can take me to the top against him. i did order a 3 inch axle back exhaust but i am now considering 3 inch up pipe and 3 inch turbo back without the cat too. is that enought to do it??????

The 3" catless system will uncork the STi. True engine management will increase mid-range torque and top-end power, also. Right now, I think your only choice is the piggyback XEDE from Vishnu (www.vishnutuning.com/).

Both EcuTek (http://www.ecutek.com/products/deltaecu/) and Cobb Tuning (http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/accessecu.html) are working on including the STi in their ECU reflash product line as soon as possible.

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0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush

would i need the catless or can i still use the cat aftermarket version and still get somewhat the power i need?
where exactly is the cats located on? i thought one is on the down and i dont know where the other is on the sti?

I think the STi exhaust is similar to the WRX, only freer flowing. It should have the first cat located in the downpipe and the second cat located not much further in the exhaust. Unlike the WRX, the STi does not use a pre-cat in the uppipe, saving you a time-consuming installation for this piece.

Yes, using a 3" downpipe and exhaust equipped with one or two high-flow cats will still yield power gains but you will give give up a few horsepower to non cat-equipped systems - probably less than a 10 HP difference.

By the way, while gentle rolling starts are easy on the drivetrain, 5000 or 6000 RPM launches with just a split second of clutch slip will result in fantastic acceleration from a standing start - the first time I did this at the drag strip (with my WRX), I was astonished that the car could launch so hard. I wouldn't make a daily habit of high-RPM launches but the STi drivetrain is much more robust than that which is found in the WRX.

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0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush

WRX KILA --> i see you are from new york.. you sound very confident that no wrx or sti can beat you.. let me know if you want to run anytime, anywhere you want.. i hate cocky people like u.. if u want to race for money no problem.. just make sure u got alot of mods in your car cause u ain't touching me if u r stock;)