I would like some opinions on the differences of Rota Tarmac 17's VS. Tarmac 18's

What do you like (obviously directed to those who own or have owned them)

what dont you like...


thanks

Dont get 18's... theyre too big for the car. They may look nice, but i've heard people discussing this in the past say they actually hurt performance.

Besides, with 17s you can get away with using them as snow tires too. :D

I prefer 17's. You have much more tire choices and for better price. Plus, competition tires rarely come in 18" sizes.

Get some 225x45x17's and you will be good. Thats if you have a sedan. If you have a wagon, 215 is max, if you want rub-free life.

- Alex

I agree 100% = I like the 17's = they weigh much less - - and they provide a bit of impact protection to help keep the rims straight if you hit hard bumps

ALSO - I would suggest you stock with the 225 45 17 - it is a great combo

Right now I am on 215 45 17 LM22 snow tires and it works great with my new forged prodrive GC-07C wheels

Yea, go w/ 17's. You could use them all year round, and they're lighter. Once the car is lowered, they'll look fine.

imo 18's atart to look like a cartoon on our cars.

I think 17's give the best value of performance and looks. 18's will be heavier and more expensive. The ride will also be a lot stiffer due to less side wall.

Jay

Well then.. I guess it's unanamous (sp?), I think I will go with 17's...

now to find some black 17" tarmacs... or maybe gunmetal grey...

thanks guys!!!! in a few hours the new I club has helped me more than the NASIOC has in several months!!!:)

I heard suby_dude has the hook up on rotas. Have you contacted him yet?

Jay

no not yet, unfortunatly I dont have any money to buy some rims... in about a month I will though...

but yeah on the "other" forum suby_dude seemed to have the hookups on everything.

Actually, the Super Legs 18 are as light as any 17 on the market!

I have 17's but 18's are so bling, bling yo!



:monkey: <--- missed the monkey!

17's represent the best balance of exceleration and handling. Go with those.

k2

Nice high quality 18s are the way to go! If you get a nice wheel, like a OZ SL, they don't wiegh any more. The tires only cost 20-40 dollars more each... but they look SOOO Much better.

I have had both 17 and 18s on my car, and there is absolutely no performance loss on the 18s... it really comes down to the tire more than the wheel loss... The only reason you would lose performance would be if you go with a heavy wheel, but that is true with any size wheel.

17s = Lame...

I have 18 8s currently and the drive is fine...225/40/18s no issues here....


areg

Little plug :) My 18 8s OZ sls gold with dunlops will be up for sale next week...

i agree i have 18's on order also, i have sat in these cars with 18's and it is fine, not to mention how much better 18's look compared to 17's.

im more of the 17in fan. 18's seem a tad large. but thats just me
:D

The 17" Tarmacs are already very heavy, I can't imagine how much the 18's weigh.

I'm going to be getting rims now myself. I know I want 17's, but what's the average width we're talking about. There's some nice ones I want that are 17x7 50offset. Think that's too narrow for 225 width tires?

I would have to say 98RS gold 16's baby. Yeah. hehe

But if I would say go with 17's.

some unofficial wheel weights:

http://wac.addr.com/auto/obs/wheels.html

18's always look better. 17's are lighter and tires are a little bit cheaper.

So are most people running 225 with 7.5 width rims or 7" rims?

you can do both sizes. i always like wider though.


" wider is better" ( commercial )

Go with 17's if your budget is limited...18's if money is no object.

I picked up a set of Rota Sub-Zeros for $550 shipped from Revolution Motorsports. At 17 lbs, they're just .5 lb heavier than the stock 16's. Remember, wheels are unsprung (non-suspended) weight. The more the unsprung weight, the rougher the ride. So, inexpensive 18" wheels (heavy) + 40 series tires (thin sidewall), and you're bound to have a loss of ride quality. Maybe you don't mind the harshness, I dunno. The ride quality is going to suffer, no matter what diameter increase you go with...because of the reduced tire sidewall, and increased sidewall stiffness. So, in my opinion, you should try to minimize the additional weight.

Now, if you can afford the $375, 15 lb. 18" wheels, go for it. Otherwise, I'd stick with 17's...

I have 18's and they are fine, and West Virginia roads aren't the greatest!!! im sure the ride quality will be a little better with a larger sidewall on the 17's though.

