Maybe one of the tuners can chime in here. It would seem rational to me that if a car made 300 hp at the crank, but only 225 at the wheels (25% loss), then that same 75 hp loss would apply across the board regardless of modifications or power level. As long as no changes are made in the drivetrain (transmission/diff. gearing, flywheel/clutch weight), then I have always assumed that a 500 crank hp car would make 425 hp at the wheels and not 375 hp at the wheels if you express it as a 25% drivetrain loss. Just curious...

why would you only lose only an amount? imagine if the car had 50 hp, would it have -25hp? not plausible.

25% of 50hp is not -25whp. It would be 37.5whp.

it has to do with friction. friction is not a constant, it's a ratio of several factors. there's friction between the mating teeth of the gears, there's friction in the bearings, there's friction in universal joints, there's friction in wheel bearings, etc...

read here to get an idea of what's going on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction

25% of 50hp is not -25whp. It would be 37.5whp.

i was using his theory of the drivetrain losing a constant of 75hp...

i was using his theory of the drivetrain losing a constant of 75hp...

It only applies to a car (like an STi) that is making enough power to lose that amount of power to the wheels (as most STi's show on the dyno, or more).

It doesn't apply to a VW. My point was to question if the drivetrain loss between stock and modified cars of the same make/model/year was constant or variable as a percentage implies.

For those interested... here's a good link. It appears that Corvette owners may be good for something after all.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1175771&page=2

This is a very very flattened dead horse. A quick search on nasioc's archives helps to explain it. In a nutshell RussB has it- it's not a constant, therefore can't be expressed as a percentage OR a single figure like 75 hp.

This is a very very flattened dead horse. A quick search on nasioc's archives helps to explain it. In a nutshell RussB has it- it's not a constant, therefore can't be expressed as a percentage OR a single figure like 75 hp.

Hey... ran a search and found squat. Just thought I'd pose the question. Thought maybe someone would have a good explanation.

I wish I only lost 75AWHP because of drive-train loss :(

I don't really have an inteligent response to say, besides that has already been said where friction isn't a constant

Like these guys have said, friction is main reason for drivetrain losses and is not a constant. It also not an exact percentage. I generally think of it as a sliding scale but in the end its all an estimate. The only way to really get crank hp is by pulling the motor and putting it on an engine dyno. Of course no one does this and in the end it doesn't matter nearly as much as wheel hp anyway. Wheel hp is what actually accelerates your car down the road.

Another factor that comes into play is how a Dyno reads.. On one dyno you might read 280AWHP on another you might ready 245AWHP... and then on a dynojet you might read 310AWHP... to many variables come into play

exactly... numbers are just numbers. They're fine for comparing before/after but don't mean anything at all in absolute terms. Take it to the track ;)

Take it to the track

:eek: The same track you had your "incident" on?!?!?! ;) :p

Maybe he meant the one you had yours on.

Maybe he meant the one you had yours on.

My Belt broke :( I'm not ready to go back to my track yet!!

My Belt broke :( I'm not ready to go back to my track yet!!

Maybe if you at least bring a chainsaw along then the trees will feel threatened and will stay the hell out of your way this time!

Maybe if you at least bring a chainsaw along then the trees will feel threatened and will stay the hell out of your way this time!

Hey, you stop picking on a fellow STi Killer!

Hey, you stop picking on a fellow STi Killer!

Maybe you should consider changing your signature quote to something like...

"I make cars go fast & got the insurance claims to prove it."

Hey, you stop picking on a fellow STi Killer!

Besides, technically I don't think you guys have graduated to the ranks of "STi killers"... I think you guys can only be charged with maiming at this point.

Maybe you should consider changing your signature quote to something like...

"I make cars go fast & got the insurance claims to prove it."

Listen here, whipper snapper.
I've been driving longer than you've been alive and this is the first insurance claim I have filed for a "my fault" crash.
I can't tell you how many times I've been ran into.

iceman, do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for they are subtle and quick to anger.

Which applies to Paul, except for the subtle part :p

Listen here, whipper snapper.
I've been driving longer than you've been alive and this is the first insurance claim I have filed for a "my fault" crash.
I can't tell you how many times I've been ran into.

Damn... that means that you're about 45. I guess "whipper snapper" is right... I think I remember my grandfather using that term once or twice you old fart. Are you sure that your cataracts didn't act up and obscure your vision while careening through those turns?

(Originally posted by Paul@dbTuned...)

You ****** really disappoint me.

-No one calls dibs on any parts off of the carcass.
-No one calls me a ****ing worthless driver, or otherwise mock me.

I don't know what's more pathetic...My obvious lack of driving skillz or y'all's inability to kick a dude when he's down.




Paul, I'm just giving you a little ribbing.... I'm trying to reaffirm a little of your confidence in your fellow i-club members.

Listen here, whipper snapper.
I've been driving longer than you've been alive and this is the first insurance claim I have filed for a "my fault" crash.
I can't tell you how many times I've been ran into.
Thats the problem with senility(dementia).:rolleyes: You old people cant drive. Go buy a new bottle of Makers and drown away any memory of this incident.:D

Paul, when are you planning to have your uninstall/salvage day?

Tim, he owns a shop. He's probably not planning on an uninstallfest.

The same track you had your "incident" on?!?!?!

Nah... my incident was on a completely straight road with no timing lights ;).

BTW, I think I take the win from both of you for my acrobatic rolling performance without a turn in site. And I didn't even need an STI to do it ! :p

Nah... my incident was on a completely straight road with no timing lights ;).

BTW, I think I take the win from both of you for my acrobatic rolling performance without a turn in site. And I didn't even need an STI to do it ! :p


Hell no!! My Belt Idea makes it so I take the Cake on this one... No questions!! I are teh winnar!!

Nah... my incident was on a completely straight road with no timing lights ;).

BTW, I think I take the win from both of you for my acrobatic rolling performance without a turn in site. And I didn't even need an STI to do it ! :p

Sounds like somebody needs to tell us what REALLY happened, an don't blame jiffy lube this time.

At least Paul was man enough to fess up to having a temporary lack of driving skills

Sounds like somebody needs to tell us what REALLY happened, an don't blame jiffy lube this time.

At least Paul was man enough to fess up to having a temporary lack of driving skills

sounds like somebody needs to stop trolling and stirring up **** when others are just making jokes.

Nice 3rd post BTW.

Damn! This place is like the Middle East... everything gets hijacked!

Damn! This place is like the Middle East... everything gets hijacked!


Your mom gets highjacked!~

Your mom gets highjacked!~

Hey now! Let's limit the mom jokes to T-Will's.

And don't get me started on your mom, lumberjack.

Sounds like somebody needs to tell us what REALLY happened, an don't blame jiffy lube this time.

At least Paul was man enough to fess up to having a temporary lack of driving skills

There are only so many BAICers posting from Genentech. Please don't troll from there anymore and drag them down with you. If you won't link this account with your normal account, it will be trolled. And if you *did* just join and your third post was to flame another member... you should still be trolled.