I need your help... I can get a set of new Brembo BBK fronts for $100 more than the price I can get on Stoptech BBK fronts...

Honestly I don't really care which brand I get... I am Italian, Brembo is Italian... that might make the difference... but which kit is actually better?

Beyond the price issue, does anyone have any experience with one or both of the kits? I can't seem to find anyone with Brembos on their WRX...

Thanks,
FZ

If the BBK from brembo is the Lotus Kit then I would go for the stoptech. If it is the F50 Kit spend the extra $100.

I would have to say go with the StopTechs. The kit is at a great price and they also provide really good service. They can answer almost every brake question you can probably ever imagine. These guys know their stuff.

Ive heard better things about the Stoptechs as well.

Pete

Any more questions? :)

I see your azenis tires, do you auto x? are those rotors stock diameter?

Yeah, how much did it cost to get the red calipers?

brembo definately has a much higher cool factor involved.

Yes, I autox. And the rotors are 13". Its their standard WRX kit.

Red calipers are $200 extra from what I am told.

p@
www.achtuning.com

Does anyone have a copy of the WRX BBK Test that was in Car and Driver a couple months back?

Stoptech won... but I want to read the review on all the brands...

FZ

Here is the article

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/2002/september/200209_feature_braketest.xml?keywords=brakes

Juan

Does anyone still have copies of the scans of the actual article? There were some charts that are not on the web article...

Yea, another vote for the Stoptechs.

i love mine!

javier

Are the Brembo piston sizes calibrated specifically for the Subaru WRX brake system?

The Stoptech's are!

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

According to Brembo, yes they are.

Here's another vote for Stoptechs. Have had mine on the car for about 10K miles and I love them. Also have 5 track days with them (and race pads) and they are flawless. No fade. Better pedal feel. And best of all, totally consistent. There are also a LOT of different pads that will fit them.

http://www.stoptech.com/faq/data/faq19.html

i would always go for brembo, STI is going for brembo, the WRC impreza is going for brembo, most of the top of the line performance cars are going for BREMBO, also some bikes.

i think Brembo gives the car a more original look with the gold disc if u have gold wheels.

The WRC car is not using Brembos. From my understanding, the WRC car uses Alcon calipers and rotors.

Isn't Alcon connected in some way with Trust/Greddy?

Why would you go for Brembo? Just for the name?

The Stoptechs are cheaper and outperformed both sets of Brembos in the Car and Driver test. As I understand it, it's because the Stoptech caliper is stiffer than the Brembo caliper.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

I'm going for stoptechs :D

i have brembo in front... if i didnt get them at a great price i would have went with a different brand, but they are reayy nice i will post them as soon as i go out in the cold...

Originally posted by 1quikrex
Isn't Alcon connected in some way with Trust/Greddy?

Alcon, from my understanding is a British company that manufactures brake parts and stuff.

I personaly would go with Brembo's. I have driven with both and I feel that the Brembo's have a slight advantage.

128d,

Would you care to elaborate on the advantage Brembo has over Stoptech?

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

In my best motoring video, all that the STi driver (Spec C) does is complain about the brakes. The EVO VII out broke him every step of the way. Are the Brembos on the EVO different from the STi?

My vote goes to the Stoptechs...in red of course! They are nothing but awesome. Brembo is all name,...or mostly name, in my opinion.


Andy

The pad that Brembo uses is huge. The rotor is huge and stays cool for long time. It takes some time for it to warm up. Once they warm up, they stop like mad. I get dizzy when I step on the brakes at ~ 70 MPH when they are warm. Eyes almost pop and all. ;)

- Alex

I had decided to go with Brembos (same perfomance but better look and feel)... but now I got a line on a great deal on StopTechs... But the Brembos look soooo sick!!!!

AHH... I am waiting to hear back on the final StopTech price...

Damn... some many decsions so little time!!

FZ

I would rather go with the data that I read about comparing all the big brake kits. I believe that the StopTechs have better braking performance than the Brembos. To be honest, if I had to make the decision like this. I probably would have chosen Brembo because of the name. I went with StopTechs because I know a few Audi owners who raved how good they were so I wanted to try it out and I was really impressed with the StopTech kit.

Doesn't the WRC car use 6 piston water cooled AP racing brakes? (The front). The rear is 4 piston alcon system.

I always thought that the WRC car always used Alcon calipers. I believe the fronts are Alcon 6 piston calipers.

From www.swrt.com :

Alcon / Prodrive 305mm ventilated discs and 4-pot calipers front and Rear.
For asphalt use, front brakes are 366mm ventilated discs with 6-pot water-cooled calipers

Yeah the smaller brakes are meant for winter conditions for when they run the 15inch rally wheels.

I don't know.. the only reason I am saying this, is based on a few pictures I saw a few years ago (Static WRC pics), it showed the WRC car with AP front brakes... (Sometimes in the static pics, the cars don't have calipers at all! :eek: )

Yeah, but the Subaru Rally Team USA uses Alcon calipers for both the front and rear. So I can only assume that they use similar calipers for the WRC car.

any of you guys try Wilwood?? i heard good things about them.. and they seem to cost less. jsut wondering for some input thanks eric

I have a friend that is running the Wilwoods and he tells me that he likes them. The only complaint he has is just dusty wheels and having clean his calipers with brake cleaner at ever oil change. Other than that he says that they are good. They also fit under 16 inch wheels.

The Wilwoods are good, but the don't have a dust shield. But they are pretty decent brakes for the price. I personally like StopTechs tho.

As I recall from reading it when it came in the mail, all the kits were good save one that wasn't Brembo or Stoptech... but the Stoptech's were much much cheaper and performed very well. Go with them. Sport Compact Car has put them on their last 4 project cars with brake upgrades, plus or minus one Wilwood kit.

Originally posted by GarySheehan
Why would you go for Brembo? Just for the name?

The Stoptechs are cheaper and outperformed both sets of Brembos in the Car and Driver test. As I understand it, it's because the Stoptech caliper is stiffer than the Brembo caliper.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com


Gary. I think you are stating your opinion rather then fact on the car and driver tests. The Stop techs did not "win". In fact they complained about how much effort is needed to brake and if you look at the charts on the second left page you will see the brembo kits stopped shorter in some columns. One of them 16 ft if I can remember correctly. Its been a while since I have read the mag but I have it at home. Also, the very scary part about how the Stop techs brackets where pulling out or comming loose.

Stop techs and Brembos are both top line kits but to say the Stop techs "won" is not fair.

Remember, Stop techs are almost an identical copy of the Brembo caliper. There where small changes made to the caliper but it is still even labeled a "40". From what I understand the person behind the scenes (name withheld) at Stop tech used to work for Brembo...

Brembo stops the fastest cars in the world. Brembo has been around the longest, Brembo comes factory on many cars including MB, Porsche, Ferrari, Subaru, ect.. Brembo has by far more race experience as well and Brembo is recognized as the leader in brakes world wide.

Stop tech is a relatively new company and has only a few caliper choices and minimal brake kits on the market. They are making waves and making noise and people seem pleased with the stop tech kits. I think they offer a great value for the money. But in the end it is almost an identical copy of an a 40 Brembo caliper with advertised "improvements". I am not a brake engineer so I can comment on the fact that they are better... But, They are a hell of a value... But give credit where credit is due. To both companys.

CT

How much can you really make a caliper different? And in the test (I don't have the magazine) were they all using the same pads, fluid and lines? I'm not trying to knock brembo, they make good brakes but I bet alot of that money for them is going into the name alone.

have a nice day.

p@
www.achtuning.com

Originally posted by Akiata
How much can you really make a caliper different? And in the test (I don't have the magazine) were they all using the same pads, fluid and lines? I'm not trying to knock brembo, they make good brakes but I bet alot of that money for them is going into the name alone.

have a nice day.

p@
www.achtuning.com Actually you would be surprised at how much of a difference a caliper can make. A good caliper is more rigid, so more force can be applied even when it is under high-heat conditions. Some cast calipers can flex alot more then you might think. A good caliper also will release the rotor even when it is hot, whereas a standard caliper can cause parisitic loss becasue of bad high-heat tolerances.

CT a few observations and clarifications from StopTech

Also, the very scary part about how the Stop techs brackets where pulling out or comming loose.

CT the brackets did not come loose. The comment related to removing the jet nut holding on the mounting stud. When the mechanic removed the jut nut the stud starting backing out. Any good mechanic would have tightened the stud upon re-installing the caliper. We have since lowered the torque spec on the jet nut and improved the loctite application to the stud.

fact they complained about how much effort is needed to brake and if you look at the charts on the second left page you will see the brembo kits stopped shorter in some columns. One of them 16 ft if I can remember correctly

The writer noted that the StopTech kit required the most effort to lock the brakes with ABS disabled. In my view this was more of a report than a complaint. As a racer I don't want to easily lock the fronts. We also turned in the best stopping with ABS disabled. CT I don't see any data showing a 16 ft difference. The biggest difference was in the 40-0 with the $2995 Brembo kit including better pads and that was only 4 ft.

Stop techs and Brembos are both top line kits but to say the Stop techs "won" is not fair.

We beat the Brembo Lotus kit in the 70-0 and 90-0 tests and beat the Brembo F50 kit in 90-0 av. I would say we won the price performance battle. If you wonder about the 60-0 numbers remember we had our now $73 pad AXXIS Ultimate pad versus the $300 pads I believe were in the Brembo kit. If you run our kit with a $177 Pagid pad stopping distances in a 3 stop scenario will be improved in the low speed tests.


There where small changes made to the caliper but it is still even labeled a "40". From what I understand the person behind the scenes (name withheld) at Stop tech used to work for Brembo...

Our caliper is different in major ways than the Brembo caliper, different abutment plates, different pad retention, different brake pad, different caliper halves and of course our patented caliper bridge. The label ST40 relates to four pistons. Our ST10 is a one piston, the ST20 is a two piston, The ST60 is a six piston.
No one at StopTech ever worked for Brembo!!!

CT in the same Car & Driver article a StopTech Shod Viper came third in the 150-0 brake test and was the first front engine car in braking with a 3600lb Viper.

Brembo is an excellent company with excellent products. StopTech is offering a new to approach brake upgrades with our extensive development of different piston sizes for Street upgrades based on track testing. Ironically the optimum size for the WRX turned out to be the same one Brembo was using. In most other platforms our piston combo is different than the F40/F50 brake kits.

I have never used the Brembo brakes, but I do have the Stoptechs and can vouch that they are phenomenal. The C&D test shows, for the money, the Stoptechs are the best, and they're even better in some some tests, regardless of price. I think it's odd that people HAVE to try and bring the Stoptechs down a peg from Brembos. It's some sort of loyalty or status thing. I don't know. All I know is that I have actual experience with them (street and track), and I love them. To me, that's the most important test. When someone can recommend them based on actual experience.

Originally posted by AaronC
Actually you would be surprised at how much of a difference a caliper can make. A good caliper is more rigid, so more force can be applied even when it is under high-heat conditions. Some cast calipers can flex alot more then you might think. A good caliper also will release the rotor even when it is hot, whereas a standard caliper can cause parisitic loss becasue of bad high-heat tolerances.

Actually what I was saying (which rlee just smacked me down in his last post) is how much different can you make a caliper. I know the benifits of haveing good calipers because...I have stoptechs! AND LOVE THEM!!!!

have a nice day.

p@
www.achtuning.com

It is funny how people keep making statements about brand loyalty to brembo. I actually sell brakes from another company, and I find that stoptech has more people blinded by propaganda then brembo does.

The interesting thing about brakes is that there should not be discussion about, who you like better, or about who everyone else has. Braking is about physics plain and simple. Whoever has the best technology is the brake system that should be bought. Who has the most rigid calipers, who has the best fluid transfer methods, what proccess is used in making the caliper(eg cast aluminum vs forged), how effective is the pad retention or retraction from the rotor, how linear is the pedal pressure required, etc.

Well,

I think that if one was to ask which brakes are the best, there is no answer to it. Just like a question of what car is the best.

It comes down to comparing the pros and cons, taking your personal preference, possible brand loyalty and getting a kit that is right for you.

No need to fight over silly things. ;)

- Alex

The interesting thing about brakes is that there should not be discussion about, who you like better, or about who everyone else has. Braking is about physics plain and simple. Whoever has the best technology is the brake system that should be bought. Who has the most rigid calipers, who has the best fluid transfer methods, what proccess is used in making the caliper(eg cast aluminum vs forged), how effective is the pad retention or retraction from the rotor, how linear is the pedal pressure required, etc.---AaronC

Aaron, I couldn't agree more. We have done lab comparisons of StopTech caliper stiffness versus the key competition. In our tests the ST40 is twice as stiff in pressure tests and FEA analysis versus the measured competition. The challenge for StopTech as a new vendor confronted by the outstanding market leader is to get out that message. We can not just say our tests show we have a stiffer caliper. We believe that our cast caliper design with our bridge are on a par with similiar sized billet calipers.
The user community wants and deserves unbiased confirmation of our claims. The C&D article was a step in the right direction in getting out unbiased data to the consumer.

Further racers want lab claims to be proven on the track.

We will have many more racers (for us) racing with StopTech components in 2003. StopTech has agreed to be a Speed channel World Challenge sponsor and has delivered a number of brake systems to Touring car teams. These teams, including a promising Subaru team, will be running the same type of Caliper delivered with our street kits.

I will try to always keep our message devoted to the facts and if I waver blast away.

Akiata didn't mean to smack you down and I agree with your statements; I just wanted to point out the exact differences.

Thanks to the board for letting me chime in on this thread and I hope I have not offended anyone.


Bob Lee
StopTech LLC

That's ok rlee. :)

And AaronC. You are totally taking everything I say wrong. I was not saying stoptechs are better but that I do not have stock brakes anymore and do know the advantages of having a good brake system. Now lets hug. ;)

have a nice day.

p@
www.achtuning.com

Also, the very scary part about how the Stop techs brackets where pulling out or comming loose.

I just installed a Stoptech kit on my car the other day. After assembling one side I realized I had to bend the dust shield back a little and in taking apart that side I hade the same thing happened as described in the Car And Driver article. The Shaft that the Jet Nut, that holds the caliper on, bolts to came out of the bracket. The shaft had red locktite visible on the tip of the bolts, but no evidence of this on the threads. When reassembling this side I made sure to red locktite in the threads that go into the bracket.

I was informed by Matt Weiss over at stoptech that they suggest taking the bracket and caliper off as a hole, by taking the bracket off the car with caliper still bolted to it, when needing to take the caliper off. This information is not included in the instructions or any information I've seen on their site. Perhaps they should mentioned this somewhere if this is the expected procedure.

Looking at my Stoptech install directions from 10-23-01 and 5-08-02, they have backed off the torque on the Jetnut from 55-45 down to 45-40.

There is a few other holes in the Stoptech directions I think they could clear up to make installation easier on people who are not experts in brake kits.

double post.

mr. lee

one thing that concerns me about any new and relatively small company, especially regarding something as critical to safety as brakes, is lack of certification. Are these brakes DOT or more important TÜV certified?

Though not an american standard, TÜV is one of the most stringent testing standards in the world. If a component is not TÜV certified then it can not be legally installed on a car in Germany. Unlike the US, in germany one needs to have their entire car TÜV checked and certifed every couple of years. This ensures that every car is safe and functioning properly. Anyway, my point is, for something as important as brakes, it would be nice to have peace of mind knowing that a brake sytem has been rigorously tested and approved for road use by an independent institution. And testing is not just stopping distances and brake fade!