No one ever listens...18s are not absolutely better. Did any of you pretty boys read my post?

k2

ok get 19's then! these look like 19's 2 me...

those almost look too big

the larger the diameter, the larger the commensurate tire width, so in general the better the dry traction. Also, less sidewall = less tire deflection on turn in, and less chance of roll off. It all depends on what you want your car to do; less rim and more tire = less weight (yeah yeah there x brand is lighter than y brand, but within a given model, its always true).. so you can accelerate faster 0-60+ with less rim and more tire, but handling on a road course is more precise with the larger rims and less tire. Your costs will be higher with a larger rim.. waaah.. plus they look better! :)

and besides, your car will have all kinds of BLING with 18's!

http://www.t-wrx.net/carpics/march02-3.jpg

the larger the diameter, the larger the commensurate tire width

That is just 100% false information. A 225 tire is 225 wide regardless of what the diameter is. Or do you think that 225mm sudennly gets longer when the whell gets bigger?
Lol just kidding but still, the rim diameter has NOTHING do do with width, and therefor, nothing to do with traction. In fact Larger diamerter rims can actually HARM traction, due to the less flexible sidewall, not allowing the tire to conform to the roads surface(due to the fact that in most cases, when you get a larger rim, you get a lower profile of the sidewall)
That said, I will be buying 18's in the spring, as a 40 series tire is fine, if you get a decent tire. You wont lose any power, IF you dont go heavier. I have 17" P1's on my car now, and they weigh in at 19lbs each, the Rotas I am looking at in 18, weigh 18 each, a 1lb lighter wheel. I willl not lose any performance.

Originally posted by davenow
[B]That is just 100% false information.

16x6.5, 17x7, 18 x7.5.. thats a larger width.. you're not going to put a 225 on 6 inches...

the correct size tire for the stock 16" is 205/55
the correct size tire for a 17x7 is 215/45
the correct size tire for a 18x7.5 is 225/40

I see a commensurate increase in width..

The optional wheel(like my, and many wrx's have) is 17x7, the tire that comes on it is 215, But here is the thing.99.9% of ppl that replace their factory 16's with 17's go with 225's. SO if they then go to 18's they stick with 225's, making no difference in width, making no difference in traction.
I admnit, that with the 17's that my car came with, I do tend to forget that I already have upgraded wheels/tires, but while your statement IS true if you follow your reasoning
the correct size tire for the stock 16" is 205/55
the correct size tire for a 17x7 is 215/45
the correct size tire for a 18x7.5 is 225/40
But the thing is, you dont always go with those sizes. I have seen a wrx with 215 width 18's, as well as most wrx's with aftermarket 17's use 225's. so if they go to 18's they still use 225's.

I dunno. just playing devils advocate I guess

Just get some 17"s!

Originally posted by protocol_droid
So are most people running 225 with 7.5 width rims or 7" rims?

That's what I would do. I've seen people run 225's on the stock 16.6.5" WRX wheels, they bubble a bit.

Heh, those 19 inchers are hurt lookin! I think I'd go with 17's. I think they look quite nice even without any lowering (STi versions have 17's and I think they look superb). I always thought 18's didn't seem quite right for the WRX, I dunno... Just my 2 cents. Plus, many on this thread gave very convincing arguments for 17s :D

if you are looking at Prodrive springs, remember this
Prodrive designed ALL of their suspension around 18inch P1's

The brand/style of the wheel dont matter, as long as its an 18.
I myself am sticking with 17s (I think lol)

Originally posted by davenow
if you are looking at Prodrive springs, remember this
Prodrive designed ALL of their suspension around 18inch P1's

The brand/style of the wheel dont matter, as long as its an 18.
I myself am sticking with 17s (I think lol)

damn, i was about to mention that prodrive recommends 18's for the wrx. however, if the car is going to be a daily driver, i'd recommend 17s unless you can get some strong, forged 18" rims.

Originally posted by davenow
if you are looking at Prodrive springs, remember this
Prodrive designed ALL of their suspension around 18inch P1's

Hmm I didn't know that! See I've already learned more on the new I-Club than on the NAZIOC. I guess I should take all things into consideration before I make any purchases :D

As far as I'm concerned, going one or two up (in inches) really isnt going to make that much of a difference, unless u get mega heavy 18s. My car came standard with 17s so I'd hazard to say 18s would be waaaay ok. If u intend to race or auto x, whatever, just use ur standard 16s..cos semi slicks etc on 17 to 18 inch sizes cost a FORTUNE....

So what do I think...heck, just get the 18s, geez get 19s if u are so inclined, just make sure u retain ur 16s for winter or track days... :)

another problem imo is the stock rotors look silly puny inside 18's or 19's. and you cant upgrade if youre keeping your stock wheels for winter/race.

my buddy has a GTI and when he got 18'2, he ended up going back to 17's in a week because he hated the power loss.
even a 1lb heavier wheel, will make a difference, as it isnt just the weight, its how far out from the center it is

Thats true...abt the power loss..when I went to 17s on my other car (I had a Honda Civic a few yrs ago...whilst i was in 11th grade) MAN my car was even more of a SLUG..but thats going from 14s to 17s....on an already powerless car. For the WRX...I dont see a prob. ample power I say. even a GTi isnt exactly a powerhouse right?

as far as looks go, in terms of the after effects of going to bigger rims...cant do much abt that unless the guy upgrades...as for me, the standard WRX brakes on my MY02 is pretty big anyway

Originally posted by davenow
That is just 100% false information. A 225 tire is 225 wide regardless of what the diameter is. Or do you think that 225mm sudennly gets longer when the whell gets bigger?
Lol just kidding but still, the rim diameter has NOTHING do do with width, and therefor, nothing to do with traction

BZZZT! Actually, you're wrong. Let's go back to tiretech 101, with a little help from the folks at the Tire Rack.

If you were to look at a tire head-on (i.e. from the front, not from the side) you'd see that the tire is not perfectly flat on the sides - it bulges. There is a width at the bead, a width and the "center" of the bulge (known as the section width), and another width at the tread, or the "contact patch." When the number on the side says 225 - what do you think that refers to? The contact patch? BZZZT! Wrong again. It's the section width. So the section width will be wider than the contact patch. However... as the rim diameter gets bigger, (assuming that the overall tire diam stays about the same, and the optimum rim width is used) the sidewall actually gets shorter and does not bulge as much, so the difference between the section width and the treadwidth or contact patch gets smaller and smaller.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/images/tiretech/tire_dimen.gif

So technically speaking, the contact patch should get larger as the rim diameter increases. Is it noticable performance-wise? Well, YMMV, but I've always been a proponent of more rubber on the ground is better. Within reason, of course. ;)

Why would you want to run 18s or larger on a street driven car. Especially knowing how bad the average roads are anymore.

even on crappy MASS roads. I have been in a few cars with 18's, its not that bad.
Now 19's on the other hand....

Originally posted by Mach5WRX
Just get some 17"s!

yeah, after looking at prices... a light set of 18's will break the bank, then you add in tires for the 18's and it becomes lots of money for next to nill in performance gain... 17's here I come...

If performance/cost/weight are all considered, then 16x7 is a reasonable option. There are some good lightweight 16" on the market and 16 inch tires are a bit cheaper. With careful tire choice performance will be excellent. They allow 4 piston calipers. The down side is that rotor size will be restricted.

Originally posted by davenow
my buddy has a GTI and when he got 18'2, he ended up going back to 17's in a week because he hated the power loss.
even a 1lb heavier wheel, will make a difference, as it isnt just the weight, its how far out from the center it is

Ok, you will NOT feel the difference of 1lb.

To figure out rotating mass, you add up the weight of all 4 wheels and multiply by 2. So, you won't feel the difference of 8 lbs. in the car.

if u have the money, go for 18s. simply, they are going to look better. drive slower over bumps, potholes,etc.. (hey maybe bigger wheels actually promote safer driving :lol: ) as far as dirt, offroad, snow, i wouldnt take an aftermarket wheel into anything but normal conditions anyway, so just dont sell your stockers.

Get 18's because they "look better" and then drive slowly over bumps? Not the advice I'd give. I agree with many of the opinions you've heard. Get the 17's.

i am gonna go toward 18" again,

i had 18" RH back in the days, they were great on the highway, and around smooth back roads. the problem was that i hated the tires on those (toyo). then i discovered the Falken Azenis, went to those with rota 17", loved them, it was a perfect combo.

but i miss the way the 18" made the car feel like it glided on the highway.