Brembo brakes are TÜV approved. I have a better guaratnee that these won't fail. In the end we only have Stoptech's word, a magazine test, and some word of mouth, that they are safe for the long term. For me, this is one reason I hesitate in going with a stop tech or wilwood.

in case you want to look into certification: www.tuvamerica.com

look into "industries served -> automotive"

This might be somewht off topic so I apologize, but with an upgraded kit (brembo/stoptech or any thing) I understand that braded break lines are very important part to the kit. I want to know if anyone here has had custom ones made or use aftermarket ones, I am looking to get some opinions since i need to upgrade to new lines in the spring

Arnie

StopTech brake lines are DOT compliant. In America this is the agency that regulates brakes and brake systems.

We have started the process of TUV approval. TUV has the first brake kit platform that we are having certified.

When you are comparing Brembo North America kits to StopTech you are comparing similiar sized companies. The Brembo North American kits are not the same ones delivered in Europe. The North American kits are designed and manufactured in Costa Mesa California. The staff there designs the hats and brackets and subcontracts the work to a local machine shop. The calipers and rotors are made in Italy by Brembo S.p.A.

The Brembo North America brake kits are not designed by the same engineers that design Formula one brake systems and are not manufacted in Italy.

StopTech designs our brake systems in Torrance California and manufactures all the Calipers, hats, brackets and brake lines in our facility using our CNC equiptment. We are laying in the groundwork at Torrance to become an ISO registered supplier. StopTech supplies private label products to a division of a major automotive manufacturer and has passed their on site inspection.

Brembo North America is currently providing stainless steel brake lines manufactured by Goodrich USA.

To my knowledge we are the only brake line manufacturer testing each brake 100% to 4500psi (this test is not required by DOT for each line). The stainless steel lines are one of the most critical parts of a brake kit. I would like to see other companies doing this same 100% testing. StopTech also tests each Caliper to 2600 psi. TUV does not require this level of testing.

I am confident that we will soon be TUV certified.

That is great to hear! You can count me in when I look into a big brake kit later this year. Its great to know that beyond the great reviews your kits have gotten that you are taking extra steps to get worldwide type certification (ISO, TÜV, etc.) . It adds a huge level of confidence to the consumer as well as opens your potential markets. Once you receive these certifications I will be the first to start peddling your wares on the German Impreza GT club (they are pretty much the central hub for info for Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Holland, N. Italy and some of France). Up until now the only real option has been the MovIt or Brembo kits for an upgrade. I hope you'll be able to maintain your competitive price edge over these companies when you start to sell big in Europe. Its also important for me as I will eventually move back to Germany and I want to use your brakes. (Ah ha! my secret motivation behind this whole TÜV post!)

Great work StopTech!

Very interesting background info about Brembo. Thanks for the insider view.

I tend to believe that both the Brembo's and the Stoptech are exellent setups. I was going to go with the Stoptechs, until I came across a deal that was too good to resist on the Brembo Golds.

I wish that Stoptech would make a rear 2 pot oversize caliper to rival the STi Brembo rears.

Just had the Stoptech's installed on the WRX about a month ago and can tell there's a great improvement over the stock setup. Plus, they look good too!

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=646054

I had Brembo's installed on the BMW at about the same time, but haven't had a chance to break them in all the way. First impression is that they squeak like a mother! But, they also look damn cool!

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=646046

I think Stoptech would be better for the same amount of money.

kinda off topic, anyone here have alcon brakes?since most race car use them

I am looking at getting some Advan RG 17x7.5 with an offset .48 and I don't know if the Stoptech big brake system will fit or not. Does anyone know if they will work together. Please let me know

My Brembos have just recently bedded in, and dude...they are smoooooooth and stroooooooonnnnnnggggg! I love them!

Andy

Originally posted by BADWRX
My Brembos have just recently bedded in, and dude...they are smoooooooth and stroooooooonnnnnnggggg! I love them!

Andy

How long did it take to bed in?

A couple of days. They were crappy at first, but now, they are as smooth as silk, and as strong as a 20 mule team. :D

Originally posted by BADWRX
A couple of days. They were crappy at first, but now, they are as smooth as silk, and as strong as a 20 mule team. :D

Did you notice any more squealing or has that gone away completely?