Engineers at BMW germany say that for highway (autobahn) use you want a bigger rim smaller tire, that is why they put 18" on the M3 and M5. if you drive more around mountains roads or back roads or city, go for bigger tire and smaller rim.

beleive who you want to, i am sticking with the german's :quick and efficient. hehehe

Q

Originally posted by miked
If performance/cost/weight are all considered, then 16x7 is a reasonable option. There are some good lightweight 16" on the market and 16 inch tires are a bit cheaper. With careful tire choice performance will be excellent. They allow 4 piston calipers. The down side is that rotor size will be restricted.
Ehhh, aren't those basically what we get stock? But then again, who said our stock rims had any suck? :D Pretty IMO for stock, but then again I'd like to upgrade to 17"s sometime in the near future (hopefully)

Originally posted by QfactorRS
Engineers at BMW germany say that for highway (autobahn) use you want a bigger rim smaller tire, that is why they put 18" on the M3 and M5. if you drive more around mountains roads or back roads or city, go for bigger tire and smaller rim.

beleive who you want to, i am sticking with the german's :quick and efficient. hehehe

That's actually a really good point. I'm more a city driver for my weekday commutes, and only on the weekends to I hit the highways, so for me 17"s should be appropriate. That, and I live on hill full of mountain roads - one part even looks just like Initial D :D
As for me, I like it slow and pleasurably painful.... :eek: :D

buy some 10 lb 16x7" wheels and throw on some really stiff tires...you will gain performance in ALL areas, and be indestructable.

$.02

Another thing people haven't mentioned is that if u get 18s the brakes will look tiny compared to the larger wheel. This could be a good or bad thing i guess. Means u have more room for a bigger breaks.

IMO, generally sedans look nice with 18s b/c it fills the flared fenders well. 17s are sufficient for wagons. The style of the rim also depends if it looks better in 17 or 18s. For example the Rota Tarmacs look better in 17s since the spokes extend all the way to the outer lip of the wheel. Whereas rims such as the Volk TE37s look better in 18s b/c the spokes don't extend all the way making it look appear smaller than it actually is. Another factor that determines the look is tire choice. Some tires have a squared sidewall and others have a rounded sidewall. The former makes the tire look larger.

Performance wise, what matters is the weight an width. 18s can weigh just as much as 17s. Its just a matter of price. Many cars in Japan run 18s on the track...then again most of them are light weight forged wheels. Comfort wise, 18s are obviously going to have a harsher ride than 17s b/c of a thinner sidewall. But that has never been a problem for me. If i wanted a comfortable ride i would have gotten a camry.

Generally when i upgrade my wheels and tires i go +2 over stock. It is high enough to be noticeable and low enough without having rubbing issues. Lastly, just search the site for pictures of other cars and see what setup they're running. I'm sure you'll find many cars here running tarmacs on their cars. :)

Originally posted by AdoboUaReX
Another thing people haven't mentioned is that if u get 18s the brakes will look tiny compared to the larger wheel. This could be a good or bad thing i guess. Means u have more room for a bigger breaks.

;)

Originally posted by Angus
another problem imo is the stock rotors look silly puny inside 18's or 19's. and you cant upgrade if youre keeping your stock wheels for winter/race.

The first set of upgraded wheels I got were 18 8s yea the side wall on the tires is less but the patch was bigger since I went with a 8 inch wheel as compared to a 6.5 inch stock wheel thus the ride wasn’t as harsh since the patch was wider...just a thought.


areg

Originally posted by areg
6.5 inch stock wheel thus the ride wasn’t as harsh since the patch was wider...just a thought.
areg


very interesting. from my experience even a 40 aspect ratio
tire felt much firmer than the same tire in 45 aspect ratio...

now you're talking going from 205/55 (112.75mm) to 225/35(78.75mm) or something? That is 17mm less cousion from the ground to your wheels. hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!

that should feel completely different unless you softened up
the sus. on my tein HA's it will be a night/day difference even
with a 205/55 vs 205/50.

I would never go over 17s...18s would be overkill on the WRX, I would think.

Even more than the weight of the tire + wheel, we need to also consider that in the 18s, the weight of the tire is farther out from the center, when compared to the 17s, which would add to the rotational inertia, even if the weight of the combo remains the same.

If you're going for looks - no questions asked.
But if you're going for performance, the smallest rim that will fit over your brakes with a decent sidewall will do.

if drag racing smaller to stock is better, if your going for time attack, or circuit 18for a wider contact patch, ir your going for looks, 18's.

wow this is old. 18 inch Volk CE28N FTW!..

Heh, I just noticed that a lot of people have since left i-Club. Too bad.
Plus I also noticed that I was pretty dumb regarding cars back then haha.
:lol: